Gary Mills and the BS about ''player burnout''.

[ceredigion]

I've been provoked to making this comment by hearing Klopp moaning today that Liverpool had to kick off at 12.30 rather than 3.00.

I was reminded of the contribution Gary Mills made to LCFC in the early 90s.

 

Gary was a great player for us and in the seasons 90/91 91/92 and 92/93 he made a total of 163 appearances for the club. That's an average of 54 games a season over 3 years and he probably both started and finished every one of those games. He was also the wrong side of 30 at the time but was probably our best player during those 3 seasons.

 

During the 91/92 season he played every minute of every game in every competition the club was involved in, i.e the League, the Play-Offs, the FA Cup, the League Cup and the ZDS Cup. He played 61 out of 61 games that season, starting and finishing them all. He was never given any time off, not even an early substitution and was made to play in matches such as Maidstone United away in the League Cup and Barnsley at home in the ZDS Cup. I don't recall him complaining. And he was arguably our best player and should have been allowed a rest now and again.

 

Will that ever happen again? I very much doubt it.

 

 

[Bob Farley]

Klopps interview today was embarrassing and I normally respect him. 

[Sampson]

4 hours ago, ceredigion said:

I've been provoked to making this comment by hearing Klopp moaning today that Liverpool had to kick off at 12.30 rather than 3.00.

I was reminded of the contribution Gary Mills made to LCFC in the early 90s.

 

Gary was a great player for us and in the seasons 90/91 91/92 and 92/93 he made a total of 163 appearances for the club. That's an average of 54 games a season over 3 years and he probably both started and finished every one of those games. He was also the wrong side of 30 at the time but was probably our best player during those 3 seasons.

 

During the 91/92 season he played every minute of every game in every competition the club was involved in, i.e the League, the Play-Offs, the FA Cup, the League Cup and the ZDS Cup. He played 61 out of 61 games that season, starting and finishing them all. He was never given any time off, not even an early substitution and was made to play in matches such as Maidstone United away in the League Cup and Barnsley at home in the ZDS Cup. I don't recall him complaining. And he was arguably our best player and should have been allowed a rest now and again.

 

Will that ever happen again? I very much doubt it.

 

 

I get that but even as recent as 20 years ago the game was so different and players just didn't run themselves into the ground the same way.

 

I guess when you watch it unfold in increments it's hard to realise, but when I see footage back it makes me remember that players just didn't press and most goals in the 90s seemed to come from crosses.

 

The England vs Argentina match from 1986 was on the BBC yesterday and I hadn't seen it other than the goals in cluos since the game took place. And I found it a little hard to watch back because the game was played at walking pace compared to today's games - teams didn't press the opposition like they do today, there was a bit of jockeying and jogging towards the player in the ball and attacking players often jogged with the ball and had so much space.

 

Brian Little's side was known to be incredibly hard working but I bet if distance run stats were available back then then, then even the player who ran the most wouldn't even come close to anyone in today's squad (bar obviously Kasper and maybe the centre-backs), but even someone notoriously lazy like Mahrez would massively outrun and played to a much higher intensity than any of Brian Little's side in any game.

 

The level of demand on the body and the level of physical conditioning is figuratively and literally miles better today than it was 25-30 years ago when Gary Mills played for us. And injuries and illness are far more likely when you exercise to a higher intensity. I'm sure anyone who's ever got into running has experienced this fact.

 

Klopp is a moaner and I'm not for 5 subs at all - that's what your squad is for. But I think you've gone after the wrong aspect of his whinging here. Players are at a high risk of injury due to the schedule given the intensity of the modern game. It's the fact that he's not rotating his squad and not making his full allocation of subs until the 90th minute which is where his hypocrisy is eye-rolling, because he cares more about the club winning and making money than protecting the players himself.

Edited 29 November 2020 by Sampson

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, Sampson said:

I get that but even as recent as 20 years ago the game was so different and players just didn't run themselves into the ground the same way.

 

I guess when you watch it unfold in increments it's hard to realise, but when I see footage back it makes me remember that players just didn't press and most goals in the 90s seemed to come from crosses.

 

The England vs Argentina match from 1986 was on the BBC yesterday and I hadn't seen it other than the goals in cluos since the game took place. And I found it a little hard to watch back because the game was played at walking pace compared to today's games - teams didn't press the opposition like they do today, there was a bit of jockeying and jogging towards the player in the ball and attacking players often jogged with the ball and had so much space.

