Rethinking Player Roles - Who and Why?

[fuchsntf]

52 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

The issue is, and always will be, that this isn't football manager. 

 

No matter how poor he's been, Vestegaard has had a lifetime of developing a skillset at centerback. He's not suddenly going to become anywhere near capable as a midfielder. 

 

He'll have had thousands of hours of training sessions with defensive units. It doesn't just go away. They're people, not spreadsheets of abilities. Just because he can pass doesn't mean he'll immediately develop the timing and vision of a midfield player. 

 

I can't think of many players that retrained in another position with us and even fewer who were successful at it. 

I reckon if you go go from the mid-60s...Not just at Leicester...

Normal English & European Teams & Top teams, had players swapping ,ex-Changing roles, and quite a few very successfully..

Two seasons ago I mentioned..players like Barnes,...Ricardo...Castagna..Gray..but got chastised..The Fans who complained,were ones I respected most,

Never thought how blind they had been over their supporting years...Those Four mentioned players had already played different Roles..

I could go around the World & Pull out 100s if Not 1000s, some high caliber,some Great Int.captains some who just had decent careers.

Its the Fans, who are on this topic, slow in the pick-up, anything from 1-5 years...

One very negative role Change IMO,from 2-3 of our own managers, that IMO realise bis career, was Andy King...

His best performances/periods , before, during , then after, looked a natural was at AM & ghosting & interfacing between the Front & midfield lines..

 We lost his attributes, when we asked him to either hold back, or Play DM...I

 

I am Not going to make any total list, just a few of our very own Leicester players, & Not in any  order, & some just Moved across the line.

Managers who changed players roles, went from Dave Halliday ,Matt  Gillies, eras right upto Now

 

Players...

Mclintock...Cross, Nish, Glover, lineker ,Vardy, Walsh,Elliot Weller, Birchenall ( only 1 Real season, because of injury)

dropping into midfield was inspired & caught the Imagination of not just our own fans, but being mentioned at England- level.He like   G.Cross was chosen for Representative Match ( big back then) but injury Curtailed that.!

 

 

I mean also Kante cos he had the Audacity to Cover every Blade of grass ...( Cheeky)

 

 

[mozartfox]

16 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I expect the guy is in dire need of a few weeks getting properly fit and integrated.

This is probably spot on.

[TAFKA Castroneves]

2 hours ago, foxile5 said:

The issue is, and always will be, that this isn't football manager. 

 

No matter how poor he's been, Vestegaard has had a lifetime of developing a skillset at centerback. He's not suddenly going to become anywhere near capable as a midfielder. 

 

He'll have had thousands of hours of training sessions with defensive units. It doesn't just go away. They're people, not spreadsheets of abilities. Just because he can pass doesn't mean he'll immediately develop the timing and vision of a midfield player. 

 

I can't think of many players that retrained in another position with us and even fewer who were successful at it. 

 

Fair points mate, however we do have some history of having players like this in the past - remember a little known player called Steve Walsh? A CB who often played as a striker. Emile Heskey? Started as a left winger and was retrained into a striker. Jeff Schlupp - started as a striker, retrained into finally a LWB. So while it’s not football manager we’ve had numerous examples of it in our history 🤷‍♂️ you think if we’d just kept Walshy as a CB we would have potentially missed out on some glory years that subsequently followed under O’Neill. Football is fine margins and open mindiness there got the job done.

 

I knew going with Vestegaard first as an idea was no doubt going to bring out those who have made their minds up about him 😂 glass half full and glass half empty scenario. 

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, foxile5 said:

Definitely on Walsh and Marshall didn't really switch with us, did he? 

 

But they were playing in an entirely different era. No way the over trained professionals are making switches with readiness these days. 

Although there at the time and Walshy, Captain Fantastic, was my absolute favourite inspirational player at the time, I can't honestly remember how or why his transition from centre half to centre forward happened. Was it just that we were short and needs must? He was bloody good at both though! That iconic photo against Derby in the playoffs relives the joy and excitement of that special spit in time for everyone that was there every time they see it!

