US Gun Violence

[Foxdiamond]

14 minutes ago, Phenom said:

Police don’t protect people in the US. If the past couple of weeks haven’t made that clear I don’t know what else will.

How many officers lost in the line of duty? Even if the laws changed today and their was an amnesty with so many guns in circulation it would be years before the culture would change I fear. How do the pro gun lobby explain why US has so many gun murders. Do they think other countries are all under control of a police state without freedom. 

[Countryfox]

On 25/05/2022 at 08:06, marbles said:

 The guns need to go.

 

 

On 04/06/2022 at 18:42, marbles said:

I WANT TO SEE GUNS BANNED!

 

 

On 04/06/2022 at 18:59, marbles said:

Abolish guns. 

 

On 04/06/2022 at 19:01, marbles said:

 

We have clearly proven, as Americans, that we cant handle the responsibility of owning firearms.

 

 

On 04/06/2022 at 21:13, FoxesDeb said:

Don't you own one? 

 

On 04/06/2022 at 21:20, marbles said:

I do 

 

I don't want to sound flippant but it's no wonder they have a problem ...  

 

[FoxesDeb]

9 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

How many officers lost in the line of duty? Even if the laws changed today and their was an amnesty with so many guns in circulation it would be years before the culture would change I fear. How do the pro gun lobby explain why US has so many gun murders. Do they think other countries are all under control of a police state without freedom. 

Possibly, we met some Americans earlier this week at a bar in Portugal and they couldn't believe orange juice there was made with the actual juice of oranges. It was like it was the most amazing revelation  Nothing would surprise me anymore with them and their ignorance of the world outside the good old US of A. 

 

I think many of them live under the very firm belief that their country is better than everywhere else, without realising that much of the western world actually looks upon them with a mixture of pity, hilarity, and incredulity at the way they are so backwards in so many ways. 

[Scotch]

42 minutes ago, Phenom said:

Police don’t protect people in the US. If the past couple of weeks haven’t made that clear I don’t know what else will.

Correction, the police CAN'T protect people in the US. The current gun laws don't allow them too. You can walk past an army of officers with an AR15 strapped to your chest and a bag full of ammo and they couldn't do so much as to ask you your name...Well they could but you're not obligated to answer! 

 

What chance do they have of policing that? 

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Scotch said:

Correction, the police CAN'T protect people in the US. The current gun laws don't allow them too. You can walk past an army of officers with an AR15 strapped to your chest and a bag full of ammo and they couldn't do so much as to ask you your name...Well they could but you're not obligated to answer! 

 

What chance do they have of policing that? 

They did clean up New York a few years back though, with a zero tolerance police force, but i've heard it's gone to pot again. I read that one of the problems is that from a young age, americans are taught about the American dream "the ideal by which equality of opportunity is available to any American, allowing the highest aspirations and goals to be achieved", but when they finish school/college, a lot of middle class young people find that the american dream is really only aimed at the wealthy and privileged, so they turn to crime for money or end up going on shooting rampage as an act of revenge.

[Scotch]

6 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

They did clean up New York a few years back though, with a zero tolerance police force, but i've heard it's gone to pot again. I read that one of the problems is that from a young age, americans are taught about the American dream "the ideal by which equality of opportunity is available to any American, allowing the highest aspirations and goals to be achieved", but when they finish school/college, a lot of middle class young people find that the american dream is really only aimed at the wealthy and privileged, so they turn to crime for money or end up going on shooting rampage as an act of revenge.

That's the thing about the "American dream" though isn't it? Its so subjective. To kids grown up in relative comfort (upper working class) the American dream is becoming a YouTuber or influencer and becoming rich doing very little. To an immigrant coming from real poverty in South America or Africa, the American dream is owning your own car so you can work 70 hours a week for Uber and provide your family with that same upper working class lifestyle. 

