The 21/22 Formations Thread

[Nick]

Well all will be revealed in due course but this has been playing on my mind, so here goes...

 

We finished the season playing our best 3 CB's with wing backs - this appeared mainly due to the lack of wide players available or reliable enough to start.

 

We lacked creativity doing so and even tried to play 2 up front with a number 10 in the hole when he was fit but even then the 3412 really lacked any spark in the final third.

 

Many of us are thinking we will return to a four at the back in a 4231/4141 at some point point but with no Barnes for a bit or a right sided starting winger yet of starting quality – that looks unlikely.

 

We've bought Daka and Soumare. Not sure either have come to be slowly bled off the bench but how do we accommodate either of them to start?

 

It makes sense to me that Soumare can play as either a 6 or an 8 therefore can rotate and give Youri and Wilf a rest as and when - something we struggled to do before. It's been discussed starting all 3 in a 433 or maybe a 4312 but surely 3 DCM's is all a bit y'know 'Puely'?

 

As for Daka – is the plan for two up top and a 10 behind or will he be the understudy for Vardy and sub on as lone striker in one of our more familiar set ups? Can he be played as a wide striker in a 3 up top?

 

I can't help but think we are going to have to start the season again playing with wing backs unless we decide to play either Ricardo/Thomas/Castagne as wide men in front of a four which I can't really see?

 

What will BR do without wide men - we were woefully uncreative toward the end of the season and dropped off massively... Will we start how we left off or am I missing something (apart from a couple of wingers and a recovered Barnes) ?

 

I want to feel like we are starting the season with a plan rather than just putting every fit decent player we have onto the pitch and trying to make some goals happen.

 

 

[Ric Flair]

If the Euros have told us anything its thst 3 at the back is absolute dog shit and almost every team that have played it have now bombed out. England hopefully won't need to use it again.

[sdb]

Harvey Barnes needs to start every important game. Thus making 352 redundant. I think.

Edited 2 July 2021 by sdb

[kyleolly]

4-3-3 hopefully 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

If the Euros have told us anything its thst 3 at the back is absolute dog shit and almost every team that have played it have now bombed out. England hopefully won't need to use it again.

It's obviously not though if you've got a squad who are both suited to and used to playing it. Atalanta have done well to go from lower mid table plodders to one of the most exciting teams in the world and European regulars playing a system that's absolute dog shit, as have Chelsea winning the Champions League and Leipzig finishing runners up to Bayern. We are far worse in a 3 than in our preferred systems and I certainly don't want to see it with any regularity next season but even we managed to win the FA Cup playing it. 

 

Our comparatively poor results and performances playing 3 at the back this season don't make it an inherently bad idea in the same way that the horror of Mendidi doesn't make playing two holding midfielders an inherently bad idea, but those two are now probably safely ensconced in the Foxestalk chamber of unforgivable sins along with signing players from Sporting.

[StriderHiryu]

I think we might see 433 used for the first time this season. Something like this:

 

 

This type of team would be used against physical teams that out muscle / bully us. Hence some of the choices; Daka instead of Vardy to harass for 70 minutes till Vardy comes on late. No Maddison or Perez at 10, as we run three shuttlers in the middle of the park in the way Liverpool do. Ricardo and Castagne to overload the right hand side, even if neither is an out and out winger. Thomas has more energy than Bertrand, but using him for his experience and physical strength. West Ham would be the obvious team to use this against as they were the team that physically battered us the most, even if they stood of and counter attacked us.

 

 

 

It could also be something like this, a 352 instead of 3412. Think you would see Castagne as the third CB here because the way we play, the spare CB doubles up with the wing back to create an additional surprise threat.

 

In both systems players are interchangeable, but I think we will see a lot more rotation this season. Vardy plays against the big 6 and crucial must-win games. If we want to play one up top but rest Vardy, Daka comes in. If we want two strikers, we see Nacho as pick number 1, with Vardy or Daka to support him. Probably at least once this season when behind we see a Fergie style "put all of our strikers on the pitch" tactic when behind with Daka, Vardy, Nacho and even Perez on, before we inevitably lose!

