What has changed at the club?

[Ric Flair]

The board have to consider whether the persistent injury problems we've had in the last 2 years and to a certain degree a similar pattern that Rodgers experienced at other clubs is Brendan's fault and likewise whether he can be trusted to rebuild a squad that's heading for an overhaul because again past history suggests he can't. If we the fans and the board don't think they are questions that should be directed at Brendam or his responsibility then let's crack on and see where that takes us.

 

Once you start being open to the suggestion that yes Rodgers theoretically ought to be accountable for this then it becomes much harder to blindly stick up for him and trust he'll sort it out.

[sacreblueits442]

28 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The board have to consider whether the persistent injury problems we've had in the last 2 years and to a certain degree a similar pattern that Rodgers experienced at other clubs is Brendan's fault and likewise whether he can be trusted to rebuild a squad that's heading for an overhaul because again past history suggests he can't. If we the fans and the board don't think they are questions that should be directed at Brendam or his responsibility then let's crack on and see where that takes us.

 

Once you start being open to the suggestion that yes Rodgers theoretically ought to be accountable for this then it becomes much harder to blindly stick up for him and trust he'll sort it out.

....this option takes us back to square one, how much will it cost to terminate his contract and who do we bring in, and when!!!

We are at the mercy of Rodgers to choose when he decides to go. By the time there is proof that his rebuild is unsuccessful, it will be too late and we are going to have a squad where it will take a few seasons to offload and bring in suitable players to achieve what we are looking to achieve.

  Unless there is clear evidence that the club can see, that he is incapable of turning this around, he is going nowhere.

 

 

[Ric Flair]

13 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....this option takes us back to square one, how much will it cost to terminate his contract and who do we bring in, and when!!!

We are at the mercy of Rodgers to choose when he decides to go. By the time there is proof that his rebuild is unsuccessful, it will be too late and we are going to have a squad where it will take a few seasons to offload and bring in suitable players to achieve what we are looking to achieve.

  Unless there is clear evidence that the club can see, that he is incapable of turning this around, he is going nowhere.

 

 

Yeah it doesn't make for good viewing either way you cut it. That £10m a year we're paying him will mean at least a year's wages paid up to him if we decide he's no longer than man to lead us.

[moore_94]

 

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

 

Jannick Vestergaard yet to be on the winning side for us when starting a PL game. Really hope he never plays for us again. 

[cruzFOX]

although I really really don’t want to think this season has slipped away as if feels like we are slowly surrendering half of me is preparing for just that. We all were hoping for a strong finish to a 2nd half of the season but the longer this goes the less likely it’s going to happen. I’m now literally banking ALL my hopes on foffana to come back and Ricardo too. Maybe a very slim chance we do finish strong just as teams above us start to go thru their blips. 🙏🏽
foxes never quit!

[Babylon]

On 24/01/2022 at 13:52, Ric Flair said:

What's changed? The recruitment model for a start and Rodgers is managing to get what he wants in terms of staff and process.

 

One of the only downsides to this last couple of years success is the belief amongst the club that the XI couldn't or shouldn't be changed and instead better squad players were needed to help last the pace but if you sign players capable of improving the XI then the squad improves overall. Players better than what we had in our XI aren't easy to get and certainly not cheap but it feels we've wasted money on quantity over quality and still have problems that have been around for the majority of Rodgers time here.

 

I thought it could be a mistake not moving on a replaceable high value asset last summer and being able to strengthen further, that was what single handedly allowed us to get Ricardo, Maddison and Soyuncu in in 2018 and Tielemans in 2019. Everything is starting to slow down and stagnate a little. Feels like we need an overhaul with several players looking like they want a new challenge or on the decline.