[Lionator]

32 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

They did clean up New York a few years back though, with a zero tolerance police force, but i've heard it's gone to pot again. I read that one of the problems is that from a young age, americans are taught about the American dream "the ideal by which equality of opportunity is available to any American, allowing the highest aspirations and goals to be achieved", but when they finish school/college, a lot of middle class young people find that the american dream is really only aimed at the wealthy and privileged, so they turn to crime for money or end up going on shooting rampage as an act of revenge.

 

In an Adam Curtis voice…

“But it was all just an illusion” - fades to Ulvade clips with Burial playing over the top. 

Edited 9 June 2022 by Lionator

[marbles]

5 hours ago, Phenom said:

Police don’t protect people in the US. If the past couple of weeks haven’t made that clear I don’t know what else will.

You say this to be flippant, but it explains why gun sales are so high 

[marbles]

5 hours ago, Countryfox said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want to sound flippant but it's no wonder they have a problem ...  

 

Once I feel criminals aren’t treated better than honest citizens.

Once I feel like people are not trying to build a bigger divide every day.

It shouldn’t be hard to do.

Then I will get rid of it.

[Foxdiamond]

5 minutes ago, marbles said:

Once I feel criminals aren’t treated better than honest citizens.

Once I feel like people are not trying to build a bigger divide every day.

It shouldn’t be hard to do.

Then I will get rid of it.

Please could you confirm if non gun owners  are more likely to be murdered than gun owners in your state or in US in general 

[marbles]

5 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

Possibly, we met some Americans earlier this week at a bar in Portugal and they couldn't believe orange juice there was made with the actual juice of oranges. It was like it was the most amazing revelation  Nothing would surprise me anymore with them and their ignorance of the world outside the good old US of A. 

 

I think many of them live under the very firm belief that their country is better than everywhere else, without realising that much of the western world actually looks upon them with a mixture of pity, hilarity, and incredulity at the way they are so backwards in so many ways. 

The failure of our education system.  Another wonderful topic.

Its now about what can and can’t be said, and what specifically is on what year, rather than just getting down to actually educating children.

 

We do believe our country is great.  As do most people about their own country.  Nothing wrong with having some pride.

[HighPeakFox]

5 minutes ago, marbles said:

The failure of our education system.  Another wonderful topic.

Its now about what can and can’t be said, and what specifically is on what year, rather than just getting down to actually educating children.

 

We do believe our country is great.  As do most people about their own country.  Nothing wrong with having some pride.

National pride is great, thinking you're the greatest nation on earth (i.e. better than everyone else) - not so much.

[Mr Weller]

There’s pride in your country and there’s blind faith to the point where obvious weaknesses are ignored or simply written off as necessary evils.
 

The irony of the American dream is it describes the country as it was 100 years ago. Today social mobility in the US is well below most developed nations.

[marbles]

5 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

National pride is great, thinking you're the greatest nation on earth (i.e. better than everyone else) - not so much.

I honestly don’t get that thinking.

Maybe it’s another cultural difference.

If you could, tell me why it would be bad for people in the UK to believe it’s the greatest country on earth.  I am honestly curious.

[marbles]

2 hours ago, Mr Weller said:

There’s pride in your country and there’s blind faith to the point where obvious weaknesses are ignored or simply written off as necessary evils.
 

 

I agree with this statement.

im contending that despite knowing the flaws, it’s okay for someone to still think their country is the greatest.

[marbles]

5 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

Please could you confirm if non gun owners  are more likely to be murdered than gun owners in your state or in US in general 

Ok - there are stats, but not accurate for what I am talking about.

A gun owner is a lot more likely to be killed trying to protect themselves.  But the stats I’ve seen also include trying to protect yourself in public.  Such as someone trying to rob you., and you get shot trying to take out your gun.

What is also unknown, is how many times you protect your home, and the police are not called.  Which is common in low income neighborhoods.

 

Stats don’t always matter to most people.

Stats say it’s safer to fly Tehran drive, but there are still people afraid of flying.

You are more likely to be hit by lightning, than win the lottery.  People still play.

