Coronavirus Thread

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Day 12 of Corona and STILL testing positive and feeling like shite!

Really got the fookin thing this time! 
Be careful FT chums. It’s still active and still nasty 

Sorry to hear mate. I remember you saying recently that you were being treated for cancer, so maybe weaker immune system? I had a friend who was being treated for cancer during the first couple of years and couldn't do anything or go anywhere until the vaccines were rolled out and then some.

 

Sorry, this post doesn't help, but keep hanging in. Lee Cattermole would be nothing without you 

Edited 30 April 2023 by Trav Le Bleu

[Md9]

The mrs has tested positive today after her dad had last week and he had taken her to work and back last weekend. She is supposed to be going to America on the 15th so that could be a problem now 🙈 only a sore throat and a bit of a headache at the minute as was very tired yesterday . Sons birthday tomorrow as well so bit of bad timing all round 🙈

[Daggers]

Wife brought it back from hospital the other week so I had to cry off football last Friday. A secondhand car salesman/loan shark proceeds to tell me on football WhatsApp that it was never real and all nurses agree with him.

 

Seriously think I ought to be able to kill people like that.

[simFox]

Well it's becoming pretty conclusive. 

 

Wuhan lab leak

Lockdowns a total failure and should never happen again. Even Chris Witty making some epic back pedalling!

 

Right at the start of the thread, when it kicked off, right about Brazil, right about the source.

 

Look a few pages back and certain people still posting BBC proof of a zoonotic spill over and justifying lockdowns. Even after books have been published, FBI even saying it was the lab now!

 

Nice to be on the right side of history though.

 

 

[leicsmac]

37 minutes ago, simFox said:

Well it's becoming pretty conclusive. 

 

Wuhan lab leak

Lockdowns a total failure and should never happen again. Even Chris Witty making some epic back pedalling!

 

Right at the start of the thread, when it kicked off, right about Brazil, right about the source.

 

Look a few pages back and certain people still posting BBC proof of a zoonotic spill over and justifying lockdowns. Even after books have been published, FBI even saying it was the lab now!

 

Nice to be on the right side of history though.

 

 

... is any of this going to be substantiated or is it just assertion dressed as fact?

 

NB. It would be interesting to have a look at Brazils total body count now - the ones that were actually recorded, anyway.

[Sparrowhawk]

51 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

... is any of this going to be substantiated or is it just assertion dressed as fact?

Hmm... I wonder...

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

... is any of this going to be substantiated or is it just assertion dressed as fact?

 

NB. It would be interesting to have a look at Brazils total body count now - the ones that were actually recorded, anyway.

It’s become conclusive, apparently, that’s all anyone with a tinfoil hat needs. The evidence is real, it just goes to a different school.

[st albans fox]

I think you’ll find that history has a funny way of removing context and the ‘reality’ of the situation. 

 

it’s a bit like the dentist - at the time it’s dreadful but a couple weeks later you wonder what the fuss was about. Until you’re at the dentist again !! 

in a couple more years time it will be possible to view excess deaths across all countries - but even then you can’t really compare all -  apples and oranges - a society that is generally living in warmth and outside is very different than to n Europe. The general state of the population regarding fitness and obesity v relevant. 

even in the states they are looking at Florida against n democrat states - but the lifestyle in Florida is so different being outside so much more. 
 

there is absolutely no doubt that the first lockdown was essential - but when we analyse excess deaths across the decade, we may well decide that we’d have been better off taking tens of thousands of deaths per day because unintended consequences of lockdown have just pushed all those deaths back a few years. 
 

but we are seeing evidence of diabetes type 1 spiking post covid infection - no one can prove what didn’t happen ….. the theorists will write history as they wish to 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, simFox said:

Well it's becoming pretty conclusive. 

 

Wuhan lab leak

Lockdowns a total failure and should never happen again. Even Chris Witty making some epic back pedalling!

 

Right at the start of the thread, when it kicked off, right about Brazil, right about the source.

 

Look a few pages back and certain people still posting BBC proof of a zoonotic spill over and justifying lockdowns. Even after books have been published, FBI even saying it was the lab now!

 

Nice to be on the right side of history though.

 

 

And we finished 17th ?  Can you make that fact too ?? 

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

... is any of this going to be substantiated or is it just assertion dressed as fact?

 

NB. It would be interesting to have a look at Brazils total body count now - the ones that were actually recorded, anyway.

There was a survey of excess deaths done during the pandemic (done by an American university) that showed at that time that Brazil (run by a nutter who didn't believe covid existed) had lower excess deaths than Peru (strictest lockdown on the continent).  I suspect that the view that lockdown wasn't severe enough to stop the spread of the disease, because too many people were still moving about freely (half the country locked down, the other half bringing stuff to their doors!), is correct.  After all, even Chinese style lockdown wasn't enough to stop the spread of the disease.  

