US Gun Violence

[marbles]

Oh, and to clarify.

I do not on an assault rifle.  I own a handgun.

I do not carry it with me, although am licensed to do so.

 

[marbles]

6 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Why don't you then? 

The same reason most Americans don’t.  We do not feel safe.

When politicians pass laws that go easy on career and dangerous criminals.  We don’t feel safe.

When the movement to defund/degun the police continues to rear its ugly head, we don’t feel safe.

It goes back to one of the things I said earlier.  People need to feel safe, and feel like the government  wants to protect them.  If/when that happens, people WILL surrender their weapons - not all, but a good number.

Edited 4 June 2022 by marbles

[FoxesDeb]

5 minutes ago, marbles said:

The same reason most Americans don’t.  We do not feel safe.

When politicians pass laws that go easy on career and dangerous criminals.  We don’t feel safe.

When the movement to defund/degun the police continues to rear its ugly head, we don’t feel safe.

It goes back to one of the things I said earlier.  People need to feel safe, and feel like the government  wants to protect them.  If/when that happens, people WILL surrender their weapons - not all, but a good number.

But what is it that makes you feel unsafe? Why does owning a lethal weapon make you feel safer? 

 

 

[marbles]

17 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

But what is it that makes you feel unsafe? Why does owning a lethal weapon make you feel safer? 

 

 

Lawmakers feeling the need to protect criminals, instead of citizens - see California for example.

Civil unrest.  Neither political party shows the slightest desire to work on anything together, and it’s trickled to normal people.  Look at the hatred people exhibit now if they come across an opposing viewpoint.  There seems to no longer be an attempt to understand.  Only attack - worst of all, it’s encouraged by our politicians.

 

Finally, police backlash.  It’s at the point now where people are flat out lying in in order to continue painting police in a bad light (not saying there aren’t bad cops.  Not saying that at all). There is an ongoing agenda to remove/defund law enforcement. Who will then protect average citizens?  It’s no coincidence that when the whole “Defund the Police” initiative kicked off, gun sales went through the roof.  
I know it can be hard to understand for someone living in another country.  Ask yourself this.  In 2021, 61% of Republicans lived in a house with a gun - makes sense considering what they believe.  31% of Democrats live in a house with a gun - why? 
I’ll tell you why.  They do not feel safe.

 

 

Edited 4 June 2022 by marbles

[BKLFox]

17 minutes ago, marbles said:

The same reason most Americans don’t.  We do not feel safe.

When politicians pass laws that go easy on career and dangerous criminals.  We don’t feel safe.

When the movement to defund/degun the police continues to rear its ugly head, we don’t feel safe.

It goes back to one of the things I said earlier.  People need to feel safe, and feel like the government  wants to protect them.  If/when that happens, people WILL surrender their weapons - not all, but a good number.

Hi marbs please don’t feel threatened by our posts I’m sure, like me, most posters are ignorant, intrigued and dumbfounded by the US gun culture.
You live there and probably stuck between a rock and hard place in what you believe is right for you and your family in a subject myself and the rest on here can’t fully appreciate whilst living in leafy suburbia in the Uk

I thank you for opening up and replying to our posts nothing on here is personal to you it’s the overall situation we find frustrating, Please continue to post in the understanding of this 👍 

[Blarmy]

6 minutes ago, marbles said:

Lawmakers feeling the need to protect criminals, instead of citizens - see California for example.

Civil unrest.  Neither political party shows the slightest desire to work on anything together, and it’s trickled to normal people.  Look at the hatred people exhibit now if they come across an opposing viewpoint.  There seems to no longer be an attempt to understand.  Only attack - worst of all, it’s encouraged by our politicians.

 

Finally, police backlash.  It’s at the point now where people are flat out lying in in order to continue painting police in a bad light (not saying there aren’t bad cops.  Not saying that at all). There is an ongoing agenda to remove/defund law enforcement. Who will then protect average citizens?  It’s no coincidence that when the whole “Defund the Police” initiative kicked off, gun sales went through the roof.  
I know it can be hard to understand for someone living in another country.  Ask yourself this.  In 2021, 61% of Republicans lived in a house with a gun - makes sense considering what they believe.  31% of Democrats live in a house with a gun - why? 
I’ll tell you why.  They do not feel safe.