 

The club need to wrestle back control on the entire recruitment process, get back to recruiting young players for low fees with the intention to improve them and sell for massive fees and reinvest and grow. We were and hopefully still are masters at it. Our reputation of developing players and them being sought after preceded us and a lot of the hard work had already been done to keep the demand and desire from the elite for our players. That may have been a huge frustration to some of our fans but once the hype diminishes and the clubs with all the wealth start to look elsewhere or are no longer willing to hugely overpay for our players then we'll experience the consequences.

 

 

How has the recruitment model changed? We bought Daka and Soumare in the summer? Buying and up and coming CB or LB made absolutely no sense at all considering the makeup of our team. We've also signed JJ and Fofana under his watch. I see little difference in our squad building, as it's always been mixed. 

[Babylon]

On 24/01/2022 at 08:17, Winsum said:

When Rodgers was appointed the story was that the aim was to disrupt the top six.

Three years on and a new training ground and the prospect of a stadium expansion and the

story changes

We are mid table and the club is over achieving says Rodgers.

Are there off the field issues ?

 

Well he didn't really say any of that, so there is your first problem. 

[Babylon]

On 24/01/2022 at 12:41, MattFox said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/565893/global-turnover-of-king-power-international-group/
 

King Powers revenue has fallen off a cliff due the pandemic.

 

Although the fact they are going ahead with the stadium suggests things are picking up again

They didn't fund us anyway, so I'm not sure why it's even relevant. Only since the pandemic have they put more money in, and that's because we lost huge amounts. 

[Vazman]

On 24/01/2022 at 11:58, Dusty said:

Why are people talking about wanting new owners? How fickle do you have to be. We have the best owners in world football. Just because they don’t invest as heavily in transfers as other owners doesn’t mean we should wish for different ones. 

The club wouldn’t even be in this division without them, let alone winning it, competing in Europe, winning the fa cup, training at one of the best facilities in the world or expanding the stadium. 
 

Get a grip, doesn’t matter if we don’t sign someone every window. 

To be fair I dont think anyone on here is asking for New owners, as far as I can see no one has a bad word to say about the owners and rightly so an incredibly well run club.

 

[KingsX]

On 24/01/2022 at 08:20, dannythefox said:

there’s loads that have only supported us in our resent years

 

No January transfers … bloody tinpot version of European football ... wrong color shorts … and that ****ing FA Cup was months ago!!

 

 

 

 

(I trust any resentment about, won't define the entire era for the club)

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

How has the recruitment model changed? We bought Daka and Soumare in the summer? Buying and up and coming CB or LB made absolutely no sense at all considering the makeup of our team. We've also signed JJ and Fofana under his watch. I see little difference in our squad building, as it's always been mixed. 

It's changed in the mix of signings we make but only ever so slightly and is more a possible over reaction than a real stark shift in system.

 

We no longer look at the lower leagues, or tend to show serious interest in unproven young players in the £10-15m region. Instead it's been more players of the likes of Castagne, Praet, Perez, Vestergaard. 

 

None of that would be an issue but every single one of those hasn't really done a lot here vs the likes of Maddison, Justin, Soyuncu etc. 

 

The one plus point to the slight shift is Lookman, he'd not have been the sort of player we'd have gone for post Pearson and pre Rodgers. 

 

PS I forget Justin came here that 1st season under Rodgers, we'd spent the entire summer before being linked with him but so had Celtic so it was clearly a signing that pleased all parties.

[Babylon]

17 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It's changed in the mix of signings we make but only ever so slightly and is more a possible over reaction than a real stark shift in system.

 

We no longer look at the lower leagues, or tend to show serious interest in unproven young players in the £10-15m region. Instead it's been more players of the likes of Castagne, Praet, Perez, Vestergaard. 

 

None of that would be an issue but every single one of those hasn't really done a lot here vs the likes of Maddison, Justin, Soyuncu etc. 

 

The one plus point to the slight shift is Lookman, he'd not have been the sort of player we'd have gone for post Pearson and pre Rodgers. 

 

PS I forget Justin came here that 1st season under Rodgers, we'd spent the entire summer before being linked with him but so had Celtic so it was clearly a signing that pleased all parties.