 

Hopefully the covid committee will assess the lockdown evidence and come to a conclusion as what they should have done for best results.  I'm not too bothered about who was at fault for the mistakes, what we need is a detailed description of what was done wrong and what should be done next time.

[OwnGoal]

Lockdowns were always struggling to have the sort of positive results its supporters expected as you couldn’t successfully lock down the vast majority of really vulnerable people. The people in hospitals and care homes etc who needed daily support and treatments.  They weren’t being treated by people who were forever locked in a sterile environment safely away from the virus.  They were being treated by people who had to transport to them, mix with others in their workplaces and shop for themselves. It was easily apparent from the very early stages that no matter what restrictions you put on the fit and healthy workforce you couldn’t stop the virus from getting into hospitals and care homes to kill them people who were at risk from the virus.

[simFox]

If you really think after all the evidence that it wasn't started in the Wuhan lab, you are seriously deluded.

 

The evidence is compelling.

 

The lack of evidence for a spillover the same.

 

They even knew it was an engineered virus from day 1!

[Zear0]

15 minutes ago, simFox said:

If you really think after all the evidence that it wasn't started in the Wuhan lab, you are seriously deluded.

 

The evidence is compelling.

 

The lack of evidence for a spillover the same.

 

They even knew it was an engineered virus from day 1!

 

 

Who's "they"?

[Daggers]

9 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Who's "they"?

 

[HighPeakFox]

If you repeat a lie often enough, or indeed it is repeated to you often enough, it will eventually be believed. 

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

There was a survey of excess deaths done during the pandemic (done by an American university) that showed at that time that Brazil (run by a nutter who didn't believe covid existed) had lower excess deaths than Peru (strictest lockdown on the continent).  I suspect that the view that lockdown wasn't severe enough to stop the spread of the disease, because too many people were still moving about freely (half the country locked down, the other half bringing stuff to their doors!), is correct.  After all, even Chinese style lockdown wasn't enough to stop the spread of the disease.  

 

Hopefully the covid committee will assess the lockdown evidence and come to a conclusion as what they should have done for best results.  I'm not too bothered about who was at fault for the mistakes, what we need is a detailed description of what was done wrong and what should be done next time.

Having a look at this, Brazil has had far more deaths than Peru, but of course one has to be sure about the reliability of the data and Brazil has a far bigger population than Peru anyway. I'll certainly agree that a badly executed lockdown is no better than none at all, but there's a reason that a lot of nations who actually took the thing seriously (and had the resources to do so) had a lower body count.

 

In any case, I was referring more to that the thing definitely came from a lab, the lockdowns definitely didn't work, Brazil definitely had a good time exactly when the OP said they would, and all of this being stared as if is it a scientific fact like the Earth being an oblate spheroid. That's a hell of a lot to say without any substantation from any source, let alone a reliable one, whatsoever.

 

 

14 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

If you repeat a lie often enough, or indeed it is repeated to you often enough, it will eventually be believed. 

Quite.

 

And when such lies become matters of political policy, they become dangerous - simply because the natural world does not suffer lies, and its punishments are often harsh.

 

That's why I don't get why folks get into human conspiracies regarding events that involve a heavy amount of nature, because they are simply beyond human control and as such there is no value to engaging in them if the objective is control.

[dsr-burnley]

I agree there is little evidence that the covid virus came from the covid lab in Wuhan, the lab that was developing covid viruses, but isn't the reason for lack of evidence that they destroyed a lot of it before it could be inspected?  If we have to rely on the word of the Chinese government that it wasn't made in that lab, then I don;t think there's reliable evidence to rule it out.  No proof either way, but I lean heavily towards the covid lab being the source, mostly because of the coincidence and lack of contradictory evidence.

 

I'd be wary of official covid death tolls.  Although that one shows Brazil only half the death rate per population as Peru, it may be that Brazil underreported it simply because of the nutter President.  The report I was thinking of (but can't find now) was produced by a US university in collaboration with a Brazilian university to measure total deaths in Brazil, and unless literally hundreds of thousands of bodies were being hidden, the Brazil death rate was significantly less than Peru.  This was perhaps at the end of 2020 or into 2021, after the first big wave but before the second, and I can't find the report on t'net.  So I think it's fairly definite that Brazil sans lockdown did better than Peru with lockdown, though of course other factors were in place too.

