Coronavirus Thread

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, Otis said:

I can see 7 people in this photo wearing a mask. Probably more to do with pollution than respiratory diseases. 

Jeez Otis, you really can be hard work at times. Did you not see the date? That's precisely why I chose an image from 2015. It's solely to do with pollution, that's my point. Facemasks were worn publicly before the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic, Chinese students at the university I work at have worn them on or around campus for years, so have cyclists, so have I - particularly when riding around London, and will continue to do so. I would also wear one at a bus stop depending upon where it was. Marylebone is a toxic soup. Similarly, there are some notoriously bad parts of Leicester with dismal air quality. I've made this point before when people deride others for wearing masks/respirators, why wouldn't you in an urban environment? 

 

Regarding Covid, in poorly ventilated confined areas I will probably start to do so again...if that's ok with some on here. 

 

 

[Otis]

18 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Jeez Otis, you really can be hard work at times. Did you not see the date? That's precisely why I chose an image from 2015. It's solely to do with pollution, that's my point. Facemasks were worn publicly before the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic, Chinese students at the university I work at have worn them on or around campus for years, so have cyclists, so have I - particularly when riding around London, and will continue to do so. I would also wear one at a bus stop depending upon where it was. Marylebone is a toxic soup. Similarly, there are some notoriously bad parts of Leicester with dismal air quality. I've made this point before when people deride others for wearing masks/respirators, why wouldn't you in an urban environment? 

 

Regarding Covid, in poorly ventilated confined areas I will probably start to do so again...if that's ok with some on here. 

 

 

Yes, I saw the date and totally get the context. I was pointing out that even in this photo it's the minority wearing masks. 

When I see folks wearing masks while walking around outside in rural areas I shake my head and feel sad that the government have done that good a job of scaring people that these people still feel the need to restrict their lives.

[SpacedX]

7 minutes ago, Otis said:

Yes, I saw the date and totally get the context. I was pointing out that even in this photo it's the minority wearing masks. 

When I see folks wearing masks while walking around outside in rural areas I shake my head and feel sad that the government have done that good a job of scaring people that these people still feel the need to restrict their lives.

Well if you got the context/intent of my post, then why did you say this?

 

39 minutes ago, Otis said:

 Probably more to do with pollution than respiratory diseases. 

 

In the case of cities such as Shanghai and Beijing It would be very easy to have routinely found an image from the last decade in which 100% of the people in photograph are wearing facemasks - I simply posted the first one I came across. 

 

In all honesty, how often do you see people wearing a facemask outside in rural areas? I can't recall that I have, very possibly though during guidelines. Perhaps they are heading inside, or have just left a building and prefer to keep it on? It may simply be a false sense of security, but ultimately reassuring and not at all restrictive. If however you are referring to a country park or the middle of a field, then yes, that is quite sad, but again, they may have their reasons - I knew someone that wore a facemask annually since childhood to protect against pollen. 

 

Like I said, depending where I am, I may also wear a respirator at a bus stop, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Covid in spite of what people may think or if it looks 'silly' to some. That was the original point. I have worn one on the Victoria line for years. Filthiest line on the entire tube network.

 

Given the emergent double act of BA.4 and BA.5 I will likely now do so on all public transport and poorly ventilated areas due to coronavirus (but that wasn't the point of my post). Regarding covid, I don't have to justify my decision, but really don't want to contract it again nor give it to someone else and the protestations and insistence to the contrary over a football forum that the wearing of facemasks doesn't bear any relationship to reducing the spread of a respiratory virus are as irrelevant to me as they are to reality and scientific fact. 

[Otis]

25 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Well if you got the context/intent of my post, then why did you say this?

 

 

In the case of cities such as Shanghai and Beijing It would be very easy to have routinely found an image from the last decade in which 100% of the people in photograph are wearing facemasks - I simply posted the first one I came across. 

 

In all honesty, how often do you see people wearing a facemask outside in rural areas? I can't recall that I have, very possibly though during guidelines. Perhaps they are heading inside, or have just left a building and prefer to keep it on? It may simply be a false sense of security, but ultimately reassuring and not at all restrictive. If however you are referring to a country park or the middle of a field, then yes, that is quite sad, but again, they may have their reasons - I knew someone that wore a facemask annually since childhood to protect against pollen. 

 

Like I said, depending where I am, I may also wear a respirator at a bus stop, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Covid in spite of what people may think or if it looks 'silly' to some. That was the original point. I have worn one on the Victoria line for years. Filthiest line on the entire tube network.