 

4231 / 3412 / 442 Diamond will still be the main systems used, but having those 3 midfielders means we can play similar to Liverpool. The scousers under Klopp have a very interesting way of functioning because their midfielders aren't there for creativity, but more to trap and box the opposition in so they can't get out of their own half. Then you just wear down the opposition over time.

 

Last season Rodgers was fanastic against the top 6, who we struggled against in the previous season. But we lost too many games at home. So that's how we should measure him this time round. I don't think we will be quite as good against the top 6 this season, as we were freakishly good, but home losses to Villa, Leeds, West Ham, Fulham, etc have to be turned into minimum draws and better wins for me.

 

 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

If the Euros have told us anything its thst 3 at the back is absolute dog shit and almost every team that have played it have now bombed out. England hopefully won't need to use it again.

Man City won the league playing 3 at the back. Chelsea won the champions league playing 3 at the back....

[Paninistickers]

11 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I think we might see 433 used for the first time this season. Something like this:

 

 

This type of team would be used against physical teams that out muscle / bully us. Hence some of the choices; Daka instead of Vardy to harass for 70 minutes till Vardy comes on late. No Maddison or Perez at 10, as we run three shuttlers in the middle of the park in the way Liverpool do. Ricardo and Castagne to overload the right hand side, even if neither is an out and out winger. Thomas has more energy than Bertrand, but using him for his experience and physical strength. West Ham would be the obvious team to use this against as they were the team that physically battered us the most, even if they stood of and counter attacked us.

 

 

 

It could also be something like this, a 352 instead of 3412. Think you would see Castagne as the third CB here because the way we play, the spare CB doubles up with the wing back to create an additional surprise threat.

 

In both systems players are interchangeable, but I think we will see a lot more rotation this season. Vardy plays against the big 6 and crucial must-win games. If we want to play one up top but rest Vardy, Daka comes in. If we want two strikers, we see Nacho as pick number 1, with Vardy or Daka to support him. Probably at least once this season when behind we see a Fergie style "put all of our strikers on the pitch" tactic when behind with Daka, Vardy, Nacho and even Perez on, before we inevitably lose!

 

4231 / 3412 / 442 Diamond will still be the main systems used, but having those 3 midfielders means we can play similar to Liverpool. The scousers under Klopp have a very interesting way of functioning because their midfielders aren't there for creativity, but more to trap and box the opposition in so they can't get out of their own half. Then you just wear down the opposition over time.

 

Last season Rodgers was fanastic against the top 6, who we struggled against in the previous season. But we lost too many games at home. So that's how we should measure him this time round. I don't think we will be quite as good against the top 6 this season, as we were freakishly good, but home losses to Villa, Leeds, West Ham, Fulham, etc have to be turned into minimum draws and better wins for me.

 

 

Yeah. Largely agree. But where's Fofana gone?

[FoxOnWheels]

We could always adapt and change to who we are playing against?

[StriderHiryu]

33 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Yeah. Largely agree. But where's Fofana gone?

Still gets used, but the other two are the first choice pairing. Fofana will still play 30-40 games, maybe even more. But I don't think we will see Fofana, Soyuncu and Evans all play together unless it's a must win match, e.g. semi-final or through injury. Vardy, Tielemans, Evans are out captains on the pitch and these must and will start the big games. But we now play around 50 games a season (!) so will rotate a lot. So I think we see a sequence like this: Premier League match Evans and Soyuncu start, midweek Europa game, Soyuncu and Fofana start, Premier League match, Evans and Fofana, rinse and repeat.

 

I feel like the biggest difference this upcoming season will be when we play our B team you think to yourself "is that our A team, or our B team?" It will be our strongest ever squad when everyone is fit. We are going to end up with a Bench of Daka, Fofana, Soumare, Praet, Perez, Ward, Albrighton, Bertrand, Iheanacho at times, which will be absolutely bonkers. We will be talking 100m of talent, most of it good talent on the bench to call upon. This is assuming we don't sign anyone else, and that's pretty unlikely given we lost two wingers in Gray and Under last season. If someone is not in form, they get left on the bench, or don't even make the squad at all. The competition for places will make several players massively raise their game, and if someone does break through like KDH, Sowah, they will surprise everyone the way Luke Thomas did.