 

As for Marshall, who changed position in the opposite direction, I thought he did that here but can't remember with any conviction though to be honest. At centre half he did seem to score as many as our forwards though 😆. In particular I remember the goal against Atlético Madrid. Another favourite moment was when he and Claridge walked onto the pitch at the start of the game both with their socks down and the commentator, who was commenting on the various players coming on stated that it looked as if Leicester City were fielding a couple of itinerants today 🤣🤣. Doubt we'll hear a line like that again!

 

I suppose you're right about overtraining today however, the game has changed so much. Who'd have thought that a goalkeeper could double up as a sweeper so well? Also, at times, the traditional number 9 has been done away with Man City and Liverpool showing that they can field a number of regular goalscorers from different interchangeable positions. 

 

Does it make the game better? Not really, just different. Manchester United were playing one touch free flowing football in some classically entertaining matches in the 90s. I also remember Ajax and total football!

 

Some of today's football is mind-blowingly dull at times including some of our offerings currently and last season though a little better at the moment. Sometimes it's just the media hype that convinces some that footballs the best it's ever been whereas sometimes I think it's actually regressed. Each era has it's great moments but I wouldn't say the present era is best for the supporter personally. 

[TAFKA Castroneves]

Is Amartey someone we’d now classify as having been retrained or redeployed as a CB for us long term? DM for Copenhagen, been with us for years and we’ve tried that under Claudio, then he was RB for a bit which didn’t work and a lot of fans got on his back - now he’s revered as being one of our better CBS this season. 

 

Just a thought 🦊 

[An Sionnach]

48 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Some of today's football is mind-blowingly dull at times including some of our offerings currently and last season though a little better at the moment. Sometimes it's just the media hype that convinces some that footballs the best it's ever been whereas sometimes I think it's actually regressed. Each era has it's great moments but I wouldn't say the present era is best for the supporter personally. 

Biggest change in football is referees are far stricter on physical contact and this has allowed smaller slighter footballers to sustain a career. Many of these players are highly skilled and that seems to make the standard higher. These players,like Bernardo Silva for instance, would not have had a career thirty years ago. Is football better for it? A matter of personal opinion , but I think the balance has shifted too far.

[Golden Fox]

                         Vetergaard

         Ihenacho    Ndidi    Soumare
Vardy                                          Tielemans
                          Soyuncu
              Castange        Schmeichel  

 

                  Ricardo        Barnes
 

A big unit in goal - Vetergaard

A back 3 with a mix of strength & tacking - Ndidi already done this role

Vardy bombing up and down one wing with Tielemans supplying pinpoint crosses from the other

Soyuncu bossing the midfield with less risk of a mistake costing a goal

Schmeichel where he belongs in the middle of the action alongside Castange who has the skills to slot in anywhere

And a lot pace up front with Ricardo and Barnes

 

I guarantee Arsenal won't be game planning to play against this set-up. 

[Sly]

Vestergaard has the agility of a road cone. This is why he’s a centre back. 

[Izzy]

18 minutes ago, Golden Fox said:

                         Vetergaard

         Ihenacho    Ndidi    Soumare
Vardy                                          Tielemans
                          Soyuncu
              Castange        Schmeichel  

 

                  Ricardo        Barnes
 

A big unit in goal - Vetergaard

A back 3 with a mix of strength & tacking - Ndidi already done this role

Vardy bombing up and down one wing with Tielemans supplying pinpoint crosses from the other

Soyuncu bossing the midfield with less risk of a mistake costing a goal

Schmeichel where he belongs in the middle of the action alongside Castange who has the skills to slot in anywhere

And a lot pace up front with Ricardo and Barnes

 

I guarantee Arsenal won't be game planning to play against this set-up. 