 

 

But… the USA/gun thing isn’t new. What you are talking about is.

 

I just think Americans like guns - and there’s nothing wrong with that if you could, as a nation, handle the “freedom” of your gun laws.

 

But you clearly can’t. 

[marbles]

Just now, BKLFox said:

Hi marbs please don’t feel threatened by our posts I’m sure, like me, most posters are ignorant, intrigued and dumbfounded by the US gun culture.
You live there and probably stuck between a rock and hard place in what you believe is right for you and your family in a subject myself and the rest on here can’t fully appreciate whilst living in leafy suburbia in the Uk

I thank you for opening up and replying to our posts nothing on here is personal to you it’s the overall situation we find frustrating, Please continue to post in the understanding of this 👍 

I don’t feel that way at all.

I get it.  It makes no sense why a country would seem so destructive.  

 

We have common ground - the desire to get rid of firearms, and ultimately make this a safer world.

I have a grand daughter, and the last thing I want is for her to live in a country where she can’t even walk down the street.  Her mom already doesn’t feel safe sending her to school - which is understandable to me.

[marbles]

Just now, Blarmy said:

But… the USA/gun thing isn’t new. What you are talking about is.

 

I just think Americans like guns - and there’s nothing wrong with that if you could, as a nation, handle the “freedom” of your gun laws.

 

But you clearly can’t. 

Not sure what you’re talking about - sorry.

Ive said in previous posts that it’s part of the culture.  Meaning, it’s accepted and understood but not necessarily liked.

 

 

[fuchsntf]

Americans have a totally different ideology towards guns..

So Any Limey character approach aint going to work...

 

But..we have to presume that there will be Americans who would like to start something off...

My approach would be...In every state there are Counties...

So each County should put out feelers how that County's Electorate feel....Then how The Single state feels

 

2 simple approaches..

# Total Ban County-areas

# Ban on certain Guns-types/models...

Automatics, calibers, Limits on Magazine feeds/capacity 5,10 found feeds, etc...(there must be a start even small %ages ), county-Areas

 

There are at least 11-15 gun law regulations,everyone of those can be contended individually and different weights in each State.

They are so Embedded in their Amendment & Stipulated Rights into their Constifution...

A President, a Party or a Movement alone, just are Not strong/powerful enough to Swing it alone...

I mean ffs the UK cant even Force Johnson to resign...

 

 

It has to be a slowly, slowly, easy-easy approach...

 

If it only starts with 10-20%...its a start..

 

 

 

Edited 4 June 2022 by fuchsntf

[fuchsntf]

Oh something else & must be calculated....

There are 340 million+ People in the USA all with various generational background...

 

360 Million people...How many so called Major countries across Europe/Scandinavia does that amount cover...?

 

France/UK /Spain/ Germany/Italy... OR

Sweden/Eire/Belguim/Holland/Norway/Portugal/Poland/Austria/ Bulgaria/ Switzerland/Finland/Croatia/Hungary...Even add Australia & Canada

In fact a Eurovision total collective, Plus Asians,Persians ,Africans...

 

Doesnt matter How you cut it, thats a lot of Cultural 6th-12th variant-generations that fit into USA, that brought,ran away from, pionieered themselves into this

Land of opportunity to create this/their Constitution...& Then biggest pisshead, Drinking-bout immigrants,still put forward a prohibition period...

USA peoples are a mirrored Melting Pot of ourselves...of New/old/modern/ traditional ways..Bringing with them their separate Religous-beliefs,or Wishing to create

their own ideas of creation...I

 

We Never Listen to our elders or Brothers...Why The fk should they..!!

 

 

 

 

 

[David Hankey]

15 hours ago, marbles said:

You’ve obviously read nothing I’ve written about guns over the past, I don’t know….,year.  Including this very thread where you decided to participate.  Especially the parts where Ive continually written that I WANT TO SEE GUNS BANNED!

 

To recap.  You’ve read nothing I’ve posted, and come to uneducated opinions about what I want.