 

Sadly despite that our squad is still not as good as the teams above us, but it will be absolutely ridiculous to look at when you think about the dark days of 12-15 years ago. 5th is most likely IMO, but think we will be in with a shout at Champions League again with a couple of games to go. But our best route in is to win the Europa. Villareal won it last time, and they aren't as good as we are.

[Nalis]

Good topic as I've been trying to figure it out a little with our new signings and how they fit in.

 

Ideally 4-3-3 but wide options are limited. Difficult to see us moving away from 3 at the back because of that.

 

A lot depends on injury and forms as said before. For example we know how good Ricardo was 2 seasons ago but on last season's form would he even get picked if our wide options werent limited? Flip reserve for Iheanacho of course.

 

Squad rotation will also be needed of course with the european fixture list so I think our 20 or so core first team squad will still get adequate game time and a fair chance to increase that if they play well.

 

Great problems to have in my view.

Edited 3 July 2021 by Nalis

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Man City won the league playing 3 at the back. Chelsea won the champions league playing 3 at the back....

Chelsea are one of the most turgid teams to watch, the wheels will come off Tuchel's reign if he continues to play that system with 5 defenders and 2 DCM's, I've seen signs of problems already.

 

There's very few teams that use 3 at the back that impress me. Atalanta are the best at it.

 

The point I was trying to make is that a lot of international teams have deployed it this summer, I assume because its becoming popular again and therefore managers copy others to try and nullify them. It's one of the hardest systems to execute well though and that's the point. It's dog shit if it isn't thoroughly executed with very very good wing backs and the right blend of midfielders. I know the same can be said for other formations but for example 4-2-3-1 you have much more support on the flanks and in the middle and harder to get exposed in the channels. 

 

If we continue with 3 at the back, fine. But we need a world class left wing back, a more dynamic number 10 and a left footed centre half. We might as well sell Harvey Barnes as well.

[UHDrive]

9 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

I think we might see 433 used for the first time this season. Something like this:

 

 

This type of team would be used against physical teams that out muscle / bully us. Hence some of the choices; Daka instead of Vardy to harass for 70 minutes till Vardy comes on late. No Maddison or Perez at 10, as we run three shuttlers in the middle of the park in the way Liverpool do. Ricardo and Castagne to overload the right hand side, even if neither is an out and out winger. Thomas has more energy than Bertrand, but using him for his experience and physical strength. West Ham would be the obvious team to use this against as they were the team that physically battered us the most, even if they stood of and counter attacked us.

 

 

 

It could also be something like this, a 352 instead of 3412. Think you would see Castagne as the third CB here because the way we play, the spare CB doubles up with the wing back to create an additional surprise threat.

 

In both systems players are interchangeable, but I think we will see a lot more rotation this season. Vardy plays against the big 6 and crucial must-win games. If we want to play one up top but rest Vardy, Daka comes in. If we want two strikers, we see Nacho as pick number 1, with Vardy or Daka to support him. Probably at least once this season when behind we see a Fergie style "put all of our strikers on the pitch" tactic when behind with Daka, Vardy, Nacho and even Perez on, before we inevitably lose!

 

4231 / 3412 / 442 Diamond will still be the main systems used, but having those 3 midfielders means we can play similar to Liverpool. The scousers under Klopp have a very interesting way of functioning because their midfielders aren't there for creativity, but more to trap and box the opposition in so they can't get out of their own half. Then you just wear down the opposition over time.

 

Last season Rodgers was fanastic against the top 6, who we struggled against in the previous season. But we lost too many games at home. So that's how we should measure him this time round. I don't think we will be quite as good against the top 6 this season, as we were freakishly good, but home losses to Villa, Leeds, West Ham, Fulham, etc have to be turned into minimum draws and better wins for me.

 

 

(Back 4)

Generally like the selection but 3 points if I may. 1st. On the back 4 version I'd put Evans as left CB and Fofana as right CB. RP as a RW isn't ideal. I'd consider that once we've broken down a team to then replace Soumare with maddison during games. Having said that, I like the balance of that formation.

