Manley Farrington-Brown Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 2 minutes ago, K1FOX said: But if you woke up tomorrow and decided to sleep with a man then would you be choosing to be gay? No. You can't choose to be gay. Or straight. If I woke up tomorrow and found that I was attracted to a man, I'd have to consider that I mignt actually be gay, or at least bi, but you can't decide to be gay. Or straight. You can decide to have sex, but that isn't the same thing at all.
Mark_w Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 3 minutes ago, K1FOX said: The term mentioned from foxesdeb was sexuality. I believe it’s a choice, you don’t. Nothing wrong with that. As mentioned previously each to their own. But if you woke up tomorrow and decided to sleep with a man then would you be choosing to be gay? I think the point being made, is that sexuality is about sexual preference. You are basing everything on sexual activity, which is not what being 'gay' or 'straight' is about. Do you think that everybody is asexual until they lose their virginity because they haven't had sex? I assume/really hope you don't. Homosexuality is being sexually attracted only to people of the same sex. I'm assuming you're a heterosexual man? (as am I). Presumably you don't choose which women you're sexually attracted to, you're just attracted to them. There might be features that you find particularly arousing, but they're not something you've actively decided makes you horny - it's just natural. So why would you struggle with the idea that some men are naturally attracted to particular men or to features that are most commonly found in men? Or that some women are naturally attracted to women. But I think the main thing to take away here, is that you claim to have a view of 'each to their own' when it comes to people 'choosing' to be gay, which would be really noble. If you didn't also have an 'each to their own' approach to authoritarian regimes interpreting faith in a way that allows them to justify inflicting corporal punishment on people simply for their choice to have consensual sex with the people they love.
K1FOX Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 3 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said: No. You can't choose to be gay. Or straight. If I woke up tomorrow and found that I was attracted to a man, I'd have to consider that I mignt actually be gay, or at least bi, but you can't decide to be gay. Or straight. You can decide to have sex, but that isn't the same thing at all. I reckon mine and your definition of what makes someone ‘Gay’ differs slightly. If you decide to have sex with a man tomorrow you are deciding to be gay. Attraction is a whole different story altogether - if you start teaching kids at primary school to explore then naturally these inquisitive children will grow up experimenting. They’re still making a choice to do so but the strings are being pulled by someone else. 2
Mark_w Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 1 minute ago, K1FOX said: If you decide to have sex with a man tomorrow you are deciding to be gay. Do you not believe in bisexuality out of interest? Do you just think people switch rapidly between being gay and straight based on the last person they slept with? Maybe it's time to entertain the idea that you have an incredibly basic understanding of sexuality, and might have benefited from being taught about sexuality in primary school?
grobyfox1990 Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 I would like to stir Manley as i remember his username from Sunday and he enjoys a laugh but unfortunately I agree with him. I can't see how you can possibly 'choose' your sexuality. I have always been attracted to women since I can remember, there was no choice. I do observe that obviously good looking men such as George Clooney and Vicente Iborra are attractive, but I am not attracted to them. As hard as i try and whatever the reward on offer i simply would not be able to be 'ready to perform' if needed with Iborra. With any women, of course I could.
K1FOX Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 2 minutes ago, Mark_w said: I think the point being made, is that sexuality is about sexual preference. You are basing everything on sexual activity, which is not what being 'gay' or 'straight' is about. Do you think that everybody is asexual until they lose their virginity because they haven't had sex? I assume/really hope you don't. Homosexuality is being sexually attracted only to people of the same sex. I'm assuming you're a heterosexual man? (as am I). Presumably you don't choose which women you're sexually attracted to, you're just attracted to them. There might be features that you find particularly arousing, but they're not something you've actively decided makes you horny - it's just natural. So why would you struggle with the idea that some men are naturally attracted to particular men or to features that are most commonly found in men? Or that some women are naturally attracted to women. But I think the main thing to take away here, is that you claim to have a view of 'each to their own' when it comes to people 'choosing' to be gay, which would be really noble. If you didn't also have an 'each to their own' approach to authoritarian regimes interpreting faith in a way that allows them to justify inflicting corporal punishment on people simply for their choice to have consensual sex with the people they love. I find it hard to believe that a man is not attracted to a woman. Men are created with a natural inclination for women and Vice Versa. Again just my opinion. What a man or a woman decides to do with that is on them. You don’t interpret faith. Religion is religion - what is outlawed is outlawed. Clear rights and wrongs. A country who follows Islamic law will never openly allow homosexuality because being accepted by the rest of the world is far less important than following their faith.
