What has changed at the club?

[sacreblueits442]

27 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

You quoted wealth saying we were in the top 20 richest clubs, so what I'm saying is there's still at least 7 clubs above us in the premier League in that list. So we aren't far off where we should be based on wealth. 

 

With this in mind, this is exactly why we haven't made it as you think, we are perhaps stronger than we ever have been, in my lifetime at least but I would suggest theres a huge difference from getting to the top and then being able to stay there. I think we are doing a great job in building to be bigger long term but also that a difficult season around mid table was always likely at some point. 

....the to 20 richest club statement was just to illustrate we are better financed now that we have ever been!!!

I am not saying it entitles us to anything but better options. What we do with those options is dictated by the man at the helm. There is always going to be the possibility of a poor season, but if we contribute by poor tactics and failure to correct issues on the pitch, no one is going to sit back and accept that.

  We have no right to be top 6, but we are right to expect them to fight for it.

[turlo]

10 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...not too sure how many times it needs to be said, but KP does not fund the club, we are self sustainable!!!

They were providing us with a working capital loan during the pandemic and our debts with KP went up by over 100m to approx 140m on 2020 accounts (the last accounts issued in early 2021) It was listed as something like a loan payable on demand. Was this for the training ground or part of refinancing the loans from Marquis onto better terms with KP?

[Ric Flair]

What's changed? The recruitment model for a start and Rodgers is managing to get what he wants in terms of staff and process.

 

One of the only downsides to this last couple of years success is the belief amongst the club that the XI couldn't or shouldn't be changed and instead better squad players were needed to help last the pace but if you sign players capable of improving the XI then the squad improves overall. Players better than what we had in our XI aren't easy to get and certainly not cheap but it feels we've wasted money on quantity over quality and still have problems that have been around for the majority of Rodgers time here.

 

I thought it could be a mistake not moving on a replaceable high value asset last summer and being able to strengthen further, that was what single handedly allowed us to get Ricardo, Maddison and Soyuncu in in 2018 and Tielemans in 2019. Everything is starting to slow down and stagnate a little. Feels like we need an overhaul with several players looking like they want a new challenge or on the decline.

 

The club need to wrestle back control on the entire recruitment process, get back to recruiting young players for low fees with the intention to improve them and sell for massive fees and reinvest and grow. We were and hopefully still are masters at it. Our reputation of developing players and them being sought after preceded us and a lot of the hard work had already been done to keep the demand and desire from the elite for our players. That may have been a huge frustration to some of our fans but once the hype diminishes and the clubs with all the wealth start to look elsewhere or are no longer willing to hugely overpay for our players then we'll experience the consequences.

 

 

[sacreblueits442]

1 minute ago, turlo said:

They were providing us with a working capital loan during the pandemic and our debts with KP went up by over 100m to approx 140m on 2020 accounts (the last accounts issued in early 2021) It was listed as something like a loan payable on demand. Was this for the training ground or part of refinancing the loans from Marquis onto better terms with KP?

....as I have not seen the accounts for 2020, I can only hazard a guess that KP instigated the loan and has to put it against our balance sheet for accountancy and audit purposes!!!

[sacreblueits442]

6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I thought it could be a mistake not moving on a replaceable high value asset last summer and being able to strengthen further, that was what single handedly allowed us to get Ricardo, Maddison and Soyuncu in in 2018 and Tielemans in 2019. Everything is starting to slow down and stagnate a little. Feels like we need an overhaul with several players looking like they want a new challenge or on the decline.

 

....the market was not exactly jumping at the time, with Covid, injuries and players massively off form, we were not likely to have got the prices which we would have sought!!!

[Ric Flair]

9 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....the market was not exactly jumping at the time, with Covid, injuries and players massively off form, we were not likely to have got the prices which we would have sought!!!

I'm not saying we are the only ones to dictate this and you might be right that circumstances are now going against our ability to carry on manipulating the market and our reputation but I've seen this with successful clubs who start to alter what got them there in the first place and what works for them in the belief that that will help keep them there and it doesn't. 

 

The simple economics are, in order to try and stay on the coat tails of the elite that we have to improve our XI and squad year on year, not to mention reward our influential players with new contracts to a) keep them here and motivated and b) to protect their value. The difficulties in doing that is not only is our wage structure maximised to the full but then the budget for transfers each summer without moving players on is also heavily challenged. 

 

The delicate balance is, to enable our wage structure to have room for manoeuvre each year we have to be able to sell replaceable high value assets on bigger wages as they were successful and well renumerated players and use the short term cash flows from the sale to strengthen the squad overall. That conveyor built keeps on going like it did in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020. 

