US Gun Violence

[marbles]

Staring this because we end up with discussions of gun laws every time there is a shooting.

 

What would your solution be to the gun problem in the US?

I know, I know.  I would take them all away.  No easy answer -explain what you would do, and how you would achieve it.

Lets have  adiscussion.

[leicsmac]

Obviously acting by "taking them all away" is both incredibly impractical and won't solve the issue by itself anyway - not given the cultural issues and sheer size of the country that often means getting help from authorities can take time one doesn't have (when those authorities have the time and inclination to help anyway).

 

However, legislation regarding types of weapons and modifying could well help. Of course, folks might argue those regs are in place already - well, if they are, they're clearly not working and there's a problem either with the regs or enforcement there.

 

However, for me the bigger issue is cultural and lack of access to mental health services. And that is a much easier problem to solve, the powers that be (mostly Repub, sorry OP) don't want to solve it because they're so in hock to the status quo - both from the gun lobby and various medical companies.

[Phenom]

There needs to be very strict federal gun control. It should not be easy (but defitinely possible) for people to get a gun. Have strict safe storage requirements too.

[ClaphamFox]

Any ‘solution’ that does not involve removing guns from circulation will fail. It is obvious what needs to be done, but it won’t be done and mass killings like yesterday’s horror show will just continue.

[Sly]

The fact it doesn’t make me shocked anymore, is damming in itself to this situation.
 

I read somewhere that the NRA pour in lots of money into the economy and fund the one of the parties (Trumps), so a large proportion of the country is pro guns. 
 

Unfortunately it still doesn’t make that right. 
 

The fact that Texas has more guns than people tells you the story alone. I remember Dunblane and it was so shocking and close to home, that we got a response via the guns amnesty and we’ve not seen anything in the UK since on that scale. 
 

The fact people feel the need to have a gun, to defend one’s self against other people with guns is crazy. 
 

Whilst they’re so readily available, people have the options to do crazy stuff on a wimm like undertake mass shootings. I’ve an individual in this country wanted to do the same, they’d severely struggle to get hold of a bigger powered rifle, so they’d most likely resort to a knife. Brutally speaking, that’s still not right but they aren’t going to kill the same number of people in such a short time period.

 

They do need to remove the guns over, albeit over a time period. Stop sales

immediately, then phase ownership out over over a time period, whereby it then becomes illegal to own a weapon. I appreciate that that comes at a massive cost, however it might take the international community and businesses to pull themselves from American shores and cease trade to do that. 

 

Texas itself is like a third world country at times, with antiquated laws. 

[Sly]

3 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Any ‘solution’ that does not involve removing guns from circulation will fail. It is obvious what needs to be done, but it won’t be done and mass killings like yesterday’s horror show will just continue.

You’re correct, unfortunately.

[Jon the Hat]

Ban the weapons industry and the NRA from:

Lobbying

Any and all political donations

Advertising weapons or ammo outside of specialist magazines

 

Phased removal of guns from community.  Start with removing them at every opportunity from those who prove they can't be safe;

Got a criminal record?  No guns.

Arrested for a violent offence?  No guns.

Mental health issue?  No guns.

Under 21?  No guns.

It got stolen?  No guns.

Lost your gun? No guns.

Waved a gun around in an argument?  No guns.

Let you kids handle your gun?  No guns.

Shot someone? NO GUNS

 

Then make it a crime to not secure your gun:  

Keeping your gun at home?  Must be locked in a gun safe.

In the car?  Locked in the boot or glove compartment

 

Restrict purchases:

Background checks for every gun purchase against the above criteria

Ban private gun sales

Ban Gun shows 

Ban Supermarket gun sales

 

Reduce the types and number of guns

Semi Automatic rifles?  NO

Bump stocks? NO

Carrying more than one gun? NO

 

Mass Gun Buy back

Throw money at it.

 

[Bert]

Those poor babies 😞 

 

The killer was 18 years old. I just don’t get what goes through peoples minds. 

[Jon the Hat]

And they can **** off with their thoughts and prayers.