oakman Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 Came to see why this thread was suddenly so popular. Regretted my visit immediately. 4
Manley Farrington-Brown Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 7 minutes ago, K1FOX said: I reckon mine and your definition of what makes someone ‘Gay’ differs slightly. If you decide to have sex with a man tomorrow you are deciding to be gay. I reckon our definitions do indeed differ. If I decide to have sex with a man tomorrow I am not deciding to 'be gay,' I am deciding to have sex with a man. 9 minutes ago, K1FOX said: if you start teaching kids at primary school to explore then naturally these inquisitive children will grow up experimenting. They’re still making a choice to do so but the strings are being pulled by someone else. I have no earthly idea what you're on about here, but I do have a suspicion that (a) I don't really want to, because (b) we are really not going to agree about any of it. 1
Manley Farrington-Brown Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 10 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said: I would like to stir Manley as i remember his username from Sunday and he enjoys a laugh but unfortunately I agree with him I do enjoy a laugh, 'tis true. And sorry for making you agree with me; I'll do my best to make sure it doesn't happen again! 😉 1
FoxesDeb Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 47 minutes ago, K1FOX said: Correct you’re born a male or a female. You choose whether you sleep with or a man or a woman. Or whether you date a man or a woman. Or whether you marry a man or a woman. Nothing wrong with choosing to be gay - each to their own. Not everyone is born a male or a female, and the bits you have at birth do not dictate who you are going to find attractive anyway. Christ almighty, are we actually having this conversation, in 2022? If you seriously believe that people choose to be gay, I'm choosing to believe you must be on the wind up. That or you really need to educate yourself.
Mark_w Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 4 minutes ago, K1FOX said: I find it hard to believe that a man is not attracted to a woman. Men are created with a natural inclination for women and Vice Versa. Again just my opinion. What a man or a woman decides to do with that is on them. You don’t interpret faith. Religion is religion - what is outlawed is outlawed. Clear rights and wrongs. A country who follows Islamic law will never openly allow homosexuality because being accepted by the rest of the world is far less important than following their faith. I mean you are just categorically wrong on both counts. There are many men who experience sexual attraction only to other men. And many who don't experience sexual attraction at all. To deny what people tell you they experience in their minds is unbelievably insulting. And you absolutely do interpret faith. And countries do use their interpretations of faith to decide which laws to implement. Almost every President of the United States in recorded history was Christian but look at their views on abortion and sexuality and they'll differ quite significantly. There are gay muslims. Heck there are gay imams. Everybody interprets their religion differently, it is not a case of clear rights and wrongs. 1
Footballwipe Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 9 minutes ago, lgfualol said: Christ almighty K1FOX has decided to die on his homophobic hill, and BOY is he going for it. 1
Manley Farrington-Brown Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 17 minutes ago, K1FOX said: I find it hard to believe that a man is not attracted to a woman It is true though that some men aren't. 17 minutes ago, K1FOX said: Men are created with a natural inclination for women and Vice Versa Most men are. And vice versa. But by no means all. 17 minutes ago, K1FOX said: Again just my opinion In this instance I'm afraid your opinion is demonstrably simply wrong.
K1FOX Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 (edited) Not going to bother replying to everyone because it’s clear we don’t agree. As a person of faith I would always stand by my faith over what someone else told me was otherwise. That might be difficult for people to understand but that’s the same issue on a larger scale with Qatar at the moment. People who believe in something are not going to bend over and change their way of thinking because they’re told to. What’s funny though is ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘freedom of expression’ is only ever allowed when it’s consistent to what the general narrative is. It’s okay to speak and promote for LGBTQ but the second you have a differing opinion you become homophobic. I’ve always maintained each to their own and the only reason we got so deep into this topic is due to the back and forth nature of the debate. Am I bothered by somebody being gay? Not at all. I respect them all the same. When all is said and done me believing it’s natural or unnatural doesn’t actually matter. Am I bothered by ‘LGBTQ’ being thrown in peoples faces? Yes 100%. Don’t go to where it’s not accepted if you don’t like the laws. In the same way am I unhappy with the way it’s being taught and thrown at kids in this country? Yes, but there’s nothing I can do about that because that’s this countries laws. Edited 24 November 2022 by K1FOX
Mark_w Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 2 minutes ago, K1FOX said: Not going to bother replying to everyone because it’s clear we don’t agree. As a person of faith I would always stand by my faith over what someone else told me was otherwise. That might be difficult for people to understand but that’s the same issue on a larger scale with Qatar at the moment. People who believe in something are not going to bend over and change their way of thinking because they’re told to. What’s funny though is ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘freedom of expression’ is only ever allowed when it’s consistent to what the general narrative is. It’s okay to speak and promote for LGBTQ but the second you have a differing opinion you become homophobic. I’ve always maintained each to their own and the only reason we got so deep into this topic is due to the back and forth nature of the debate. Am I bothered by somebody being gay? Not at all. I respect them all the same. Am I bothered by ‘LGBTQ’ being thrown in peoples faces? Yes 100%. Don’t go to where it’s not accepted if you don’t like the laws. It's surprising we've had such a back and forth debate when you're not allowed to speak or express yourself really isn't it? 1
K1FOX Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 2 minutes ago, Mark_w said: It's surprising we've had such a back and forth debate when you're not allowed to speak or express yourself really isn't it? I meant more the labelling as ‘homophonic’ further up. Don’t recall me labelling anyone else as anything.