 

Brian Little's side was known to be incredibly hard working but I bet if distance run stats were available back then then, then even the player who ran the most wouldn't even come close to anyone in today's squad (bar obviously Kasper and maybe the centre-backs), but even someone notoriously lazy like Mahrez would massively outrun and played to a much higher intensity than any of Brian Little's side in any game.

 

The level of demand on the body and the level of physical conditioning is figuratively and literally miles better today than it was 25-30 years ago when Gary Mills played for us. And injuries and illness are far more likely when you exercise to a higher intensity. I'm sure anyone who's ever got into running has experienced this fact.

 

Klopp is a moaner and I'm not for 5 subs at all - that's what your squad is for. But I think you've gone after the wrong aspect of his whinging here. Players are at a high risk of injury due to the schedule given the intensity of the modern game. It's the fact that he's not rotating his squad and not making his full allocation of subs until the 90th minute which is where his hypocrisy is eye-rolling, because he cares more about the club winning and making money than protecting the players himself.

True but footballers are better athletes now and nor do they routinely get plastered a few times a week like the good old days.

[Guest ttfn]

4 hours ago, Sampson said:

I get that but even as recent as 20 years ago the game was so different and players just didn't run themselves into the ground the same way.

 

I guess when you watch it unfold in increments it's hard to realise, but when I see footage back it makes me remember that players just didn't press and most goals in the 90s seemed to come from crosses.

 

The England vs Argentina match from 1986 was on the BBC yesterday and I hadn't seen it other than the goals in cluos since the game took place. And I found it a little hard to watch back because the game was played at walking pace compared to today's games - teams didn't press the opposition like they do today, there was a bit of jockeying and jogging towards the player in the ball and attacking players often jogged with the ball and had so much space.

 

Brian Little's side was known to be incredibly hard working but I bet if distance run stats were available back then then, then even the player who ran the most wouldn't even come close to anyone in today's squad (bar obviously Kasper and maybe the centre-backs), but even someone notoriously lazy like Mahrez would massively outrun and played to a much higher intensity than any of Brian Little's side in any game.

 

The level of demand on the body and the level of physical conditioning is figuratively and literally miles better today than it was 25-30 years ago when Gary Mills played for us. And injuries and illness are far more likely when you exercise to a higher intensity. I'm sure anyone who's ever got into running has experienced this fact.

 

Klopp is a moaner and I'm not for 5 subs at all - that's what your squad is for. But I think you've gone after the wrong aspect of his whinging here. Players are at a high risk of injury due to the schedule given the intensity of the modern game. It's the fact that he's not rotating his squad and not making his full allocation of subs until the 90th minute which is where his hypocrisy is eye-rolling, because he cares more about the club winning and making money than protecting the players himself.

Klopp chooses to deploy a particularly aggressive, high intensity game. That is a decision he makes with little regard for the impact on his players.

 

I’ve made this point before but one of the best things Rodgers has done this season is take some of the intensity out of our play. It’s just not possible to play full throttle all the time when trying to play twice a week for 8 months non-stop. We’ve obviously had injuries too but we’re clearly doing everything in our power to mitigate them, I’m not sure the same can be said of Liverpool.

[Spudulike]

8 hours ago, Bob Farley said:

Klopps interview today was embarrassing and I normally respect him. 

Any respect that I might've had for him disappeared after his Hamza comments last season. 

[TheStig]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

True but footballers are better athletes now and nor do they routinely get plastered a few times a week like the good old days.

....and then the pitches were absolutely awful. Mud and sand

[m4DD0gg]

9 hours ago, ceredigion said:

I've been provoked to making this comment by hearing Klopp moaning today that Liverpool had to kick off at 12.30 rather than 3.00.

I was reminded of the contribution Gary Mills made to LCFC in the early 90s.

 

Gary was a great player for us and in the seasons 90/91 91/92 and 92/93 he made a total of 163 appearances for the club. That's an average of 54 games a season over 3 years and he probably both started and finished every one of those games. He was also the wrong side of 30 at the time but was probably our best player during those 3 seasons.

 

During the 91/92 season he played every minute of every game in every competition the club was involved in, i.e the League, the Play-Offs, the FA Cup, the League Cup and the ZDS Cup. He played 61 out of 61 games that season, starting and finishing them all. He was never given any time off, not even an early substitution and was made to play in matches such as Maidstone United away in the League Cup and Barnsley at home in the ZDS Cup. I don't recall him complaining. And he was arguably our best player and should have been allowed a rest now and again.