 

Given the emergent double act of BA.4 and BA.5 I will likely now do so on all public transport and poorly ventilated areas due to coronavirus (but that wasn't the point of my post). Regarding covid, I don't have to justify my decision, but really don't want to contract it again nor give it to someone else and the protestations and insistence to the contrary over a football forum that the wearing of facemasks doesn't bear any relationship to reducing the spread of a respiratory virus are as irrelevant to me as they are to reality and scientific fact. 

Honestly, I live in a semi-rural location & almost daily I see folks, admittedly mainly the older generation but some far younger. Only yesterday our local ads book was delivered by a lady wearing a mask. 

[SpacedX]

40 minutes ago, Otis said:

Honestly, I live in a semi-rural location & almost daily I see folks, admittedly mainly the older generation but some far younger. Only yesterday our local ads book was delivered by a lady wearing a mask. 

Perhaps she had halitosis? 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-64347085

 

China have got this so wrong, and it's terrible to see the consequences.

 

As an aside, I wonder if any of the "lab leak" adherents earlier in this thread still think China had a hand in loosing this upon the world, given what's happening to them now?

[Jon the Hat]

56 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-64347085

 

China have got this so wrong, and it's terrible to see the consequences.

 

As an aside, I wonder if any of the "lab leak" adherents earlier in this thread still think China had a hand in loosing this upon the world, given what's happening to them now?

Wrong for those dying, right for the Chinese economy.  Sadly only one winner when it comes to CCP decision making.

[leicsmac]

17 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Wrong for those dying, right for the Chinese economy.  Sadly only one winner when it comes to CCP decision making.

I'm not sure the stress of countless people dying and needing medical treatment will end up being a net plus for the Chinese economy tbh.

 

As Sollozo would say, "blood is a big expense".

[Jon the Hat]

21 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm not sure the stress of countless people dying and needing medical treatment will end up being a net plus for the Chinese economy tbh.

As Sollozo would say, "blood is a big expense".

They want to show they are open for business to the world.  Xi will have his pivot whatever the cost.

[leicsmac]

22 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

They want to show they are open for business to the world.  Xi will have his pivot whatever the cost.

I guess we'll see how it all pans out.

[grobyfox1990]

3 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-64347085

 

China have got this so wrong, and it's terrible to see the consequences.

 

As an aside, I wonder if any of the "lab leak" adherents earlier in this thread still think China had a hand in loosing this upon the world, given what's happening to them now?

I’m not a lab leak nut job / but at the start of the pandemic they did clearly prosper against their agenda, rapidly. Now mismanagement 3 years on mean they are not. We in the uk should be very used a good plan being idly looked after. 
 

Also this is a typical bbc article with very little fact but a collection of anecdotes. ‘Yangs village funeral parlour is busy’ does not automatically equal China are f4cked long term 

[kenny]

59 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I’m not a lab leak nut job / but at the start of the pandemic they did clearly prosper against their agenda, rapidly. Now mismanagement 3 years on mean they are not. We in the uk should be very used a good plan being idly looked after. 
 

Also this is a typical bbc article with very little fact but a collection of anecdotes. ‘Yangs village funeral parlour is busy’ does not automatically equal China are f4cked long term 

It's almost as if they were already experimenting with vaccines in some sort of lab prior to the outbreak. Unfortunately it appears as though this virus mutated quicker than planned. Speculation of course.

 

Also speculation that party members in China will be fully dosed up with Pfizer rather than their own version.

[VLC86]

1 hour ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I’m not a lab leak nut job / but at the start of the pandemic they did clearly prosper against their agenda, rapidly. Now mismanagement 3 years on mean they are not. We in the uk should be very used a good plan being idly looked after. 
 

Also this is a typical bbc article with very little fact but a collection of anecdotes. ‘Yangs village funeral parlour is busy’ does not automatically equal China are f4cked long term 

I guess you mean the theory that it was deliberately leaked which I don’t think is the case but I find it mind blowing that people don’t find it plausible it originated from a lab a few hundred yards away from where it was claimed to have started.

[Lionator]

27 minutes ago, kenny said:

It's almost as if they were already experimenting with vaccines in some sort of lab prior to the outbreak. Unfortunately it appears as though this virus mutated quicker than planned. Speculation of course.

 

Also speculation that party members in China will be fully dosed up with Pfizer rather than their own version.