You have also made no attempt at answering the simple question I’ve asked.     

You have an opinion.  One that was most likely given to you - that you read somewhere, hence why you explain, defend or answer questions. 

It’s very obvious you have no desire to have an actual conversation, so I am done with you.

 

Good, thank God for that!!

[leicsmac]

Now an incident in Philadelphia.

[FoxesDeb]

19 hours ago, marbles said:

Lawmakers feeling the need to protect criminals, instead of citizens - see California for example.

Civil unrest.  Neither political party shows the slightest desire to work on anything together, and it’s trickled to normal people.  Look at the hatred people exhibit now if they come across an opposing viewpoint.  There seems to no longer be an attempt to understand.  Only attack - worst of all, it’s encouraged by our politicians.

 

Finally, police backlash.  It’s at the point now where people are flat out lying in in order to continue painting police in a bad light (not saying there aren’t bad cops.  Not saying that at all). There is an ongoing agenda to remove/defund law enforcement. Who will then protect average citizens?  It’s no coincidence that when the whole “Defund the Police” initiative kicked off, gun sales went through the roof.  
I know it can be hard to understand for someone living in another country.  Ask yourself this.  In 2021, 61% of Republicans lived in a house with a gun - makes sense considering what they believe.  31% of Democrats live in a house with a gun - why? 
I’ll tell you why.  They do not feel safe.

 

 

It most certainly is difficult to understand, especially given that I live somewhere I don't need to lock my doors, but I'm grateful that you take the time to respond, I'm learning all the time! 

 

I thought the California thing was a good thing? More about rehabilitation rather than prison, or reduced sentences, which is something I fully agree with, but I know we differ on this, we've touched on it before. But if you have the time I'd love you to explain it to me further. 

 

With regards to your other two points, again they are pretty alien to me, is civil unrest really a thing? And you need guns? Are all the videos I've seen of the police in the US mistreating and abusing citizens fake? We have whole series over here devoted to how heavy handed and abusive the US police are, is that not real? 

 

Genuine questions btw, the US fascinates me in how westernised it claims to be, yet is so far removed in it's way of thinking from most of Europe. 

 

As an aside, I think you've said that your granddaughter is not able to go to school, would they not consider moving to another country where they would feel safe? It seems incredibly sad to me to live in such fear, and it's clear that I can't comprehend it, but I do know that I couldn't live like that. 

[marbles]

@FoxesDeb

Hopefully I answer your questions to your satisfaction.

 

California has an image of being soft on crime.  Earlier this year, most US news outlets ran stories about a section of railroad tracks where trains were being robbed almost non-stop.

The railroad police (they have those here lol) would actually make arrests.  The criminals would be processed, ticketed and released in a few hours.  Sometimes the same person was caught more than once in the same day. 

I read it got so bad, that Amazon stopped deliveries and Union Pacific RR threatened to stop running through California if nothing was done.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/14/economy/la-freight-railroad-theft/index.html

Some of the crime is attributed to the extremely high homeless population (California has 1/5 all US homeless) - something I also blame the US government for.  But that's a discussion for another day.  

Others contribute it to having "Sanctuary Cities" - where immigrants deported for violent crimes are free to live (simplified, but still the basic explanation)

California (and a few other states) deems theft of under $950 to be a misdemeanor.  Therefore police do not investigate complaints.  There are a lot of youtube videos showing people brazenly filling shopping carts and walking out of stores.  Again, not just California, but it is the state I singled out.

Finally - California enacted a $0 bail law at the beginning of COVID.  This stayed in effect for 2021, and part of 2022.  Which means people arrested for some violent crimes (somehow child abuse was allowed $0 bail) were back out on the streets the same day.

All this, and the gang capital of the World (let that sink in for a second) - Los Angeles

Look.  I get it.  They are trying something different than just locking everyone away.  But is what they are doing detrimental to the general public?  Do the general public agree with these policies, and feel safe?  I dont know - but as of 2021, just over 28% of California legally own guns.

In 2021, over 180,000 people moved out of California.  Is it all because of crime? No. They have other issues like a very high cost of living.  High taxes.  Rats.  The homeless.  Yearly wildfires.  They all contribute.