 

Will that ever happen again? I very much doubt it.

 

 

The premier league and european competitions are 100 times more intensive and physically and mentally demanding then the ZDS cup. Not to mention the fact that players have had very little preseason.

[Collymore]

That reporter who interviewed Klopp, Des Kelly was it? He was a slimy little toad that deserved a barrage of abuse off Klopp for trying to get his headline the little weasel. Klopp let him off the hook in the end by making his rant too general giving the reporter even more confidence.

 

I wish Big Nige could have come in with a tag to send the little oaf packing for good. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 29 November 2020 by Collymore

[Collymore]

10 hours ago, Bob Farley said:

Klopps interview today was embarrassing and I normally respect him. 

I think there is a balance. I kind of miss a little needle we used to get under Big Nige and the pantomime dramatics of Claudio. 

 

It feels like a reporter could kidnap Brendan's family and spit in his face and he still wouldn't bite.

 

"The players will work hard on getting this spit off my face for Thursday and my family are wonderful human beings with great character, I'm sure they will work hard and return soon" 

 

 

[Mike Oxlong]

6 hours ago, Sampson said:

I get that but even as recent as 20 years ago the game was so different and players just didn't run themselves into the ground the same way.

 

I guess when you watch it unfold in increments it's hard to realise, but when I see footage back it makes me remember that players just didn't press and most goals in the 90s seemed to come from crosses.

 

The England vs Argentina match from 1986 was on the BBC yesterday and I hadn't seen it other than the goals in cluos since the game took place. And I found it a little hard to watch back because the game was played at walking pace compared to today's games - teams didn't press the opposition like they do today, there was a bit of jockeying and jogging towards the player in the ball and attacking players often jogged with the ball and had so much space.

 

Brian Little's side was known to be incredibly hard working but I bet if distance run stats were available back then then, then even the player who ran the most wouldn't even come close to anyone in today's squad (bar obviously Kasper and maybe the centre-backs), but even someone notoriously lazy like Mahrez would massively outrun and played to a much higher intensity than any of Brian Little's side in any game.

 

The level of demand on the body and the level of physical conditioning is figuratively and literally miles better today than it was 25-30 years ago when Gary Mills played for us. And injuries and illness are far more likely when you exercise to a higher intensity. I'm sure anyone who's ever got into running has experienced this fact.

 

Klopp is a moaner and I'm not for 5 subs at all - that's what your squad is for. But I think you've gone after the wrong aspect of his whinging here. Players are at a high risk of injury due to the schedule given the intensity of the modern game. It's the fact that he's not rotating his squad and not making his full allocation of subs until the 90th minute which is where his hypocrisy is eye-rolling, because he cares more about the club winning and making money than protecting the players himself.

I just assumed that this was the result of playing the match on a Mexican hot summer afternoon 

 

If you watch some of the 1970s Leeds and Liverpool teams they were at at like right bastards 

[Sampson]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

True but footballers are better athletes now and nor do they routinely get plastered a few times a week like the good old days.

I'm not sure on your point here. Over-exercising where your body is really primed is what causes burnout and muscle injuries, not getting drunk and exercising less at less intensity.

[tom27111]

Christmas 1993/94 we actually played on consecutive days. A 4-4 draw at home to Watford on 27th December and lost 3-2 away to Derby on 28th December.

[Guest Electric Yetis]

20 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

Christmas 1993/94 we actually played on consecutive days. A 4-4 draw at home to Watford on 27th December 

 

Was a fantastic game. Great memories sitting in the Double Decker with my parents. Sure Ormondroyd equalised in the last few seconds.

[baldeagle]

1 hour ago, Collymore said:

That reporter who interviewed Klopp, Des Kelly was it? He was a slimy little toad that deserved a barrage of abuse off Klopp for trying to get his headline the little weasel. Klopp let him off the hook in the end by making his rant too general giving the reporter even more confidence.

 

I wish Big Nige could have come in with a tag to send the little oaf packing for good. 

 

 

 

 

Funny how people see things differently . When I watched it to me it came across as the reporter standing up for himself and questioning and calling Klopp out to which he then didn’t know where to go . He started off blaming the interviewer for the match time to which he replied with facts that it wasn’t him that  set the match time and it is what the club had agreed with the FA to which he then tried to back track 

Edited 29 November 2020 by baldeagle

[tom27111]

5 minutes ago, baldeagle said:

Funny how people see things differently . When I watched it to me it came across as the reporter standing up for himself and questioning and calling Klopp out to which he then didn’t know where to go . He started off blaming the interviewer for the match time to which he replied with facts that it wasn’t him thay set the match time and it is what the club had agreed with the FA to which he then tried to back track 

 

I mentioned it in the Premier League thread, but I find it refreshing that a real journalist has the opportunity to interview managers straight after the game on live TV.