[An Sionnach]

1. Rodgers, Ruskin, Davies, Congerton , Sadler . Anything in common? Never played football at a high level any of them.  Touré is the only exception. Does it matter? I think it does. If it was Rodgers alone OK ,but all of them. Guardiola for instance was a top class player and that brings respect.

Edited 24 January 2022 by An Sionnach

[volpeazzurro]

37 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

What's changed? The recruitment model for a start and Rodgers is managing to get what he wants in terms of staff and process.

 

One of the only downsides to this last couple of years success is the belief amongst the club that the XI couldn't or shouldn't be changed and instead better squad players were needed to help last the pace but if you sign players capable of improving the XI then the squad improves overall. Players better than what we had in our XI aren't easy to get and certainly not cheap but it feels we've wasted money on quantity over quality and still have problems that have been around for the majority of Rodgers time here.

 

I thought it could be a mistake not moving on a replaceable high value asset last summer and being able to strengthen further, that was what single handedly allowed us to get Ricardo, Maddison and Soyuncu in in 2018 and Tielemans in 2019. Everything is starting to slow down and stagnate a little. Feels like we need an overhaul with several players looking like they want a new challenge or on the decline.

 

The club need to wrestle back control on the entire recruitment process, get back to recruiting young players for low fees with the intention to improve them and sell for massive fees and reinvest and grow. We were and hopefully still are masters at it. Our reputation of developing players and them being sought after preceded us and a lot of the hard work had already been done to keep the demand and desire from the elite for our players. That may have been a huge frustration to some of our fans but once the hype diminishes and the clubs with all the wealth start to look elsewhere or are no longer willing to hugely overpay for our players then we'll experience the consequences.

 

 

That makes utter sense.

[Lambert09]

11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm not saying we are the only ones to dictate this and you might be right that circumstances are now going against our ability to carry on manipulating the market and our reputation but I've seen this with successful clubs who start to alter what got them there in the first place and what works for them in the belief that that will help keep them there and it doesn't. 

 

The simple economics are, in order to try and stay on the coat tails of the elite that we have to improve our XI and squad year on year, not to mention reward our influential players with new contracts to a) keep them here and motivated and b) to protect their value. The difficulties in doing that is not only is our wage structure maximised to the full but then the budget for transfers each summer without moving players on is also heavily challenged. 

 

The delicate balance is, to enable our wage structure to have room for manoeuvre each year we have to be able to sell replaceable high value assets on bigger wages as they were successful and well renumerated players and use the short term cash flows from the sale to strengthen the squad overall. That conveyor built keeps on going like it did in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020. 

I think this year in a way was bad luck or bad recruitment whatever way you look at it. 

an experienced full back to help grow Luke Thomas and cover us was needed. Someone like bertrand on paper made a lot of sense and should have been more risk free than someone from Overseas... but both him and vestergarde have been worse than anyone could have imagined.

 

If We’d have got what we had expected then we probably would have all been happy.  
 

soumare was clearly a succession planning signing.. again just hasn’t been the player expected.  I don’t necessarily think the clubs logic or profiles were wrong... just the wrong players were signed  (combined with a crazy injury list that increased their importance)

 

 

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

I think this year in a way was bad luck or bad recruitment whatever way you look at it. 

an experienced full back to help grow Luke Thomas and cover us was needed. Someone like bertrand on paper made a lot of sense and should have been more risk free than someone from Overseas... but both him and vestergarde have been worse than anyone could have imagined.

 

If We’d have got what we had expected then we probably would have all been happy.  
 

soumare was clearly a succession planning signing.. again just hasn’t been the player expected.  I don’t necessarily think the clubs logic or profiles were wrong... just the wrong players were signed  (combined with a crazy injury list that increased their importance)

 

 

I think last summers signings and whether they are a success or not are similar to 2017 when we signed Iheanacho, Iborra, Maguire and Silva. 

 

Things went against us then and also over time Iheanacho has grown to be a hugely valuable player to us and Maguire we made ridiculous money on. But Silva was a complete disaster and seemed like a Vestergaard panic even though we wanted him the year before as well. 

 

 

[Lambert09]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I think last summers signings and whether they are a success or not are similar to 2017 when we signed Iheanacho, Iborra, Maguire and Silva. 

 

Things went against us then and also over time Iheanacho has grown to be a hugely valuable player to us and Maguire we made ridiculous money on. But Silva was a complete disaster and seemed like a Vestergaard panic even though we wanted him the year before as well. 

 

 

Honestly it all points towards congerton for me. It’s the same type of disaster deals that Sunderland made. 
 

