Ben Chilwell

[Collymore]

3 minutes ago, Guest said:

Yeah I can remember you were incredibly balanced in posting about Chilwell

Always praised him when he did well. Said what I saw like I do with all players. 

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, Collymore said:

You know my point. I respect your non flinching iron stance on the topic though...

I genuinely don't.

[Ric Flair]

54 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

He got too much stick last season. He's done really well at Chelsea, talent was always there. Gwon lad.

I'm sorry but the talent wasn't always there. His technique at passing, crossing and shooting from his time at Leicester was by and large pretty poor. So much so, I didn't think he could be coached to improve that much hence why I was happy to cash in on him. He is sensational at running with the ball though and can almost make up for many of his deficiencies as long as you as a team aren't relying solely for end product down that flank which we often were given his poor understanding with Barnes and before Barnes there was very little creativity in Albrighton or Gray. 

 

It will be interesting to see how he develops at Chelsea, started there really well and is a player who suffers confidence issues so I wish him all the best, did alright for us but didn't kick on after a standout breakthrough under Puel at through 2018. 

[Collymore]

6 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I genuinely don't.

The football world is different. You seemed to imply abuse in football, as in fans criticism of players is somehow wrong. 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Collymore said:

The football world is different. You seemed to imply abuse in football, as in fans criticism of players is somehow wrong. 

Ah. You seem to think that abuse and criticism are synonymous, and that is where we differ.

[Collymore]

@HighPeakFoxWhat would you class this as? Abuse or criticism?

Edited 29 October 2020 by Collymore

[Collymore]

1 minute ago, Collymore said:

What would you class this as? Abuse or criticism?

I really hate to be the one that breaks this but  I really do think he flatters to deceive and really think he limits us more than anything else. 

 

Yes he had a lot of space tonight but I think Atletico probably allowed him this. There were many times he got into really good positions but he lacks the ability or guile to be playing at his level (his assist was just pinball)

I would have had Gray over him tonight all day long and feel he would have been a lot more effective. 

 

 

[Collymore]

@HighPeakFoxAbuse or Criticism?

 

 

I think Rodgers doesn't want him to run forward with the ball like he seemed to do under Puel, which unfortunately happens to be Ben's biggest asset.

 

When he did do in the past, it was very unpredictable what he was going to do when he arrived in the oppositions final third and if he doesn't know what he's going to do, how will his teammates?

 

His 'threatening positions' to 'chances created' stats would have been shocking.  Ricardo always seemed the opposite of this and more likely to make something happen and It still seems he's encouraged to run with the ball and get into the box under Rodgers. 

 

Brendan being so obsessed with his statistics wouldn't like play occurring that didn't have a definitive outcome, so he's probably worked with Chilwell to play more simple balls so we start phases of plays that have more structure - the problem has been that Chilwell seems to struggle when he has too much time to think and he seems to find the simple side of the game overly difficult for my liking at times. 

 

Having said that, I've been his biggest critic recently but I did see an improvement yesterday. 

 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Collymore said:

@HighPeakFoxAbuse or Criticism?

 

 

I think Rodgers doesn't want him to run forward with the ball like he seemed to do under Puel, which unfortunately happens to be Ben's biggest asset.

 

When he did do in the past, it was very unpredictable what he was going to do when he arrived in the oppositions final third and if he doesn't know what he's going to do, how will his teammates?

 

His 'threatening positions' to 'chances created' stats would have been shocking.  Ricardo always seemed the opposite of this and more likely to make something happen and It still seems he's encouraged to run with the ball and get into the box under Rodgers. 

 

Brendan being so obsessed with his statistics wouldn't like play occurring that didn't have a definitive outcome, so he's probably worked with Chilwell to play more simple balls so we start phases of plays that have more structure - the problem has been that Chilwell seems to struggle when he has too much time to think and he seems to find the simple side of the game overly difficult for my liking at times. 

 

Having said that, I've been his biggest critic recently but I did see an improvement yesterday. 

 

I wasn't aware that I had accused you of being abusive. However, you seem to be defending the right of others to be abusive.

[Collymore]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

I wasn't aware that I had accused you of being abusive. However, you seem to be defending the right of others to be abusive.

Well maybe you could be clear to what, in your opinion,  constitutes abuse on a football forum?

 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Collymore said:

Well maybe you could be clear to what, in your opinion,  constitutes abuse on a football forum?

 

The onus isn't on me to prove that. It was you that defended the right of people to be abusive at football matches/online. What you self-quoted was absolutely fine, but you'd not have to look very hard to find people being unconstructively and personally unpleasant towards any player that dares look the wrong way. Check any match-day thread for even mild examples.

[Collymore]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

The onus isn't on me to prove that. It was you that defended the right of people to be abusive at football matches/online. What you self-quoted was absolutely fine, but you'd not have to look very hard to find people being unconstructively and personally unpleasant towards any player that dares look the wrong way. Check any match-day thread for even mild examples.