 

Too often it's touchline reporters, hosts or ex pros who want to be their mate.

 

[Angus Scott]

Des Kelly is a former journalist & he used to write an excellent column in the Mail, so he knows his trade. I admire him for refusing to be bullied & belittled by a moron like Klopp.

 

As I said in another thread, Klopp must be a complete idiot if he cannot realise that his vast salary & ability to buy virtually any player on the planet is determined by the money that the TV companies pay. A lot of this money comes from the Far East where the 12.30 match is shown at prime Saturday evening time, so it's not going to change.

 

Please Herr Klopp go back to the Fatherland 

[Collymore]

33 minutes ago, baldeagle said:

Funny how people see things differently . When I watched it to me it came across as the reporter standing up for himself and questioning and calling Klopp out to which he then didn’t know where to go . He started off blaming the interviewer for the match time to which he replied with facts that it wasn’t him that  set the match time and it is what the club had agreed with the FA to which he then tried to back track 

 

25 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

 

I mentioned it in the Premier League thread, but I find it refreshing that a real journalist has the opportunity to interview managers straight after the game on live TV.

 

Too often it's touchline reporters, hosts or ex pros who want to be their mate.

 

Before that Klopp was right to call him out looking for his headline though when talking about the penalty. He knew "Klopp Agrees the ref got it right" was no use to him. 

 

Also I think people are naive to think he was sticking up for himself, he was adding more fuel to the fire to get more out of Klopp to ultimately make him more prominent in the journalistic world. 

 

The whole way the media is set up is rotten to the core, gone are the days of actually caring about tactical analysis, what a football fan might actually find interesting. Here you have a world class coach Infront of you and the reporter's primary objective is to talk about  decisions and get Klopp to criticise the ref and then he spent 10 minutes going on an ego trip.

 

I don't go to McDoanlds order a Big Mac and then expect the sales assistant to tell me why it's the wrong choice and say I should be getting a Chicken Sandwich.

 

The reporters should be there working for the public finding about what fans can't figure out for themselves... Instead that reporter will be getting a pat on the back by his superiors because he's crested a storm that will fill the back pages. 

 

Still the intricacies of the actual game will be left untouched.

[tom27111]

4 minutes ago, Collymore said:

 

Before that Klopp was right to call him out looking for his headline though when talking about the penalty. He knew "Klopp Agrees the ref got it right" was no use to him. 

 

Also I think people are naive to think he was sticking up for himself, he was adding more fuel to the fire to get more out of Klopp to ultimately make him more prominent in the journalistic world. 

 

The whole way the media is set up is rotten to the core, gone are the days of actually caring about tactical analysis, what a football fan might actually find interesting. Here you have a world class coach Infront of you and the reporter's primary objective is to talk about  decisions and get Klopp to criticise the ref and then he spent 10 minutes going on an ego trip.

 

I don't go to McDoanlds order a Big Mac and then expect the sales assistant to tell me why it's the wrong choice and say I should be getting a Chicken Sandwich.

 

The reporters should be there working for the public finding about what fans can't figure out for themselves... Instead that reporter will be getting a pat on the back by his superiors because he's crested a storm that will fill the back pages. 

 

Still the intricacies of the actual game will be left untouched.

 

But the newsworthy incidents were the decisions, not the tactics. 

 

People want to know about the decisions. Especially with Liverpool. 

 

VAR was so beneficial to them last season.

 

Made for much better viewing then Geoff Shreeves arselicking for 5 minutes.

[Criggers]

I think he loses his argument by saying if he had 5 subs then he could bring Robertson off to “save him”. He was on the bench in Champions league midweek and played half hour.

 

Klopp just wants his starting 11 in every game and to play his high pressing tactics with no compromise. If he can’t manage his squad and tactics that’s his own problem.

 

And the intensity thing I just can’t get behind. Players are better looked after than ever and besides, everyone is in the same boat, everyone had the same lack of pre season and everyone has 3 subs.

 

if it turns out one team had a bit more stamina or has dealt with the season a bit better or didn’t have to play as many games in Europe then that’s just the variables of a season coming in to play.