 

Police

Its like any job.  There are great ones, and there are horrible one.  The horrible ones make mistakes that lead to loss of life.  I would be foolish (and stupid) to say otherwise.

However, if you watch social media you would be under the impression that almost ever police interaction results in brutality or a shooting.  Simply not true.

Yearly, there are over 10 million police interactions.  From calls to traffic stops.  In 2021 there were a total of 1055 people shot by police.  This includes everything from mass shooters being killed, gunfights between criminals and police, and unarmed people being shot.  

The reason I mentioned lies, was because of the latest case in which a woman posted all over social media (and news outlets) about police shooting an unarmed pregnant woman 5 times and killing her.   Well, still photos and video have been released.  Woman not dead or pregnant.   Shooting at the police while trying to get away.  She was being stopped because her and her boyfriend just used guns to carjack someone.

This is not the first story like this, and it wont be the last.

If one unarmed person is shot by police - its one too many.  Things do need to change.  However, they don't need to be blown out of proportion.  All that does is give the apologists something to point at and say "see, all lies!" - then there is no reform.

I didn't cover cases of brutality, because there is just no way of knowing how many actual cases there are.

 

Civil unrest.

This is just my opinion of course.

This is what most working/lower class Americans see right now - right or wrong. 

Billions being sent to Ukraine.  Another 30+ Billion being sent to countries like Ethiopia, Jordan, Yemen, Nigeria, etc. 

Yet, our homeless population climbs yearly.  The number of children in the US who don't get enough to eat (16 million is a number being thrown around)

Schools worrying about everything but educating our children. 

Gas prices going up.  People are worried that it may become too expensive to go to work.  Then what? 

Cost of living going up. 

Housing cost is ridiculously out of sync.  Around here, houses are going for 3 and 4 times normal price.  Apartments are double - and that's if you can even find a house or apartment.

At the same time, technology threatening to take jobs away.  

Not too mention our own politicians sowing the seeds of hatred and civil war.  

There will be a breaking point.  Most likely not in the next 10-15 years, but I believe it will happen if things don't change..

 

My daughter does not like living in Texas.  She is extremely liberal and feminist (not sure how this happened  ) - so she does not like it here and wants to move.

Her boyfriend/fiancé is Vietnamese, so they could move there. 

However, my daughter worries because of the perception of Americans outside the US.  She feels we are not liked (and I can certainly understand that)

Right now they home school my granddaughter - and she is further along than if she was in school.  But, she is not learning other important things, like learning to get along with others.   

 

I tried my best to hit on a few different things without making this post drag on forever.

Let me know if you want more info on anything.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 June 2022 by marbles

[NYC Fox Fan]

14 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Now an incident in Philadelphia.

4 blocks from where I am moving to…

[FoxesDeb]

7 hours ago, marbles said:

@FoxesDeb

Hopefully I answer your questions to your satisfaction.

 

California has an image of being soft on crime.  Earlier this year, most US news outlets ran stories about a section of railroad tracks where trains were being robbed almost non-stop.

The railroad police (they have those here lol) would actually make arrests.  The criminals would be processed, ticketed and released in a few hours.  Sometimes the same person was caught more than once in the same day. 

I read it got so bad, that Amazon stopped deliveries and Union Pacific RR threatened to stop running through California if nothing was done.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/14/economy/la-freight-railroad-theft/index.html

Some of the crime is attributed to the extremely high homeless population (California has 1/5 all US homeless) - something I also blame the US government for.  But that's a discussion for another day.  

Others contribute it to having "Sanctuary Cities" - where immigrants deported for violent crimes are free to live (simplified, but still the basic explanation)

California (and a few other states) deems theft of under $950 to be a misdemeanor.  Therefore police do not investigate complaints.  There are a lot of youtube videos showing people brazenly filling shopping carts and walking out of stores.  Again, not just California, but it is the state I singled out.

Finally - California enacted a $0 bail law at the beginning of COVID.  This stayed in effect for 2021, and part of 2022.  Which means people arrested for some violent crimes (somehow child abuse was allowed $0 bail) were back out on the streets the same day.