They weren’t experimenting with vaccines. They have a lab (WIV) which studies coronaviruses in bats. 
 

It either did escape by mistake or it was just an unfortunate coincidence it was circulated in Wuhan. 

[Lionator]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-64347085

 

China have got this so wrong, and it's terrible to see the consequences.

 

As an aside, I wonder if any of the "lab leak" adherents earlier in this thread still think China had a hand in loosing this upon the world, given what's happening to them now?

They had to eventually open up and disquiet was starting to happen amongst the people. The mistake they made was not getting vaccine’s to everyone. It’ll sound terrible numbers but even 0.1% of people dying of covid will be a very large number in a country of over 1 billion. Plus most western reporting of China is negative these days as it is a geopolitical and economic threat.

[filbertway]

14 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

I guess you mean the theory that it was deliberately leaked which I don’t think is the case but I find it mind blowing that people don’t find it plausible it originated from a lab a few hundred yards away from where it was claimed to have started.

I'm in the same boat. I'm not sure how it isn't considered one of the most logical theories.

 

Edited to say, I also don't think it would have happened deliberately as that makes no sense.

Edited 25 January 2023 by filbertway

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I’m not a lab leak nut job / but at the start of the pandemic they did clearly prosper against their agenda, rapidly. Now mismanagement 3 years on mean they are not. We in the uk should be very used a good plan being idly looked after. 
 

Also this is a typical bbc article with very little fact but a collection of anecdotes. ‘Yangs village funeral parlour is busy’ does not automatically equal China are f4cked long term 

Certainly hear you on the first part, but AFAIC what is happening now is all the evidence I need - if someone is smart enough to engage in this conspiracy, they're smart enough to plan for this and not let this happen as a possible consequence.

 

39 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

I guess you mean the theory that it was deliberately leaked which I don’t think is the case but I find it mind blowing that people don’t find it plausible it originated from a lab a few hundred yards away from where it was claimed to have started.

 

38 minutes ago, Lionator said:

They weren’t experimenting with vaccines. They have a lab (WIV) which studies coronaviruses in bats. 
 

It either did escape by mistake or it was just an unfortunate coincidence it was circulated in Wuhan. 

This is right.

 

36 minutes ago, Lionator said:

They had to eventually open up and disquiet was starting to happen amongst the people. The mistake they made was not getting vaccine’s to everyone. It’ll sound terrible numbers but even 0.1% of people dying of covid will be a very large number in a country of over 1 billion. Plus most western reporting of China is negative these days as it is a geopolitical and economic threat.

Yep, that's about right.

 

Another reason for me to think there's no conspiracy here, just (at worst) a horrible accident.

[grobyfox1990]

40 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

I guess you mean the theory that it was deliberately leaked which I don’t think is the case but I find it mind blowing that people don’t find it plausible it originated from a lab a few hundred yards away from where it was claimed to have started.

Yeh I agree with you. It’s plausible for sure. But not for me, although I’m also not a nut job who dismisses those of the lab leak persuasion. If you look hard enough there’s almost daily episodes of human suffering due to over impeding into nature. This is another one of those episodes. Those who think it’s a lab leak jobby are covering up for the fact our policymakers underinvested in resilience spending for a generation, and got what’s coming to them with covid 

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Yeh I agree with you. It’s plausible for sure. But not for me, although I’m also not a nut job who dismisses those of the lab leak persuasion. If you look hard enough there’s almost daily episodes of human suffering due to over impeding into nature. This is another one of those episodes. Those who think it’s a lab leak jobby are covering up for the fact our policymakers underinvested in resilience spending for a generation, and got what’s coming to them with covid 

Very much so.

 

And it's almost like the scientific community has been warning about the consequences of such impedances for a very long time. Funny, that.

[grobyfox1990]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Very much so.

 

And it's almost like the scientific community has been warning about the consequences of such impedances for a very long time. Funny, that.

And to blow my own industry's trumpet, the finance community has been, and still is, pressuring policymakers to invest invest and then invest again into resilience infrastructure. It makes good business sense.

[yorkie1999]

16 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I'm in the same boat. I'm not sure how it isn't considered one of the most logical theories.

 

Edited to say, I also don't think it would have happened deliberately as that makes no sense.