 

The further you go in CL, the more games you play, the more money you get. It’s the price of success. It’s the same with any cup.

 

If it means you have a less successful season and don’t qualify for Europe one year then so be it. Next year you won’t have the extra matches. It’s the circle of it all. You can’t just get to the top and expect to stay there forever.

[Vardinio'sCat]

9 hours ago, Sampson said:

I get that but even as recent as 20 years ago the game was so different and players just didn't run themselves into the ground the same way.

 

I guess when you watch it unfold in increments it's hard to realise, but when I see footage back it makes me remember that players just didn't press and most goals in the 90s seemed to come from crosses.

 

The England vs Argentina match from 1986 was on the BBC yesterday and I hadn't seen it other than the goals in cluos since the game took place. And I found it a little hard to watch back because the game was played at walking pace compared to today's games - teams didn't press the opposition like they do today, there was a bit of jockeying and jogging towards the player in the ball and attacking players often jogged with the ball and had so much space.

 

Brian Little's side was known to be incredibly hard working but I bet if distance run stats were available back then then, then even the player who ran the most wouldn't even come close to anyone in today's squad (bar obviously Kasper and maybe the centre-backs), but even someone notoriously lazy like Mahrez would massively outrun and played to a much higher intensity than any of Brian Little's side in any game.

 

The level of demand on the body and the level of physical conditioning is figuratively and literally miles better today than it was 25-30 years ago when Gary Mills played for us. And injuries and illness are far more likely when you exercise to a higher intensity. I'm sure anyone who's ever got into running has experienced this fact.

 

Klopp is a moaner and I'm not for 5 subs at all - that's what your squad is for. But I think you've gone after the wrong aspect of his whinging here. Players are at a high risk of injury due to the schedule given the intensity of the modern game. It's the fact that he's not rotating his squad and not making his full allocation of subs until the 90th minute which is where his hypocrisy is eye-rolling, because he cares more about the club winning and making money than protecting the players himself.

 

 

Check out the England vs Brazil 70 game if you really want to see a bunch of lazy. unfit players. The players couldn't even run properly, probably because of rickets and the war.

 

 

Edited 29 November 2020 by Vardinio'sCat

[Spiritwalker]

When I hear Chris Wilder and Sean Dyche call for 5 subs then I will be in favour. Until then I just

see it as the entitled rich clubs trying to gain even more of an advantage over the rest.

[Guest worth_the_wait]

Slow games in Mexico world cups ... due to altitude.

 

It's about 7400 feet above sea level.   Very difficult to run around in.

[Sampson]

35 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

Slow games in Mexico world cups ... due to altitude.

 

It's about 7400 feet above sea level.   Very difficult to run around in.

It wasn't due to that though was it? You can watch any game from that era and find the same thing - teams just didn't press and most of the game was played at walking pace with quick bursts of sprinting around the penalty area. And the majority of goals used to come from crosses, which rarely do anymore. Players just weren't pressed and closed down like they are today, defenders would even often jog back when attackers were on the wing and attackers had so much more time on the ball. Not to mention the endless passing back to the goalkeeper for him to bounce it for 20 seconds then boot it back up field.

I grew up watching the Bloomfield team who I loved at the time and still admire everyone from, but I find football from before the backpass rule difficult to watch back now whenever it's on the tv, even watching stuff back from the Little and O'Neill eras is all crosses into the box and the lack of pressing to the extent it is today is incredibly noticeable.

You can argue having more time on the ball is good for the spectacle or that players got kicked more etc. so could get more impact injuries which is true, that's fine, I'm not arguing players back in the day were running round with ricketts or anything (why do people have to respond as if I'm saying something pretty extreme?). But burnout, muscle tears and soft tissue injuries are always going to happen a lot more than they did 25 years ago due to how much more athletically primed players are today. The fitter you are, the more you're likely to tweak a muscle, it happens. Which is why I don't get this "back in the day no one moaned about burnout" argument.

Edited 29 November 2020 by Sampson

[Guest Fktf]

3 hours ago, Spiritwalker said:

When I hear Chris Wilder and Sean Dyche call for 5 subs then I will be in favour. Until then I just

see it as the entitled rich clubs trying to gain even more of an advantage over the rest.

It's so plain. Klopp and his, I'd have subbed Robertson to save him, not to make a tactical change. Well good for you having a reserve lb that would get in most prem 11s mate. It isn't a luxury most teams have.