Companies House - Registration of charge

[Osavo]

1 hour ago, richardsfoxes said:

The last one was last month, if we're using another for cash flow reasons after selling 6-7 players for fee's then yeah we are in a huge amount of problems. 

But the cash won't have come up front for those fees either? They'll all be paid in instalments too. 

[richardsfoxes]

1 minute ago, Osavo said:

But the cash won't have come up front for those fees either? They'll all be paid in instalments too. 

Not all of it no but they will stay make a initial payment surely. 

[VLC86]

I’d imagine we will be likely doing this to avoid Top/KP having to write debts off themselves. Worrying.

[Globalfox]

This is just normal business the recent facilities are against parachute payments and agreed payments by west ham for Hermansen. They are not loans per se but secured loan facilities I.e. a fiscal arrangement that the club can access when and if they need to. It is not a given that they took all this right away. Business does this all the time to ensure liquidity. I do this for small start ups all the time they get a contract or purchase order and we provide access to cash to keep them solvent for a fee. Smart business people always use other peoples money. You give your deposits to the bank they give you 1% they loan your money at 5% and pocket 4% in profits that’s how it works. The lender gets to cash flow and charge its customers 8% to cover the cost. Unfortunately football on the whole loses money so that’s the challenge.

 

[AjcW]

1 minute ago, Globalfox said:

This is just normal business the recent facilities are against parachute payments and agreed payments by west ham for Hermansen. They are not loans per se but secured loan facilities I.e. a fiscal arrangement that the club can access when and if they need to. It is not a given that they took all this right away. Business does this all the time to ensure liquidity. I do this for small start ups all the time they get a contract or purchase order and we provide access to cash to keep them solvent for a fee. Smart business people always use other peoples money. You give your deposits to the bank they give you 1% they loan your money at 5% and pocket 4% in profits that’s how it works. The lender gets to cash flow and charge its customers 8% to cover the cost. Unfortunately football on the whole loses money so that’s the challenge.

 

I'm less bothered about these agreements on transfer fees. The one in July is entirely different, it's secured against future income that only materialises if we are immediately promoted. If we're not then it's secured against parachute payments and then.... property... 

[Globalfox]

12 minutes ago, AjcW said:

I'm less bothered about these agreements on transfer fees. The one in July is entirely different, it's secured against future income that only materialises if we are immediately promoted. If we're not then it's secured against parachute payments and then.... property... 

I think it’s against EPL payments assuming we are not promoted and the parachute payments schedules. If promoted that would be settled and paid from the TV revenue being back in the EPL. This facility and the clearing of the decks suggests to me strategy around a complete reset. Clear the dead wood, reduce the wage bill, take parachute payments and start afresh after the incoming penalties from the corrupt PSR. This is what I would do but of course the club will never say it as it will be seen as lacking ambition.

[AjcW]

1 minute ago, Globalfox said:

I think it’s against EPL payments assuming we are not promoted and the parachute payments schedules. If promoted that would be settled and paid from the TV revenue being back in the EPL. This facility and the clearing of the decks suggests to me strategy around a complete reset. Clear the dead wood, reduce the wage bill, take parachute payments and start afresh after the incoming penalties from the corrupt PSR. This is what I would do but of course the club will never say it as it will be seen as lacking ambition.

But if we're stuck down here for four seasons we wont be able to pay back that facility in full.... 

[st albans fox]

Wonder what the initial payment from West Ham was ?

they’re usually equal amounts which would make the fee £15m 

 

The interest we’ll pay is also going to reduce the total amount we receive closer to £14 m 

 

clearly our cash flow is not particularly healthy if we need to draw down on £15m.  However, it may also indicate we aren’t expecting to make another big sale. 

[Oldblueyes]

The bit about the need for startup business to have a well to draw monies from when required is fine.

However we were supposed to be a very friendly family run club that was supposed to be a model of a club for others to aspire too. 

So my question to our directors is, so what happened to that then. 

[moore_94]

With these loan facilities against future Prem payments and transfer fees etc. is it actually confirmed that we are taking the full values or are we just having these loan facilities open and available to use if we need them?