Maddison cost £25m.

Soyuncu £19m+

When was the last time we were buying young unproven players for £10-£15m?

 

Any shift on age of signings is because we’d already recruited a large number of young players and had no need for more of them. 
 

Signing players off those ages made perfect sense, they were just poor signings. 
 

Daka and Soumare were 22 when we signed them. A year or two younger than Kante when we got him. Only difference is price, but the market has moved on. 

[Ric Flair]

25 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Maddison cost £25m.

Soyuncu £19m+

When was the last time we were buying young unproven players for £10-£15m?

 

Any shift on age of signings is because we’d already recruited a large number of young players and had no need for more of them. 
 

Signing players off those ages made perfect sense, they were just poor signings. 
 

Daka and Soumare were 22 when we signed them. A year or two younger than Kante when we got him. Only difference is price, but the market has moved on. 

Precisely my point, strongly linked but opted not to seriously go for Bowen, Olise both in that price range. Instead spent double that on the likes of Perez and Praet who haven't done anywhere near what those two have done so far. 

 

I get we perhaps didn't need loads more young and unproven players but it's still those players that we do sign who do well and the ones who are proven or experienced winners are a waste of money.

[CrispinLA in Texas]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Precisely my point, strongly linked but opted not to seriously go for Bowen, Olise both in that price range. Instead spent double that on the likes of Perez and Praet who haven't done anywhere near what those two have done so far. 

 

I get we perhaps didn't need loads more young and unproven players but it's still those players that we do sign who do well and the ones who are proven or experienced winners are a waste of money.

Good points......I feel players like Perez, Vestergaard and Bertrand have played in the EPL for years and so as the saying goes they have 'done it, seen it' and it's nothing new to them so they don't see going to another EPL club as an exciting challenge.

It's like if your moving home to a house in the same street in your city or your moving abroad to a different country, the latter is always more exciting and thus u give it more while with the former it's the same environment thus your used to it and your kind of remain the same. 

Hope you guys understand!

Edited 25 January 2022 by CrispinLA in Texas

[HesNotGudjonsonn2]

Why aren’t we Man City yet except with a couple of Champions League wins and the World Cup! 

[Deebhoy]

Massive and constant defensive injuries and loss of form early season of Ndidi, Barnes and Maddison and to some extent Vardy have significantly impacted the team. Maddison looks better but Barnes is still off. I'm sure Vardy would have found form again if he wasn't injured whilst Ndidi hasn't looked like himself at all. I also thought Soumare would do better.

 

Brendan isn't blameless, tactically he has got it badly wrong on occasions, but sometimes you have a combination of situations that happen that would challenge any club. 

[Babylon]

10 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Precisely my point, strongly linked but opted not to seriously go for Bowen, Olise both in that price range. Instead spent double that on the likes of Perez and Praet who haven't done anywhere near what those two have done so far. 

 

I get we perhaps didn't need loads more young and unproven players but it's still those players that we do sign who do well and the ones who are proven or experienced winners are a waste of money.

Bowen cost £22m, not £10-15m.

 

So sign better players, we’ve also signed young players who were a waste of money. Benkovic, Krameric, Kapustka. 
 

It’s a scouting problem, not an age problem. I seem to remember a large number of older players doing rather well not long ago.

[Supergray22]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Bowen cost £22m, not £10-15m.

 

So sign better players, we’ve also signed young players who were a waste of money. Benkovic, Krameric, Kapustka. 
 

It’s a scouting problem, not an age problem. I seem to remember a large number of older players doing rather well not long ago.

