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marbles

US Gun Violence

By marbles, in General Chat

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Foxdiamond

Foxdiamond

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, marbles said:

Ok - there are stats, but not accurate for what I am talking about.

A gun owner is a lot more likely to be killed trying to protect themselves.  But the stats I’ve seen also include trying to protect yourself in public.  Such as someone trying to rob you., and you get shot trying to take out your gun.

What is also unknown, is how many times you protect your home, and the police are not called.  Which is common in low income neighborhoods.

 

Stats don’t always matter to most people.

Stats say it’s safer to fly Tehran drive, but there are still people afraid of flying.

You are more likely to be hit by lightning, than win the lottery.  People still play.

Hell, Kim Kardashian was more likely to become US President, than Leicester City winning the league in 2015/2016 (according to odds makers), but….. 

 

 

Thanks marbles. It does seem fear is the driving force for many of US citizens fuelled by the gun lobby and those that just love guns. I noticed your earlier post that you have a handgun only. This and people living in remote areas I can understand why hunting rifles or shotguns maybe required. What does seem crazy is how the military type semi or automatic rifle etc is allowed in your country. Has this always been thus?

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BKLFox

BKLFox

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, marbles said:

Ok - there are stats, but not accurate for what I am talking about.

A gun owner is a lot more likely to be killed trying to protect themselves.  But the stats I’ve seen also include trying to protect yourself in public.  Such as someone trying to rob you., and you get shot trying to take out your gun.

What is also unknown, is how many times you protect your home, and the police are not called.  Which is common in low income neighborhoods.

 

Stats don’t always matter to most people.

Stats say it’s safer to fly Tehran drive, but there are still people afraid of flying.

You are more likely to be hit by lightning, than win the lottery.  People still play.

Hell, Kim Kardashian was more likely to become US President, than Leicester City winning the league in 2015/2016 (according to odds makers), but….. 

 

 

We here in the UK are generally told not to fight back if being robbed by someone with a weapon, obviously if it came to fists only you might be tempted to have a go but if someone approached me with a knife and had that look of someone who didn’t care then I would hand over my wallet…. Does it make me a coward if they took my wallet and ran off?
What can I carry on my person that can’t be replaced? I’d rather go through the ball ache of cancelling my cards, getting insurance to get me a new phone etc than to bleed out on the street.

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FoxesDeb

FoxesDeb

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

We here in the UK are generally told not to fight back if being robbed by someone with a weapon, obviously if it came to fists only you might be tempted to have a go but if someone approached me with a knife and had that look of someone who didn’t care then I would hand over my wallet…. Does it make me a coward if they took my wallet and ran off?
What can I carry on my person that can’t be replaced? I’d rather go through the ball ache of cancelling my cards, getting insurance to get me a new phone etc than to bleed out on the street.

Agreed. I wouldn't think twice about handing my things over either, everything material can be replaced, and it's certainly no good trying to hang on to your belongings if you end up dead.  

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marbles

marbles

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1 hour ago, Captain... said:

Can I ask have you ever had to fire your gun? Or even draw it in self defence or defence of property? How many people do you know that own guns and how many have had to use them.

 

How much of this is a real threat and how much is a perceived threat based on a culture of fear?

I don’t take it outside my house.

I’ve never pulled, pointed or shot at anyone.

I do take it to the range every 3-4 months, just to practice with it for about 30-45 minutes.  
 

Including people I work with, I will guess around 75% own guns.  Some like me, others with full arsenals.  A guy at my last job actually shot and killed someone’s.  He was convicted of manslaughter - got no jail time.

 

Pulling a gun is not something that really gets talked about.  Most people don’t even talk about whether or not they own one unless asked.

 

Where I live, it’s a perceived threat.  However, there are neighborhoods where it is a very real way of life.

 

 

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marbles

marbles

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1 hour ago, Foxdiamond said:

Thanks marbles. It does seem fear is the driving force for many of US citizens fuelled by the gun lobby and those that just love guns. I noticed your earlier post that you have a handgun only. This and people living in remote areas I can understand why hunting rifles or shotguns maybe required. What does seem crazy is how the military type semi or automatic rifle etc is allowed in your country. Has this always been thus?

I had to look this up, but military style semi-auto rifles have been available in the US for purchase since 1906


They’ve always been around, but they seem to be more prevalent over the past 20 years.  They are definitely easier to get now.

Here in Texas, just about every city and town has a gun shop where you can buy anything “legal”.

A lot of gun ranges offer a feature where you can pay to try out a semi-auto rifle at the range.

I mentioned this earlier, but here in Dallas/Ft Worth, there is a gun show, somewhere, every weekend.  Gun shows have the least restrictions when buying guns.

All the shootings.  All the school shootings, since Columbine.  I honestly can’t think of anything that’s changed to curb gun sales.  I could be wrong, but if I am, it’s really insignificant.