All this, and the gang capital of the World (let that sink in for a second) - Los Angeles

Look.  I get it.  They are trying something different than just locking everyone away.  But is what they are doing detrimental to the general public?  Do the general public agree with these policies, and feel safe?  I dont know - but as of 2021, just over 28% of California legally own guns.

In 2021, over 180,000 people moved out of California.  Is it all because of crime? No. They have other issues like a very high cost of living.  High taxes.  Rats.  The homeless.  Yearly wildfires.  They all contribute.

 

Police

Its like any job.  There are great ones, and there are horrible one.  The horrible ones make mistakes that lead to loss of life.  I would be foolish (and stupid) to say otherwise.

However, if you watch social media you would be under the impression that almost ever police interaction results in brutality or a shooting.  Simply not true.

Yearly, there are over 10 million police interactions.  From calls to traffic stops.  In 2021 there were a total of 1055 people shot by police.  This includes everything from mass shooters being killed, gunfights between criminals and police, and unarmed people being shot.  

The reason I mentioned lies, was because of the latest case in which a woman posted all over social media (and news outlets) about police shooting an unarmed pregnant woman 5 times and killing her.   Well, still photos and video have been released.  Woman not dead or pregnant.   Shooting at the police while trying to get away.  She was being stopped because her and her boyfriend just used guns to carjack someone.

This is not the first story like this, and it wont be the last.

If one unarmed person is shot by police - its one too many.  Things do need to change.  However, they don't need to be blown out of proportion.  All that does is give the apologists something to point at and say "see, all lies!" - then there is no reform.

I didn't cover cases of brutality, because there is just no way of knowing how many actual cases there are.

 

Civil unrest.

This is just my opinion of course.

This is what most working/lower class Americans see right now - right or wrong. 

Billions being sent to Ukraine.  Another 30+ Billion being sent to countries like Ethiopia, Jordan, Yemen, Nigeria, etc. 

Yet, our homeless population climbs yearly.  The number of children in the US who don't get enough to eat (16 million is a number being thrown around)

Schools worrying about everything but educating our children. 

Gas prices going up.  People are worried that it may become too expensive to go to work.  Then what? 

Cost of living going up. 

Housing cost is ridiculously out of sync.  Around here, houses are going for 3 and 4 times normal price.  Apartments are double - and that's if you can even find a house or apartment.

At the same time, technology threatening to take jobs away.  

Not too mention our own politicians sowing the seeds of hatred and civil war.  

There will be a breaking point.  Most likely not in the next 10-15 years, but I believe it will happen if things don't change..

 

My daughter does not like living in Texas.  She is extremely liberal and feminist (not sure how this happened  ) - so she does not like it here and wants to move.

Her boyfriend/fiancé is Vietnamese, so they could move there. 

However, my daughter worries because of the perception of Americans outside the US.  She feels we are not liked (and I can certainly understand that)

Right now they home school my granddaughter - and she is further along than if she was in school.  But, she is not learning other important things, like learning to get along with others.   

 

I tried my best to hit on a few different things without making this post drag on forever.

Let me know if you want more info on anything.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to give such a comprehensive reply, it's all really interesting stuff 

 

I suppose what I still can't understand is why any of it means that owning a firearm, and presumably being prepared to use it, would make people feel safer? It's probably me just not getting it, but when I read the latest news about the three most recent shootings which have left another twelve people dead, I can't help but think that if the same arguments had happened in bars elsewhere in the world they probably would have just ended in a fist fight, at most. More likely in just a heated argument... 

 

Surely knowing that a vast number of people are carrying guns, and the regularity with which they are used, would make you feel less safe, not more so? 

 

Oh and your daughter sounds like she would fit in really well in Europe 

[marbles]

3 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

Thanks for taking the time to give such a comprehensive reply, it's all really interesting stuff 

 

I suppose what I still can't understand is why any of it means that owning a firearm, and presumably being prepared to use it, would make people feel safer? It's probably me just not getting it, but when I read the latest news about the three most recent shootings which have left another twelve people dead, I can't help but think that if the same arguments had happened in bars elsewhere in the world they probably would have just ended in a fist fight, at most. More likely in just a heated argument... 