The sooner he leaves for Atalanta the better. If that wasn’t all a ploy for a bigger contract. 
 

I would give him credit for daka but who in the whole of football didn’t know he was going to be a star

 

Edited 24 January 2022 by Lambert09

[turlo]

20 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm not saying we are the only ones to dictate this and you might be right that circumstances are now going against our ability to carry on manipulating the market and our reputation but I've seen this with successful clubs who start to alter what got them there in the first place and what works for them in the belief that that will help keep them there and it doesn't. 

 

The simple economics are, in order to try and stay on the coat tails of the elite that we have to improve our XI and squad year on year, not to mention reward our influential players with new contracts to a) keep them here and motivated and b) to protect their value. The difficulties in doing that is not only is our wage structure maximised to the full but then the budget for transfers each summer without moving players on is also heavily challenged. 

 

The delicate balance is, to enable our wage structure to have room for manoeuvre each year we have to be able to sell replaceable high value assets on bigger wages as they were successful and well renumerated players and use the short term cash flows from the sale to strengthen the squad overall. That conveyor built keeps on going like it did in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020. 

This is a problem with our more recent shift in our recruitment, as a lot of the squad players we've brought in to improve squad depth in the last few years are on relatively high wages as well. The likes of Perez, Praet, Vestergaard, Bertrand, Castagne & Soumare are all reported to be earning in the 70-80k a week range, so no surprises we've maxed out our wage budget (we had the highest wage % of our revenue last time I checked) 

Out of those Soumare is the only one who fits our model of bringing in young talent who can improve and potentially be moved on for a nice profit (he had a lot of suitors across Europe to be fair), although we've obviously had to offer him a higher wage to convince him to sign, when the likes of Liverpool & Man City were linked with him. 

[tickler28]

What has changed at our club?

 

A lot of supporters expect more these days than they did pre 2015/16.

 

I get it but I also think people need to remember the 1 fact that they keep conveniently forgetting......

 

....we have an injury crisis and it levels the playing field!!!!!! FFS

 

[turlo]

35 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

Honestly it all points towards congerton for me. It’s the same type of disaster deals that Sunderland made. 
 

The sooner he leaves for Atalanta the better. If that wasn’t all a ploy for a bigger contract. 
 

I would give him credit for daka but who in the whole of football didn’t know he was going to be a star

 

Rudders deserves a lot of credit for Daka for getting in there under the radar and getting the deal done so quickly when the likes of liverpool and a few of the German clubs were heavily linked to him. Soumare is another one who's been heavily linked to clubs around Europe (didn't they turn down 30m + for him the previous summer)? Problem with Soumare is Rodgers doesn't know what to do with him and has played in about 6 different midfield roles in an unsettled team. 

[MonkeyTennis?]

The thing is, for the last couple of years when we have been really competing for top 6, or even top 4, I have come away from a surprising number of games thinking 'we did bloody well to win that, because we weren't that great.'

 

We're not Man City - in that we don't play consistently pretty, skilled football. Sometimes we do, and its glorious, but on more than a few occasions we have been winning ugly, sh-thousing, taking our chances and riding our luck. The mix of skill, good fortune, and our ability to grind out an unlikely win from games is part of our DNA now. And for the last two years, we were able to do that because we had a really reliable defence, which didn't let in silly goals very often (and a great ball stopper in Kasper). Now that defence is on the ropes, it shouldn't be that suprising that we are struggling more. 

 

I'm not sure if the stats would back me up on this, but that's how it feels. 

[jim5000]

2 hours ago, Vindaloo FOX said:

What's changing is the spine / leaders of our squad are coming to their last days.

 

Kasper 

Evans 

Youri 

Vardy 

 

We need a major rebuild, sadly though we don't have the money and maybe even the right scouting team to do it in one transfer window.

 

This will take a few seasons and we need to hope the right decisions are made or we could find ourselves in real trouble.

 

Rocky roads ahead but hopefully we will produce a special squad again in a few seasons that will bring more silverware to this club.

 

Definitely feels like the end of a cycle with the star players all expected to leave fairly soon

 

Kasper - mentioned he doesn’t want to retire at Leicester, is mid thirties

Evans - realistically could retire in the summer due to injuries

Youri - likely to leave in the summer so the club don’t lose him from free next january

Vardy - one more season max, even then he’ll be 36 this time next year. Could retire in the summer

 

Albrighton aside, that’s the last of the title winners and the core of the team that won the FA Cup. There are some new youth players like KDH coming through but will they reach the same hights? Will the scouting team find any more hidden gems like Mahrez, Kante, or Vardy for a million quid?