[marbles]

9 minutes ago, Bert said:

Those poor babies 😞 

 

The killer was 18 years old. I just don’t get what goes through peoples minds. 

I understand being so angry that you want to kill someone - what I don't understand is wanting to hurt children, or hurt anyone you do not know.  It just makes no sense.

[marbles]

A couple things

 

The NRA is a huge contributor to several politicians.  While I agree that shouldn't be allowed - I don't believe you can exclude just one group from political contribution.

If they did, they would find ways around it.  Its too profitable to them not to.

What I think would help, is restricting the total amount of contributions across the board. 

 

 @Jon the Hat 

Phased removal of guns from community.  Start with removing them at every opportunity from those who prove they can't be safe;

Got a criminal record?  No guns. - believe its already illegal

Arrested for a violent offence?  No guns.- believe its already illegal

Mental health issue?  No guns.- believe its already illegal

Under 21?  No guns. - I agree

It got stolen?  No guns. - punish the victim? Really? 

Lost your gun? No guns.- I agree

Waved a gun around in an argument?  No guns. - I agree

Let you kids handle your gun?  No guns. - How will they learn to use it?  Not being able to properly use a gun is the biggest reason kids accidentally shoot others

Shot someone? NO GUNS - again, punish the victim? 

 

 

 

The issue is multi-fold

Legal guns - there should be huge restrictions on what can be sold.  No auto.  No semi-auto.  No high volume cartridge's.

Illegal guns - they are as easy to get as the legal ones.  What to do about that?  If this country cant stop drugs from coming in, how is it expected to stop weapons?

Cultural (as @leicsmac says) - it is very much so. Our country is built on it.  We rose up against the evil British and shot our way to independence.  The old west is glamourized. The majority of our action heroes (non-super that is) carry guns.  How do you undo that?     

 

@Sly

Eh, Texas is Texas.  People don't move away, while others move here.  Cant be all bad - although it is hot as hell in the summer. 

As for guns - we are actually not even in the top 10 states in terms gun ownership percentage.  Although we do own the most number of registered guns overall. 

 

 

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

7 minutes ago, marbles said:

A couple things

 

The NRA is a huge contributor to several politicians.  While I agree that shouldn't be allowed - I don't believe you can exclude just one group from political contribution.

If they did, they would find ways around it.  Its too profitable to them not to.

What I think would help, is restricting the total amount of contributions across the board. 

 

 @Jon the Hat 

Phased removal of guns from community.  Start with removing them at every opportunity from those who prove they can't be safe;

Got a criminal record?  No guns. - believe its already illegal

Arrested for a violent offence?  No guns.- believe its already illegal

Mental health issue?  No guns.- believe its already illegal

Under 21?  No guns. - I agree

It got stolen?  No guns. - punish the victim? Really? 

Lost your gun? No guns.- I agree

Waved a gun around in an argument?  No guns. - I agree

Let you kids handle your gun?  No guns. - How will they learn to use it?  Not being able to properly use a gun is the biggest reason kids accidentally shoot others

Shot someone? NO GUNS - again, punish the victim? 

 

Yes ideally you would ban all political contributions and just provide central funding from the taxpayer.

 

If your gun got stolen you weren't looking after it properly.  Gun safes are really hard to get into.  If you can show the police a broken into gun safe then fine, you can replace your guns.

 

No - getting hold of a gun in the biggest reason kids accidentally shoot others.  Kids and guns don't mix.  They want to handle a gun sign them up for the army.

[marbles]

10 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yes ideally you would ban all political contributions and just provide central funding from the taxpayer.

 

If your gun got stolen you weren't looking after it properly.  Gun safes are really hard to get into.  If you can show the police a broken into gun safe then fine, you can replace your guns.

 

No - getting hold of a gun in the biggest reason kids accidentally shoot others.  Kids and guns don't mix.  They want to handle a gun sign them up for the army.