Mark_w Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 Just now, K1FOX said: I meant more the labelling as ‘homophonic’ further up. Don’t recall me labelling anyone else as anything. Somebody labelling you homophobic is just expressing their freedom speech/thought though surely? You can't expect to have the freedom to say whatever you like about people, and then get all pissy when they do the same to you? Nobody is saying that you shouldn't be allowed to post because you're an idiot or a homophobe. They're just pointing out that they think you're an idiot or a homophobe. It's not an infringement on your right to freedom of speech or expression, don't pretend it is.
shade Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 2 hours ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said: Well apparently some people believe the world is flat. They're wrong. There are probably people who believe the sun goes round the earth. They're wrong. There are people who believe that everyone with brown skin should be kicked out of the UK. They're wrong. And if there really are people who believe sexuality is a choice, then they're wrong too. Wait until you find out, although I've been "in trouble" for stating this before, that ALL the largest and latest studies show that sexuality is only 8-25% genetic (25 being the absolute maximum although probably less), along with hormonal, environmental and social influences. It will blow your mind. 1
K1FOX Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 2 minutes ago, Mark_w said: Somebody labelling you homophobic is just expressing their freedom speech/thought though surely? You can't expect to have the freedom to say whatever you like about people, and then get all pissy when they do the same to you? Nobody is saying that you shouldn't be allowed to post because you're an idiot or a homophobe. They're just pointing out that they think you're an idiot or a homophobe. It's not an infringement on your right to freedom of speech or expression, don't pretend it is. Mate I’m honestly not bothered by the comment in here, was just pointing out it wasn’t regarding the back and forth because you questioned it. It was more of a general point anyway - I’m sure you’re clever enough to understand.
FoxesDeb Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 35 minutes ago, K1FOX said: I find it hard to believe that a man is not attracted to a woman. Men are created with a natural inclination for women and Vice Versa. Again just my opinion. What a man or a woman decides to do with that is on them. You don’t interpret faith. Religion is religion - what is outlawed is outlawed. Clear rights and wrongs. A country who follows Islamic law will never openly allow homosexuality because being accepted by the rest of the world is far less important than following their faith. So do you think all men are attracted to all women? And vice versa? Or do you think that you can't help which men/women people are attracted to, you just are attracted to some but not others?
Mark_w Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 Just now, K1FOX said: Mate I’m honestly not bothered by the comment in here, was just pointing out it wasn’t regarding the back and forth because you questioned it. It was more of a general point anyway - I’m sure you’re clever enough to understand. Surely that general point is disproved by your ability to express yourself freely in an environment where most people don't agree with you though? You said... 14 minutes ago, K1FOX said: ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘freedom of expression’ is only ever allowed when it’s consistent to what the general narrative is. but your participation in this conversation going against the 'general narrative' disproves that it's only ever allowed in such cases. If it's a more general point fine but it's still nonsense.
shade Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 Just now, Mark_w said: Surely that general point is disproved by your ability to express yourself freely in an environment where most people don't agree with you though? You said... but your participation in this conversation going against the 'general narrative' disproves that it's only ever allowed in such cases. If it's a more general point fine but it's still nonsense. the freedom of your speech ultimately lies with whomever holds the power in that instance, whether that be law makers, technology platform owners or moderators on a forum. 1
K1FOX Posted 24 November 2022 Posted 24 November 2022 1 minute ago, Mark_w said: Surely that general point is disproved by your ability to express yourself freely in an environment where most people don't agree with you though? You said... but your participation in this conversation going against the 'general narrative' disproves that it's only ever allowed in such cases. If it's a more general point fine but it's still nonsense. Again just to clarify doesn’t bother me one bit. But yeah was a general point and that is definitely the case in general. Thoughts on what shade has said btw? He’s provided stats?
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