You both come up with some great points and are referring to strategy. Sign players who still have ‘fire in their belly’ or ‘eye of the tiger’ and not those who want to sit on their salary and take it easy. We publicly stated not long ago our model to buy players who we can coach and improve both for the benefit of the club  in the short medium term but to sell on at a profit to fund further such purchases. Our strategy of late has been more reactive rather than the proactive strategy suggested. We recruit to fill current gaps and perceived weaknesses rather than to improve the squad generally and improve us longer term.
There are understandable reasons for this shift such as our catastrophic injury list last year or so. That is a separate issue that needs investigation and resolving as best we can. Another is as you say poor scouting/ recruitment which undermines the perceived value of the strategy. We also have to accept that the strategy will sometimes result in the sale of some of our beloved players for the longer term good. This is not palatable to some people. I’m a sentimental old git myself. It wouldn’t hurt for the club to communicate the strategy more often so we understand decisions better and departures from the strategy. 
Constant changes of the strategy or non playing staff are Not  the answer though as they disrupt the application of this. Occasional adjustments to non playing staff/strategy to make improvements or correct underperformance Are needed. 

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

Bowen cost £22m, not £10-15m.

 

So sign better players, we’ve also signed young players who were a waste of money. Benkovic, Krameric, Kapustka. 
 

It’s a scouting problem, not an age problem. I seem to remember a large number of older players doing rather well not long ago.

Fair point, we were quoted £15m for Bowen but maybe I'd have been better describing the type of player rather than the price bracket.

 

We've certainly been happier to look in the £20-30m price bracket more and more where it gets you a bit more supposed proven experience but not necessarily got any more guarantee they'll succeed.

 

I get nervous when we sign players from the PL, especially north of 25 who are either established players at their clubs and cost a significant fee that is unlikely to be recouped or are fringe players and again likely to be a waste. Our record at signing any player over the age of 25 in recent years hasn't been very good at all and that's not even from a monetary point of view where recouping money isn't always the be all and end all if they make an impact, but the likes of Iborra, Silva, Vestergaard, Perez, Bertrand, Ghezzal, Bennett, Slimani have all been terrible value for money or just damn right dog shit. 

 

Not sure why we have trouble scouting the right experienced and proven players but they just seldom do well here. Maybe it's harder for them to integrate or be allowed to adapt to what's required. It's not easy coming in and be expected to make an immediate impact for a top half PL team. Either way, stop buying them 😂

[coolhandfox]

Buying players is not an exact science, they are human beings which make it tricky

 

The trick is to get more right then you get wrong, we are still doing well on that front the majority of the time.

 

 

People just look for extra sticks to being BR to suit there agenda.

[Babylon]

49 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Fair point, we were quoted £15m for Bowen but maybe I'd have been better describing the type of player rather than the price bracket.

 

We've certainly been happier to look in the £20-30m price bracket more and more where it gets you a bit more supposed proven experience but not necessarily got any more guarantee they'll succeed.

 

I get nervous when we sign players from the PL, especially north of 25 who are either established players at their clubs and cost a significant fee that is unlikely to be recouped or are fringe players and again likely to be a waste. Our record at signing any player over the age of 25 in recent years hasn't been very good at all and that's not even from a monetary point of view where recouping money isn't always the be all and end all if they make an impact, but the likes of Iborra, Silva, Vestergaard, Perez, Bertrand, Ghezzal, Bennett, Slimani have all been terrible value for money or just damn right dog shit. 

 

Not sure why we have trouble scouting the right experienced and proven players but they just seldom do well here. Maybe it's harder for them to integrate or be allowed to adapt to what's required. It's not easy coming in and be expected to make an immediate impact for a top half PL team. Either way, stop buying them 😂

“Stop buying bad players”.

 

Noted.

[ARM1968]

It’s all going the wrong way. We are doomed. DOOMED. 
 

I mean, that’s just a good old bit of Dad’s army hyperbole, but we probably are, doomed. 

[Ric Flair]

52 minutes ago, Babylon said:

“Stop buying bad players”.

 

Noted.

" Stop buying players over the age of 25 as our track record is heinous " 

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

" Stop buying players over the age of 25 as our track record is heinous " 

You can’t just have a team full of young players Ric.