Gun safes are only necessary if you have children or a collection

What good is it for protections.  "Excuse me Mr burglar/rapist/kidnapper, give me a second to unlock my gun safe.  I have some drinks in the fridge if you're thirsty"

 

 

Edited 25 May 2022 by marbles

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, marbles said:

Gun safes are only necessary if you have children or a collection

What good is it for protections.  "Excuse me Mr burglar/rapist/kidnapper, give me a second to unlock my gun safe.  I have some drinks in the fridge if you're thirsty"

Lock your doors like everyone else in the world?   Guns for home protection is utter nonsense.  

[marbles]

6 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Lock your doors like everyone else in the world?   Guns for home protection is utter nonsense.  

 

Not sure where you live, but home invasions and robberies are a thing in this part of the world.

 

https://brandongaille.com/24-surprising-home-invasion-robbery-statistics/

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/robbery

 

 

Edited 25 May 2022 by marbles

[Captain...]

There needs to be a wholesale culture change, but that will take a long long time, especially when there seems to be no appetite for it. The fact that some genuine responses to high school shooting is to arm the teachers says it all. Whatever people say it is clear that America's love affair with guns is not about self defence. Ultimately they need to amend the constitution, as unlikely as that is, that one act would create a lot of controversy but instigate a culture change. Changing it to something like "the right to protect one's self, one's family and one's property." Essentially covering the purpose of the second amendment but without explicitly referring to guns.

[Dahnsouff]

Make guns only available from a centralised retailer, controlled by the Government.

[Jon the Hat]

6 minutes ago, Captain... said:

There needs to be a wholesale culture change, but that will take a long long time, especially when there seems to be no appetite for it. The fact that some genuine responses to high school shooting is to arm the teachers says it all. Whatever people say it is clear that America's love affair with guns is not about self defence. Ultimately they need to amend the constitution, as unlikely as that is, that one act would create a lot of controversy but instigate a culture change. Changing it to something like "the right to protect one's self, one's family and one's property." Essentially covering the purpose of the second amendment but without explicitly referring to guns.

The armed police where there and engaged him, yet the gunman managed to get into the school and shoot multiple kids in multiple classrooms.  Yet more proof that more guns is not the answer.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Data!

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

 

54% of US gun deaths were suicides in 2020, with 43% murders and the remaining 3% accidents/law enforcement etc.

 

I'm sure protecting the right of God fearing citizens to redecorate the interior of their garages with their own brains as well as efficiently eliminating their fellow Americans whenever needed was just what the Founding Fathers had in mind

 

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

17 minutes ago, marbles said:

 

Not sure where you live, but home invasions and robberies are a thing in this part of the world.

 

https://brandongaille.com/24-surprising-home-invasion-robbery-statistics/

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/robbery

 

 

Yeah sure, but nutters are murdering kids in schools.  And home invasions and robberies are a thing everywhere, only everywhere else worked out that having guns in the house makes it worse not better.

[marbles]

12 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yeah sure, but nutters are murdering kids in schools.  And home invasions and robberies are a thing everywhere, only everywhere else worked out that having guns in the house makes it worse not better.

Believe it or not, at the end of the day I agree with you.  The guns need to go.

I am simply providing some reasoning for the purchases.  Right or wrong, fear is a big driver.

Edited 25 May 2022 by marbles

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, marbles said:

Believe it or not, at the end of the day I agree with you.  The guns need to go.

I am simply providing some reasoning for the purchases.

Yeah I do understand that.  It takes a lot to move from that mindset for your average gun owner, and having fired a variety of guns I can see the appeal of owning one, although I cannot imagine pointing one at a burglar I probably would if I had one and were threatened.

[Daggers]

Cue: Jim Jeffries video

[Benguin]

Gun rights to an American are just another human right. There needs to be a shift in that before anything is done. 
 

Whilst I think all guns should be fully illegal I’d explore limiting the types of gun available, I.e you can have sports style weapons and you can have a handgun but nothing militaryesque. I’d also look at minimum age. I.e you can have a basic weapon at 21 and then after let’s say ten years of a clean record you can move up to other things. 

[Vlad the Fox]

Reducing guns can be done, plenty of good solutions above. However until those in power have a desire to do so this will keep happening. It will have to be forced on the people and resist the nra (with legislation) and will cost some their political career, would they consider that worth it to save thousands of lives?