 

 

[Fox92]

2 hours ago, Vestan Pance said:

Strangely enough this season has seen our highest net spend, since returning to the PL. I believe the average net spend for us is around £20m (incredible compared the Villa, Everton etc), so we could well see sales before we buy.

 

 

I would imagine so. When Rodgers talks about "sustainability" I believe this is what he means.

[gazzaa2]

8 hours ago, Winsum said:

When Rodgers was appointed the story was that the aim was to disrupt the top six.

Three years on and a new training ground and the prospect of a stadium expansion and the

story changes

We are mid table and the club is over achieving says Rodgers.

Are there off the field issues ?

 

He came out with similar towards the end of his time at Liverpool. Basically said if you sack me (they were in mid table and struggling) nobody else would do better. 

 

When things start going wrong he throws everyone under the bus.

Edited 24 January 2022 by gazzaa2

[TeamRocket]

Alot of the back room staff has changed and I personally think that has effected the players in some way or from. We lost our identity of what the club mean "foxes never quit". We was a team that never gave up and fought till the end but now we're lucky to get a draw in games. I don't care if we lose game or draw a few, it's just the manor of the way we lose/draw game em that bugs me the most 

[BKLFox]

22 minutes ago, gazzaa2 said:

He came out with similar towards the end of his time at Liverpool. Basically said if you sack me (they were in mid table and struggling) nobody else would do better.

no context in the post you reply to, he's talking about this seasons performance not where we are as a "club"

“It’s been a real challenge for us, that’s the reality,” Rodgers said. “It’s been challenge after challenge for us, with injuries and everything else

“For the first couple of seasons, you'll have seen dynamism in the team, but when you have the numbers out and the quality out that we have, it brings a different dimension to the team.

“We’re sat in the table where we deserve to be. We’re mid-table. We’ve had some really good wins, some disappointing results, but we’ll keep fighting, keep working and keep looking to progress.”

Is he wrong basing it on this season so far, what's wrong with being honest in football, it happens every week in rugby coaches say we gave it our best but wasn't to be or best team won on the day etc etc doesnt mean they are having a go at the players or owners or fans or whatever, why are football fans so precious about a little honesty, especially when if we sat & thought do we deserve to be higher or lower than we are 99% will say no we've not pulled up any trees but there are worse teams in the league & say on current form we are mid-table (edit) for this season!

If we had every player available to us does he think (do we think) that we would be mid-table, i very much doubt it.

Edited 24 January 2022 by BKLFox

[smudgerfox]

All local media outlets Merc (what’s left of it), RL and Atlantic doing their Whither LCFC pieces….all concluding to varying degrees that we’re  an injury stricken club who can’t compete financially with the top six - conveniently, after much beard-stroking, landing in the same place as BR…

 

I suppose it was our injuries and inferiority complex that led to us conceding two goals in 90 seconds and literally throwing away three points, injuries and an inferiority complex that threw away the tactical initiative v Brighton and surrendering two points, that led to us giving up a 2-0 lead v Napoli, and  v Palace, a 3-1 lead v Liverpool, that led to us being 4-0 yes 4-0 down in the first 20 mins (anyone at LCFC notice the Southampton result?) v Man City. Perhaps it explains our knack for conceding from set pieces, going behind in the first ten minutes, conceding late. 
 

These shortcomings apparently have nothing to do with the standard of defence coaching at the club, with tactical set up, with squad mentality. They would all (apparently) have never raised their ugly heads if we’d had Jonny Evans and Wesley Fofana fit or if we had the financial muscle of Man City.

[ozleicester]

Everything

[foxinsocks]

18 hours ago, jim5000 said:

 

 

Albrighton aside, that’s the last of the title winners ...?

 

 

amarty

Edited 25 January 2022 by foxinsocks

[An Sionnach]

The fear factor that Vardy gave us has faded , exceptional strikers like him always dictate opposition tactics. We still score goals but defences generally feel more confident they can handle us now. Our constantly changing defence is a major factor , the same four played match after match when we won the title. The inconsistent form of Ndidi, Tielemans and until recently Maddison has been a real problem. Most of this by the way is not really Rodgers's immediate fault.

[sacreblueits442]

20 hours ago, BKLFox said:

If we had every player available to us does he think (do we think) that we would be mid-table, i very much doubt it.

....the injuries were not a factor in the slump that cost us the Champions League place the first time and the second!!!

  You cannot discount that the disruption has not hindered our progress this season but he is being a tad disingenuous that it is the reason why we are where we are.

  Rugby managers always praise their opposition managers when they have lost, it is part of the games etiquette. 

Edited 25 January 2022 by sacreblueits442