Do you not think that someone shouting something at a football match in the heat of the moment (or posting on a forum) is different to say something that might happen in a more calculated way in other walks of life? 

[Hales]

I'm sure as adults we all know what constitutes criticism and what is abuse.  I don't think we need to constantly keep going over it. Whatever rubbish Ben took clearly affected him and when that was obvious, as it was, then supporters should have stepped back and supported one of our own players. Whatever you think of him as a player doesn't matter. He is a human being and if it is affecting his daily life then that's wrong. End of!

[foxes_rule1978]

I like to see him do well

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, Collymore said:

Do you not think that someone shouting something at a football match in the heat of the moment (or posting on a forum) is different to say something that might happen in a more calculated way in other walks of life? 

Abuse is abuse. I understand where you're coming from now, but how it's said is how it's said, regardless of context.

[Collymore]

12 minutes ago, Hales said:

I'm sure as adults we all know what constitutes criticism and what is abuse.  I don't think we need to constantly keep going over it. Whatever rubbish Ben took clearly affected him and when that was obvious, as it was, then supporters should have stepped back and supported one of our own players. Whatever you think of him as a player doesn't matter. He is a human being and if it is affecting his daily life then that's wrong. End of!

 

9 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Abuse is abuse. I understand where you're coming from now, but how it's said is how it's said, regardless of context.

 

Actually thinking about it, I'd imagine booing at games would probably be the biggest catalyst in all of this perhaps?. Imagine the shame and awkwardness around your other teammates, I bet it would be the elephant in the room so to speak. 

 

booing is the absolute lowest of the low. 

 

 

[Mr Weller]

I think some people have got themselves into a bit of hole here. People were annoyed because they were accused of being abusive when they were just giving their views on Chilwell, albeit sometimes in a rather colourful way. Such accusations came across as sanctimonious and over sensitive which provoked a backlash.

 

The story, such as it was, was not about players with mental health issues as some were implying, despite their protestations and attempts to seize the moral high ground, it was about an ex-player who lost his way and a bit of confidence before having his head turned by a large pay cheque that magically restored his confidence again.

[Frank Large's Black Book]

Why does chillwell keep his own thread - put it in the ex players thread please.

 

Not interested in him any more.

 

He's the opposition

 

 

[HighPeakFox]

10 minutes ago, Frank Large's Black Book said:

Why does chillwell keep his own thread - put it in the ex players thread please.

 

Not interested in him any more.

 

He's the opposition

Because it is relevant to us and our fanbase.

[Frank Large's Black Book]

2 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Because it is relevant to us and our fanbase.

Maybe so, but so are the others who are placed in the ex players thread.

 

Or are you saying all ex players are relevent, but some are more relevant than others.

[foxile5]

My word. 

 

He works in an environment whereby he provides entertainment to the public eye. This is a sector where nobody is forced to work - it isn't a sweatshop - and he is paid huge riches to be there. 

 

Part of this job is, and has been since he has been alive, extreme public scrutiny. This is directly and inextricably linked to the fact that the public invest heavily into this sector. 

 

Ben Chilwell would have known this and took on the job accordingly. You can't expect to be a fireman and not go to a fire, you can't expect to be a police officer and not deal with civil disobedience, you can't expect to be an international footballer and not deal with willy pullers. 

 

I'm sorry but there are millions of under paid, under appreciated, and abused civil servants for me to care about the plight of a millionaire 'losing confidence'. 

 

People were dickheads to him at Leicester, true enough. He was also ****ing poor for long periods and he was paid a kings ransom to do so. Buy the ticket, take the ride. If it wasn't a good enough position he could've gotten a job at Factory, in the army, at a bookshop, or even volunteered given his financial status. 

 

**** me. This isn't a charity case. 

[HighPeakFox]

8 minutes ago, Frank Large's Black Book said:

Maybe so, but so are the others who are placed in the ex players thread.

 

Or are you saying all ex players are relevent, but some are more relevant than others.

No, I'm saying it's relevant because it happened whilst he was representing us. It isn't complicated.

[SheppyFox]

Is this a joke? All players lose confidence, for me sporting confidence isn’t a mental health issue, its a dip in form. Anybody who has had real life mental health struggles will find this irritating at best.

[HighPeakFox]

3 minutes ago, SheppyFox said:

 Anybody who has had real life mental health struggles will find this irritating at best.

I don't know who you're speaking for, but it isn't me. I have had lifelong struggles of this nature, and I'm only irritated by ignorance of the subject. 

[foxile5]

4 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I don't know who you're speaking for, but it isn't me. I have had lifelong struggles of this nature, and I'm only irritated by ignorance of the subject. 

Mental health isn't always having confidence, is it? Confidence is a transient virtue and linked to a tonne of variables. What he's describing is normal, everyday strife isn't it?