(Back 3)

1st Is I wouldn't ever put Castagna (we desperately need a another CB) in a back 3, not sure he'd like it either. I'd swap Thomas for Bertrand due to his experience as a LFB and a LWB for pace and experience. I'd add madison in front of ndidi and take out iheanacho.

 

Fab formations though and we've come along way at a shocking rate now since the PL win that threw the 25 man squad into disarray and that we had to recover from which we did very quickly.

 

[FoxinNotts]

[Pliskin]

                          Kasper

Ricardo      Fofana      Cags    Castagne 

 

                   N’didi

                               Youri

 

New winger                             Barnes   
                         Maddison   
 

                             Daka 

 

—————————————————————

 

                            Kasper 

Castagne      Evans      Cags     Bertrand 

 

                             N’didi 

            Soumare                Youri

 

 

New winger.                             Barnes  

                             Daka 

—————————————————————

 

 

                            Kasper 

 

               Cags.     Evans.    Fofana 

Ricardo                                            Castagne 

 

                  N’didi 

                                           Youri

 

                           Maddison 

 

      Kalechi.                                  Daka 

[Nick]

It’s interesting isn’t it.

 

We haven’t had depth in our squad at CB or at 8 or 6 and now we have lots of people chucking in possible formations containing 3 CB’s and 3 DCM’s. Unless Soumare and Youri in this scenario can get further forward and be more creative there is gonna be a huge void between the midfield and the 3 forward ish players and subsequently a likely lack of goals.

 

I hope we play 4 at the back and rotate our quality CB’s and two maximum of Soumare, Youri, Ndidi and rotate leaving space for attacking players and leaving us with the depth in squad we so desperately have lacked over the last seasons.

[An Sionnach]

As usual the opposition will counteract any fixed formation so what I am looking for is a flexible system that can use our players versatility. We have the pace and individual skill to adapt to any given situation in a match. Rodgers will need to show us he can think creatively and quickly change a game plan if it isn't working.

[Nick]

Whilst there’s lots of options I see (or rather am hoping) the near future team maybe looking a bit like this with obviously Castagne, Bertrand, Evans, Soumare, Nacho, Daka and even Albrighton all rotated in and out so we can rest players in a 4231 or 4141. I also wonder if Daka will be tried on the right of a front three (4123 with Madders dropping back deeper adjacent to Youri) and maybe even as RW at some point:

 

………………Kasper

 

Ricardo Fofana Soyunco Thomas 

 

…………………Ndidi….

………Tielemans

New RW….Madders… Barnes

 

………….Vardy 

 

 

 

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

29 minutes ago, Nick said:

It’s interesting isn’t it.

 

We haven’t had depth in our squad at CB or at 8 or 6 and now we have lots of people chucking in possible formations containing 3 CB’s and 3 DCM’s. Unless Soumare and Youri in this scenario can get further forward and be more creative there is gonna be a huge void between the midfield and the 3 forward ish players and subsequently a likely lack of goals.

 

Not necessarily! Look at the way Liverpool played to win the title with Henderson, Wijnaldum and Fabinho. Those players aren’t creative, but their system works because those 3 are pressing machines which means their full backs can push so high up they are like wingers. Signing Soumare potentially allows us use that same system. 
 

Peak Liverpool steamrolled smaller teams whereas we had losses to several last season. This season we have the potential to fix it with a new solution. Whether or not we do is a different matter!

[FoxinNotts]

[lgfualol]

Will be a mix of 3412, 343, 433 and 4231 I guess. It is nice to have some options. I think we'll start the season how we ended the last one though, Brendan will surely keep playing Nacho and Vardy, and Soumare, Daka and Barnes will have to force their way in. 