[The Hitman]

1 hour ago, moore_94 said:

With these loan facilities against future Prem payments and transfer fees etc. is it actually confirmed that we are taking the full values or are we just having these loan facilities open and available to use if we need them?

I guess you wouldn’t need to open new ones if we wasn’t maxing out the previous ones?

[Globalfox]

2 hours ago, AjcW said:

But if we're stuck down here for four seasons we wont be able to pay back that facility in full.... 

why do you say that I looked up the 3 year payments and it works out plus or minus 100k. Of course it all depends how we spend going forward with both transfer fees and particularly wages. If we stay down for several seasons revenue I would expect to drop as people will be disillusioned. Hospitality across the whole of football already seems to be in recession. I am getting wholesale offers for discounts across the `EPL and EFL so that’s a concern. The next TV contract will also be the interesting waypoint.

[Globalfox]

9 minutes ago, The Hitman said:

I guess you wouldn’t need to open new ones if we wasn’t maxing out the previous ones?

Possibly but also the interest rate will be a factor not unusual to pay out and resign at more attractive rates as the markets change just like your home mortgage. Businesses tend to be more agile.

[sdb]

I'm not smart enough to understand this, but wouldn't it make sense to do it after the transfer window closes and we know incomings (ha ha) and outgoings? It's literally a few days away.

[HankMarvin]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Wonder what the initial payment from West Ham was ?

they’re usually equal amounts which would make the fee £15m 

 

The interest we’ll pay is also going to reduce the total amount we receive closer to £14 m 

 

clearly our cash flow is not particularly healthy if we need to draw down on £15m.  However, it may also indicate we aren’t expecting to make another big sale. 

That’s what the West Ham patron account alluded to £15.5m with 2m in tough to reach add ons 

[sylofox]

Anyone any idea how much we've paid in interest on all the loans we've had?

 

Are all the other clubs doing this pay day loan shite.

 

Are we just going to keep borrowing until bankruptcy.

[MonarchFox]

2 hours ago, sdb said:

I'm not smart enough to understand this, but wouldn't it make sense to do it after the transfer window closes and we know incomings (ha ha) and outgoings? It's literally a few days away.

I'm assuming the money hits our accounts quite quickly.  Therefore puts us in a better in a negotiating position. 

 

Say a player is £10m, one club offers this and structure it to pay £2.5m over 4 years, whereas as we could offer £7m either upfront or in 2 payments so they have their money in a year.  £7m starts to look the attractive option and we get the player.

 

Technically we've saved ourselves £3m in the purchase fee and the interest is £800k so we are £2.2m better off.

 

Now this looks like great business sense if you but talent you can sell on in the future, but it's absolute guff if you've just spanked it on Oliver Skipp.

 

Like Globalfox said, it looks like a complete reset at the club but they can't sell that to the fans.

 

 

 

 

[Spudulike]

 

[Spudulike]

 

[Claridge]

spend it and Top writes it off later when he has some readies.Hopefully

[Sol thewall Bamba]

This is the real ticking time bomb assuming we stay in this league for a while.

 

"Standard business practice" we were told though so I'm sure it'll be fine.

[VLC86]

37 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

This is the real ticking time bomb assuming we stay in this league for a while.

 

"Standard business practice" we were told though so I'm sure it'll be fine.

Yep, I’ve said many times before (and been shot down many times before) that this will require external funding to settle these debts if that happens. It’s clear KP is not doing that at the minute.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

13 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

Yep, I’ve said many times before (and been shot down many times before) that this will require external funding to settle these debts if that happens. It’s clear KP is not doing that at the minute.

9 outstanding from what's posted in here, and the parachute payments and TV money absent. It's going to get bad. 

 

But we're assured that everyone does it so I'm sure it'll be fine.

[TheGoldenGod]

Talk of Top doing a sit-down interview soon so fingers and toes crossed he's f**king off for good...no chance of it I know!

[MPH]

24 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

Yep, I’ve said many times before (and been shot down many times before) that this will require external funding to settle these debts if that happens. It’s clear KP is not doing that at the minute.

 

The loans are secured. Against the  said income. Like the hermansen payemnets for example, I have understood it that the payments won’t come to us, they will  go straight to  Macquarie. So there can be no late or missing payements.