Hell, Kim Kardashian was more likely to become US President, than Leicester City winning the league in 2015/2016 (according to odds makers), but….. 

 

 

Edited 10 June 2022 by marbles

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, marbles said:

I honestly don’t get that thinking.

Maybe it’s another cultural difference.

If you could, tell me why it would be bad for people in the UK to believe it’s the greatest country on earth.  I am honestly curious.

If I might take this one up...believing that your country is the greatest on Earth comes, inherently, rightly or wrongly, with the belief that other countries are inferior.

 

Start going down that road, and there's all manner of bad things that can and are done in the name of believing in that inferiority.

[Jon the Hat]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

If I might take this one up...believing that your country is the greatest on Earth comes, inherently, rightly or wrongly, with the belief that other countries are inferior.

 

Start going down that road, and there's all manner of bad things that can and are done in the name of believing in that inferiority.

Other countries may well be inferior.  I think the problem comes from assuming they all are, and indeed getting complacent about your country because you can point at others who do a particular things much worse.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Other countries may well be inferior.  I think the problem comes from assuming they all are, and indeed getting complacent about your country because you can point at others who do a particular things much worse.

Yep. And the point is the line between some and all often gets very very blurry and equally as often gets crossed.

[marbles]

I get your points.

I think it’s also something ingrained in us at an early age…

 

“Look how we spanked the nasty Brits and won our independence”

 

”we stopped Hitler!  Other countries helped, by holding our ammo!”

 

”We so great, that other people die trying to come here”

 

Even in sports, we push things we are great at.  Baseball? Eh.  Soccer? Eh.  Basketball and Football are the important ones!

Edited 10 June 2022 by marbles

[Jon the Hat]

13 minutes ago, marbles said:

I get your points.

I think it’s also something ingrained in us at an early age…

 

“Look how we spanked the nasty Brits and won our independence”

 

”we stopped Hitler!  Other countries helped, by holding our ammo!”

 

”We so great, that other people die trying to come here”

 

Even in sports, we push things we are great at.  Baseball? Eh.  Soccer? Eh.  Basketball and Football are the important ones!

Who else is good at baseball?  Japan?

[marbles]

16 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Who else is good at baseball?  Japan?

I don’t think they are.  I believe they play a purer form, but also believe they may still use a slightly larger ball.  Although the players who have made a MLB roster have mostly been great.

 

I believe most Latin-American countries are far superior.

Take it for what it’s worth, but in World rankings, even Korea is ranked higher.

[HighPeakFox]

3 hours ago, marbles said:

I honestly don’t get that thinking.

Maybe it’s another cultural difference.

If you could, tell me why it would be bad for people in the UK to believe it’s the greatest country on earth.  I am honestly curious.

I'm just more interested in promoting humanity across the world, rather than flag waving. We all inhabit the same planet, we all breathe the same air etc.

[Captain...]

3 hours ago, marbles said:

I agree with this statement.

im contending that despite knowing the flaws, it’s okay for someone to still think their country is the greatest.

I'd be surprised if many people on here would say the UK is the greatest country. Mostly we will appreciate how lucky we are to live in a safe modern democracy, and don't want to live elsewhere but we will all look enviously at other countries for other things. The US is certainly better than the UK in a number of ways, but Scandinavian countries have a better quality of life, southern European countries have much better weather and food. Germany is a fantastic country for beer. Australia, UAE, Brazil, Japan all have things that are better than the UK and things that are worse. We adopt numerous things from these cultures. We have seen on a number of occasions the dangers when being proud of your country turns into a sinister hatred of others.

[Captain...]

9 hours ago, marbles said:

Once I feel criminals aren’t treated better than honest citizens.

Once I feel like people are not trying to build a bigger divide every day.

It shouldn’t be hard to do.

Then I will get rid of it.

Can I ask have you ever had to fire your gun? Or even draw it in self defence or defence of property? How many people do you know that own guns and how many have had to use them.

 

How much of this is a real threat and how much is a perceived threat based on a culture of fear?