[FoxinNotts]

9 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

With the players we’ve got at the moment 

 

433 

 

Kasper 

 

Timmy/Ricky

Evans 

Fofana/Soyuncu 

Bertrand 

 

Ndidi 

Youri 

Soumare 

 

Maddison 

Any of the 3 Strikers 

Barnes 

 

352 

 

Kasper 

 

Fofana 

Evans 

Soyuncu 

 

Timmy/Ricky 

Youri 

Ndidi 

Soumare/Maddison 

Thomas 

 

Iheanacho 

Vardy/Daka/Barnes 

 

4231 

 

Kasper 

 

Timmy/Ricky 

Evans 

Fofana/Soyuncu 

Bertrand 

 

Ndidi 

Youri 

 

Ricardo/Perez/Albrighton 

Maddison 

Barnes 

 

Any of the 3 strikers 

 

41212

 

Kasper 

 

Timmy/Ric 

Evans 

Wes/Cags 

Bertrand 

 

Ndidi 

Youri 

Soumare 

Madders

 

Iheanacho 

Vardy/Daka/Barnes 

 

343 

 

Kasper 

 

Fofana 

Evans 

Soyuncu 

 

Ricky/Tim 

Ndidi 

Youri 

Thomas 

 

Perez/Maddison 

Barnes 

Any of the 3 strikers 

 

442 

 

Kasper 

 

Ricky/Tim 

Evans 

Soyuncu/Fofana 

Bertrand 

 

Maddison/Albrighton 

Ndidi 

Youri 

Barnes 

 

Iheanacho 

Vardy/Daka

 

Take your pick, plenty of options to rotate and keep opposition guessing. Genuinely think Brendan could be planning to use any of those options across next season. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Magnificent. Looking really good isn’t it!

[sdb]

10 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

With the players we’ve got at the moment 

 

433 

 

Kasper 

 

Timmy/Ricky

Evans 

Fofana/Soyuncu 

Bertrand 

 

Ndidi 

Youri 

Soumare 

 

Maddison 

Any of the 3 Strikers 

Barnes 

 

352 

 

Kasper 

 

Fofana 

Evans 

Soyuncu 

 

Timmy/Ricky 

Youri 

Ndidi 

Soumare/Maddison 

Thomas 

 

Iheanacho 

Vardy/Daka/Barnes 

 

4231 

 

Kasper 

 

Timmy/Ricky 

Evans 

Fofana/Soyuncu 

Bertrand 

 

Ndidi 

Youri 

 

Ricardo/Perez/Albrighton 

Maddison 

Barnes 

 

Any of the 3 strikers 

 

41212

 

Kasper 

 

Timmy/Ric 

Evans 

Wes/Cags 

Bertrand 

 

Ndidi 

Youri 

Soumare 

Madders

 

Iheanacho 

Vardy/Daka/Barnes 

 

343 

 

Kasper 

 

Fofana 

Evans 

Soyuncu 

 

Ricky/Tim 

Ndidi 

Youri 

Thomas 

 

Perez/Maddison 

Barnes 

Any of the 3 strikers 

 

442 

 

Kasper 

 

Ricky/Tim 

Evans 

Soyuncu/Fofana 

Bertrand 

 

Maddison/Albrighton 

Ndidi 

Youri 

Barnes 

 

Iheanacho 

Vardy/Daka

 

Take your pick, plenty of options to rotate and keep opposition guessing. Genuinely think Brendan could be planning to use any of those options across next season. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That looks better than the other posts, but that's because we're trying compensate for no naturally prolific right winger and so any XI looks disjointed or fails to maximise our best players. It's a glaring hole in the squad that has to be addressed in the next 6 weeks if we're to try for top 4 again. 

[sdb]

I think our best XI would be:

 

Kasper

 

Castagne

Fofana

Evans

Justin

 

Ndidi

Youri

Madders

 

Perez

Vardy 

Barnes 

 

Perez the obvious weak link. Justin obviously out so hopefully Ricardo can regain form and go to RB with Timmy LB. But imagine that side with a right wing Barnes equivalent. 

Edited 3 July 2021 by sdb

[sdb]

Just now, pmcla26 said:

I think with the addition of Soumare that Maddison could be utilised in that position at times next season, or we just go for two strikers and play formations without a right winger.
 

I’m hoping we bring a young prospect in like Damsgaard or Madueke to nurture into that position over the next couple of seasons. 

Same! As for Madders RW, I just don't think it suits him.