 

 

Edited 4 July 2023 by dsr-burnley

[leicsmac]

31 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I agree there is little evidence that the covid virus came from the covid lab in Wuhan, the lab that was developing covid viruses, but isn't the reason for lack of evidence that they destroyed a lot of it before it could be inspected?  If we have to rely on the word of the Chinese government that it wasn't made in that lab, then I don;t think there's reliable evidence to rule it out.  No proof either way, but I lean heavily towards the covid lab being the source, mostly because of the coincidence and lack of contradictory evidence.

 

I'd be wary of official covid death tolls.  Although that one shows Brazil only half the death rate per population as Peru, it may be that Brazil underreported it simply because of the nutter President.  The report I was thinking of (but can't find now) was produced by a US university in collaboration with a Brazilian university to measure total deaths in Brazil, and unless literally hundreds of thousands of bodies were being hidden, the Brazil death rate was significantly less than Peru.  This was perhaps at the end of 2020 or into 2021, after the first big wave but before the second, and I can't find the report on t'net.  So I think it's fairly definite that Brazil sans lockdown did better than Peru with lockdown, though of course other factors were in place too.

 

 

A quick word on this that also is something from previous discussion: as far as I'm concerned there's no real difference, apart from scientific information, between the thing getting out of a lab accidentally and arising through zoonotic origin anyway.

 

When people purport the "lab leak" possibility, they usually imply - or flat out say - "it was released deliberately because reasons, look how horrible those yellow commie devils are".

 

Of course, it can't be ruled out, but as per above I think such a deduction is pretty immaterial anyway.

[dsr-burnley]

30 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

A quick word on this that also is something from previous discussion: as far as I'm concerned there's no real difference, apart from scientific information, between the thing getting out of a lab accidentally and arising through zoonotic origin anyway.

 

When people purport the "lab leak" possibility, they usually imply - or flat out say - "it was released deliberately because reasons, look how horrible those yellow commie devils are".

 

Of course, it can't be ruled out, but as per above I think such a deduction is pretty immaterial anyway.

I agree they didn't do it on purpose.  But I'm certain that if it was a lab leak, they would have covered up the evidence and not allowed WHO or anyone else to investigate properly.  Which is in fact what they did, but then the Chinese government is so untrusting of the west that they would probably do that if they were 100% innocent as well.  But there's no sense IMO to any theory that it was a deliberate leak.

 

And yes, for treatment of this and future pandemics, it hardly matters where the thing comes from except to the extent that the greater the information, the better the chance of effective treatment.

[Sparrowhawk]

4 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

And yes, for treatment of this and future pandemics

Talking of future pandemics, I saw a disappointing but entirely unsurprising report somewhere (can't recall where, soz) that the UK is now less well prepared for a pandemic than it was in 2020...

[dsr-burnley]

Just now, Sparrowhawk said:

Talking of future pandemics, I saw a disappointing but entirely unsurprising report somewhere (can't recall where, soz) that the UK is now less well prepared for a pandemic than it was in 2020...

Well, in 2020 they had a plan all ready.  Then they panicked and ditched it ...

 

Now, presumably, there isn't a plan.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Sparrowhawk said:

Talking of future pandemics, I saw a disappointing but entirely unsurprising report somewhere (can't recall where, soz) that the UK is now less well prepared for a pandemic than it was in 2020...

 

1 minute ago, dsr-burnley said:

Well, in 2020 they had a plan all ready.  Then they panicked and ditched it ...

 

Now, presumably, there isn't a plan.

It's like political systems and actual long-term thought (that is, to say, beyond the next decade/election) are completely incompatible with each other. Ridiculous and scary at the same time.

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, simFox said:

If you really think after all the evidence that it wasn't started in the Wuhan lab, you are seriously deluded.

 

The evidence is compelling.

 

The lack of evidence for a spillover the same.

 

They even knew it was an engineered virus from day 1!

 

 

So compelling that even those agencies that you keep quoting, have only stated "with a low level of confidence" that it "most likely" started via a lab leak and have "No direct evidence". 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Babylon said:

So compelling that even those agencies that you keep quoting, have only stated "with a low level of confidence" that it "most likely" started via a lab leak and have "No direct evidence". 

Compelling enough to engage in a campaign against certain ethnicities and political systems for base purposes, evidently.

[MPH]

3 hours ago, simFox said:

If you really think after all the evidence that it wasn't started in the Wuhan lab, you are seriously deluded.

 

The evidence is compelling.

 

The lack of evidence for a spillover the same.

 

They even knew it was an engineered virus from day 1!

 

 

 

are you able to provide us some direct links to this  evidence, please? I’d be very interested to read it.

Edited 4 July 2023 by MPH