 

Surely knowing that a vast number of people are carrying guns, and the regularity with which they are used, would make you feel less safe, not more so? 

 

Oh and your daughter sounds like she would fit in really well in Europe 

I think the owning a gun comes down to this - You own one because you know other people own one.  Silly, I know but its the only explanation I can come up with.

I cant defend it, all I can do is try and come up with reasoning behind it.  Yes, I know the reasoning doesn't make much sense.   

[Jattdogg]

13 hours ago, NYC Fox Fan said:

4 blocks from where I am moving to…

Do the american thing....if they go big, you go bigger. Surely,  you can afford a tank to protect yourself from madmen/women?

[NYC Fox Fan]

16 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

Do the american thing....if they go big, you go bigger. Surely,  you can afford a tank to protect yourself from madmen/women?

My wife said I should phone Richard Hammond and ask him where that Marauder went.

[FoxesDeb]

BBC News - Uvalde attack: US House passes gun bill doomed to fail in senate

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61742732

 

The video is absolutely heartbreaking. God help all the poor children living in their completely fvcked up country through no choice of their own 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

BBC News - Uvalde attack: US House passes gun bill doomed to fail in senate

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61742732

 

The video is absolutely heartbreaking. God help all the poor children living in their completely fvcked up country through no choice of their own 

Indeed.

 

And, to expand on the bolded...who does have the choice to change things? And who is not doing so despite these heartbreaking appeals purely for the sake of their own self-interest?

 

Answers on a postcard.

[BKLFox]

1 hour ago, FoxesDeb said:

BBC News - Uvalde attack: US House passes gun bill doomed to fail in senate

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61742732

 

The video is absolutely heartbreaking. God help all the poor children living in their completely fvcked up country through no choice of their own 

It’s madness and even worse to think since that day 700 other people have lost their lives due to the power of a gun

 

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/gun-laws-more-than-700-people-shot-dead-in-the-us-since-the-texas-school-shooting-12629378

[FoxesDeb]

9 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

It’s madness and even worse to think since that day 700 other people have lost their lives due to the power of a gun

 

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/gun-laws-more-than-700-people-shot-dead-in-the-us-since-the-texas-school-shooting-12629378

What a sad quotation from that article:

 

"This chart of daily gun deaths shows that the day of Uvalde wasn't even exceptional in the US - there have only been five days since the shooting on which fewer deaths occurred from guns than on 24 May".

[BKLFox]

2 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

What a sad quotation from that article:

 

"This chart of daily gun deaths shows that the day of Uvalde wasn't even exceptional in the US - there have only been five days since the shooting on which fewer deaths occurred from guns than on 24 May".

Yep I’ve been re-reading it and just breaks your heart and makes you even more angry with the powers that be when they say these types of mass shootings are very rare, that as maybe, but when in a 2 week period 23 under 12s and 66 teenagers are killed in potentially 89 separate incidents as well as the remaining 641 lives go under the radar as if they don’t count 😔 

[Phenom]

On 04/06/2022 at 13:50, marbles said:

Lawmakers feeling the need to protect criminals, instead of citizens - see California for example.

Civil unrest.  Neither political party shows the slightest desire to work on anything together, and it’s trickled to normal people.  Look at the hatred people exhibit now if they come across an opposing viewpoint.  There seems to no longer be an attempt to understand.  Only attack - worst of all, it’s encouraged by our politicians.

 

Finally, police backlash.  It’s at the point now where people are flat out lying in in order to continue painting police in a bad light (not saying there aren’t bad cops.  Not saying that at all). There is an ongoing agenda to remove/defund law enforcement. Who will then protect average citizens?  It’s no coincidence that when the whole “Defund the Police” initiative kicked off, gun sales went through the roof.  
I know it can be hard to understand for someone living in another country.  Ask yourself this.  In 2021, 61% of Republicans lived in a house with a gun - makes sense considering what they believe.  31% of Democrats live in a house with a gun - why? 
I’ll tell you why.  They do not feel safe.

 

 

Police don’t protect people in the US. If the past couple of weeks haven’t made that clear I don’t know what else will.