Because some people, powerful people,  like to have an agenda, so in order to dismiss the agenda, other people have to dismiss their views. The phrase the virus leaked from a lab in china becomes the virus was leaked from a lab in china and all of a sudden we're blaming the chinese. It's obvious it came from china, and i suspect it was an accident, someone who worked at the reseach lab in wuhan probably caught it and passed it on, but in our modern world accidents don't happen and there's always someone to blame.  One things for certain though, the whole world population are now experts on viruses and r numbers and shoving things up your nose and down your throat till you gagged and all that boring  bollocks, and we'll look back on it all and tell our grandkids about the great pandemic of 2020 and how we were all locked up in our homes whilst the government paid our wages and our mobile phones warned us not to talk to the next door neighbour because their phone had told your phone that they might be ill and you had to lock your mrs in a bedroom, or the garage, for 10 days, and how the kids learnt to manipulate a home test with a can of coke and a lemon so they could get 2 weeks off school! mental.

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

And to blow my own industry's trumpet, the finance community has been, and still is, pressuring policymakers to invest invest and then invest again into resilience infrastructure. It makes good business sense.

Yep, I daresay they have. Disaster and human suffering as a result of nature is more of an expense than a profit most often, after all (though perhaps more human caused suffering is a bit different in that regard).

 

We need to be ready for what is coming.

[SpacedX]

3 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

I guess you mean the theory that it was deliberately leaked which I don’t think is the case but I find it mind blowing that people don’t find it plausible it originated from a lab a few hundred yards away from where it was claimed to have started.

 

2 hours ago, filbertway said:

I'm in the same boat. I'm not sure how it isn't considered one of the most logical theories.

 

Edited to say, I also don't think it would have happened deliberately as that makes no sense.

And meanwhile it couldn't possibly be anything whatsoever to do with that f**k off 50,000 m2 wet market and second largest seafood market in China that you chose to ignore - located right next to it, half a mile from the station and directly in the middle of one of the city's largest residential areas? A place in which stalls are practically on top of each other, the aisles are narrow and close proximity, livestock brought in from the surrounding province were kept alongside wild animals and dead produce, and slaughtered and their carcasses skinned.  

 

Although a 'lab leak' is technically conceivable, there is no evidence whatsoever in support of this. All the available findings and data point to a zoonotic leap which possibly occurred outside the city but the Huanan Market became the epicentre of the spread. 

[filbertway]

21 minutes ago, Line-X said:

 

And meanwhile it couldn't possibly be anything whatsoever to do with that f**k off 50,000 m2 wet market and second largest seafood market in China that you chose to ignore - located right next to it, half a mile from the station and directly in the middle of one of the city's largest residential areas? A place in which stalls are practically on top of each other, the aisles are narrow and close proximity, livestock brought in from the surrounding province were kept alongside wild animals and dead produce, and slaughtered and their carcasses skinned.  

 

Although a 'lab leak' is technically conceivable, there is no evidence whatsoever in support of this. All the available findings and data point to a zoonotic leap which possibly occurred outside the city but the Huanan Market became the epicentre of the spread. 

With all due respect, given China had basically a 2/3 month head start on this, I'd say it'd be incredibly naive to think that they wouldn't be able to cover their tracks and tie off any loose ends. It's also really in nobodies best interest for it to come out that something like this could leak from a lab.

 

Could a zoonotic leap not happen inside a lab where they're testing animals with viruses? 

 

Assuming it is from market, or a similar market. Is this a real freak occurrence, or would we not expect this type of thing to happen a lot more regularly in china due to the really poor health and safety standards over there?

 

I'm just not willing to accept lack of evidence of a lab leak being the cause in China. They can quite easily make people or evidence disappear. I swear they literally sealed people in buildings

 

Let's not forget Peng Shuai who had the audacity to claim she had been sexually assaulted by someone in government before randomly disappearing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Peng_Shuai

 

I hope one day there is a definitive answer that is agreed upon by scientists world wide that requires no government/pharma input.

[VLC86]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

 

And meanwhile it couldn't possibly be anything whatsoever to do with that f**k off 50,000 m2 wet market and second largest seafood market in China that you chose to ignore - located right next to it, half a mile from the station and directly in the middle of one of the city's largest residential areas? A place in which stalls are practically on top of each other, the aisles are narrow and close proximity, livestock brought in from the surrounding province were kept alongside wild animals and dead produce, and slaughtered and their carcasses skinned.  

 

Although a 'lab leak' is technically conceivable, there is no evidence whatsoever in support of this. All the available findings and data point to a zoonotic leap which possibly occurred outside the city but the Huanan Market became the epicentre of the spread. 

Is there any evidence to support your view either? Both opinions based on speculation.