Tbh I’d have no issue playing Ricardo up front. He’s quick enough and has a good eye for goal. Reckon he’d do ok actually 

[fazzyfox]

At the moment whilst we play the wing backs and two CF's, Harvey Barnes misses out, traditionally we switch between the systems, sometimes during a match depending on how things are going so it's not like he's going to become a spare part long term. The question could be, whilst playing that system where could he contribute. We have 3 in form CF's but would Perez be ahead of him to come on and do a job up there if both CF's tired or got a knock, or for Madison, again would Perez be the first choice replacement for Rodgers there. When we play a front two I can see him doing a decent job, perhaps not finding the same amount of space to run in to as he does out wide but powerful and an improved finisher recently. Of course Daka is ahead of him in that queue but we won't always have the three CF's fit and available (Nacho going to AFCON?). While we're winning games (and F.A.Cups) I don't mind who has to miss out but he is the noticeable one and importantly at an age of development where you don't want too much of a momentum break, already having one due to injury. It's a long season with hopefully lots of cup games to factor in as well, we'll need everyone, just a thought that if he can get some time as a CF, along with the integration of Daka and Nacho being a consistent goal threat it will make Vardy's eventual wind down more cohesive.

 

[Vazman]

1 hour ago, Golden Fox said:

                         Vetergaard

         Ihenacho    Ndidi    Soumare
Vardy                                          Tielemans
                          Soyuncu
              Castange        Schmeichel  

 

                  Ricardo        Barnes
 

A big unit in goal - Vetergaard

A back 3 with a mix of strength & tacking - Ndidi already done this role

Vardy bombing up and down one wing with Tielemans supplying pinpoint crosses from the other

Soyuncu bossing the midfield with less risk of a mistake costing a goal

Schmeichel where he belongs in the middle of the action alongside Castange who has the skills to slot in anywhere

And a lot pace up front with Ricardo and Barnes

 

I guarantee Arsenal won't be game planning to play against this set-up. 

Cant believe Kasper didn't make the starting 11...

[Vazman]

3 minutes ago, Vazman said:

Cant believe Kasper didn't make the starting 11...

Sorry he did make the starting 11...

[Foxxed]

5 hours ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

Rethinking player roles

Soumare needs to be in some kind of "meet and greet" hospitality role.

 

 

 

 

[Duquesne Whistle]

1 minute ago, Foxxed said:

Soumare needs to be in some kind of "meet and greet" hospitality role.

 

 

 

 

Possibly a steward. If he told me to sit the feck down with a stare like that, I'd take a seat. 

[Foxxed]

8 minutes ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

Possibly a steward. If he told me to sit the feck down with a stare like that, I'd take a seat. 

It's a pity we don't still haveworking here. Maybe they share the same spirit.

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

Biggest change in football is referees are far stricter on physical contact and this has allowed smaller slighter footballers to sustain a career. Many of these players are highly skilled and that seems to make the standard higher. These players,like Bernardo Silva for instance, would not have had a career thirty years ago. Is football better for it? A matter of personal opinion , but I think the balance has shifted too far.

Very true. Mind you, Franny Lee wasn't bad for a little un but it also has to be said, he was an aggressive little sod 🤣. At 5'5" Billy Bremner would notoriously pick a fight with the biggest player he could find. The smaller players I can remember weren't afraid of getting in a big guys face then or as you rightly say, they didn't have a career. 

[An Sionnach]

25 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Very true. Mind you, Franny Lee wasn't bad for a little un but it also has to be said, he was an aggressive little sod 🤣. At 5'5" Billy Bremner would notoriously pick a fight with the biggest player he could find. The smaller players I can remember weren't afraid of getting in a big guys face then or as you rightly say, they didn't have a career. 

Fran and Billy were short but some short players are very strongly built. Maddison is the perfect example of a modern footballer , highly skilled but very lightly built. One good tackle from somebody like Matt Elliott would have left him in pieces.

[MalletFox]

17 hours ago, Stadt said:

Crikey.

 

Vestergaard in midfield would require some sort of humanitarian intervention on our behalf. Please will our fans stop honing in on one of our player’s attributes and extrapolating that into player y should be played out of position, ahead of players that actually play in that position.

Imagine how Hamza would feel if BR drafted Vesty into CDM ahead of him!!! Hahaha! Ahhh that’s actually just made up for the lack of sleep I got last night thinking about it. Good times!

[Jazzy_Jeff]

The only potential move I could think of is Choudhury to RWB. He’s quick with a good engine and loves a tackle. 

[volpeazzurro]

3 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

Fran and Billy were short but some short players are very strongly built. Maddison is the perfect example of a modern footballer , highly skilled but very lightly built. One good tackle from somebody like Matt Elliott would have left him in pieces.

😆 can't argue with that.