 

 

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marbles

marbles

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47 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Agreed. I wouldn't think twice about handing my things over either, everything material can be replaced, and it's certainly no good trying to hang on to your belongings if you end up dead.  

The people who try to stop a robbery on the street, are the ones who get killed.  The criminal already has his gun out, pointed at you.  If you reach for yours - you are dead.  Sounds simple, but it still happens.

Most criminals don’t want to shoot you in an alley, because the noise will draw attention.

Same with carjackings.  It’s pointless to put up a fight, because the gun is usually pointed in your face.  
 

The gun nuts, are the wanna be cowboys.  They carry their gun “just in case”.  There have been a couple (maybe more, but not many) instances where these people have actually saved themselves or others. One happen about a year ago, right near my work.

 

Most people who have guns for protection, have them for the home.  

 

 

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Foxdiamond

Foxdiamond

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31 minutes ago, marbles said:

I had to look this up, but military style semi-auto rifles have been available in the US for purchase since 1906


They’ve always been around, but they seem to be more prevalent over the past 20 years.  They are definitely easier to get now.

Here in Texas, just about every city and town has a gun shop where you can buy anything “legal”.

A lot of gun ranges offer a feature where you can pay to try out a semi-auto rifle at the range.

I mentioned this earlier, but here in Dallas/Ft Worth, there is a gun show, somewhere, every weekend.  Gun shows have the least restrictions when buying guns.

All the shootings.  All the school shootings, since Columbine.  I honestly can’t think of anything that’s changed to curb gun sales.  I could be wrong, but if I am, it’s really insignificant.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I think for many of us we share so much culture with the US that we are feel close but at the same time find amazed at the differences. I saw a UK news reporter interview with Ted Cruz and she tried earnestly to probe him on the issue. He picked up that she was not American and well the UK has no second amendment and she was driving a political agenda. I wish you well.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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15 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

@marbles, you're an asset to this forum :thumbup:

I would second this - a most informative and interesting perspective from that side of the world.

 

It does however highlight just how absurd both (some of) US and UK perspectives on this issue appear to each other, though.

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marbles

marbles

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Posted (edited)

Thanks guys.  I really do appreciate it.

I also appreciate everyone here being open minded enough to have discussions.  We won’t always agree, but at least we respect each other enough to try and understand reasoning behind beliefs that are different from our own.

Discussion is how you change opinions.  Not talking down, or name calling.  Something I wish my politicians could understand.

 

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marbles

marbles

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23 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

Thanks for the info. I think for many of us we share so much culture with the US that we are feel close but at the same time find amazed at the differences. I saw a UK news reporter interview with Ted Cruz and she tried earnestly to probe him on the issue. He picked up that she was not American and well the UK has no second amendment and she was driving a political agenda. I wish you well.

Yeah, Ted Cruz is an idiot.

Problem is that he’s had no serious competition from a Republican or Democrat here in Texas.

Even after the winter weather debacle last year, I don’t see him going anywhere.

Too bad the Dems hitched their wagon to Beto.  
 

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Foxdiamond

Foxdiamond

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43 minutes ago, marbles said:

Like him or not, Bill Maher is spot on

 

 

Spot on. I hate what I call crash, bang, wallop films. The cartoon nature of the violence and that the hero suffers a nothing but a flesh wound. If you look at 2 of the best war films ever made like Pte Ryan or Paths Of Glory you never think wow war looks like fun or is cool. The sick glamour attached to these wallop films is appalling.

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BKLFox

BKLFox

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39 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Spot on. I hate what I call crash, bang, wallop films. The cartoon nature of the violence and that the hero suffers a nothing but a flesh wound. If you look at 2 of the best war films ever made like Pte Ryan or Paths Of Glory you never think wow war looks like fun or is cool. The sick glamour attached to these wallop films is appalling.

Agree with that, SPR (beach landing mainly) and Schindler’s list are 2 movies that just drops the viewers jaw into silence and all but take you in as if you were there with the emotion it brings, especially knowing it’s only a glimpse of the reality

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Foxdiamond

Foxdiamond

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12 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Agree with that, SPR (beach landing mainly) and Schindler’s list are 2 movies that just drops the viewers jaw into silence and all but take you in as if you were there with the emotion it brings, especially knowing it’s only a glimpse of the reality

Schindler's List almost made you forget it was a movie. Moving and humbling to watch.

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marbles

marbles

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43 minutes ago, Parafox said:

It's making a serious point but using satire to make it.

 

 

Exactly!

He covers a lot of political issues, using comedy to point at the ridiculousness of it.

 

 

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FoxesDeb

FoxesDeb

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50 minutes ago, Parafox said:

It's making a serious point but using satire to make it.

 

 

Clearly lost on me then lol I got confused when posters said he was spot on, so assumed it was serious, rather than the satirical comedy I saw it as...! I have never claimed to be intelligent though :ph34r:

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