Is anyone genuinely going to boycott?

[K1FOX]

8 minutes ago, Daggers said:

There seems to be a fair bit in this thread tbh

I’m all for do what makes you happy but don’t force it on others. Imagine choosing to go to a country and trying to tell them what to do and complaining that they aren’t having it. 

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

I’m just confused as to when one should be outraged to be honest.  

 

 

 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I’m just confused as to when one should be outraged to be honest.  

 

 

 

Everyone loved Saudi Arabia beating Argentina, seemingly forgetting the outrage they had for owning Newcastle... 

[when_you're_smiling]

10 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Everyone loved Saudi Arabia beating Argentina, seemingly forgetting the outrage they had for owning Newcastle... 

The people of Saudi Arabia don’t own Newcastle. You can be happy for them and against the regime that rule them.

 

You play for your country; not your government. 

[StanSP]

6 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

The people of Saudi Arabia don’t own Newcastle. You can be happy for them and against the regime that rule them.

 

You play for your country; not your government. 

Yeah my comment was half in jest! 

[Captain...]

On 22/11/2022 at 20:34, JamieG said:

Because had  they worn it, they would have worn it in Qatar... solely for Qatari political reasons

Therefore making the one love armband a  political statement.

 

Crazy how they pitched wearing one love armbands in Qatar  rather than say in a Carabao cup tie in Brighton for example 

 

Captain's like Neur and Kane have been wearing a full on rainbow armband for a while now. They agreed to tone it down to a 1 love armband that promotes tolerance and acceptance for all, and not just an LGBTQ thing. FIFA waited until the eve of the tournament to state that wearing these armbands would result in a booking.

 

This has come about because FIFA are changing the rules to appease Qatar not footballers changing behaviour to aggregate Qatar. The Germany hands over mouth gesture was aimed at FIFA not Qatar.

Edited 24 November 2022 by Captain...

[Footballwipe]

I get it all. I've listened to podcasts, listened to accounts, watched TV shows and completely acknowledge that this World Cup is a corrupt cesspool, organised by a corrupt cesspool organisation in a country which does not hold the values we want to host the biggest tournament on the planet.

 

The main takeaway for me is how tired I am with it all. I'm so tired of hearing this every day, reading this every day. I'm swimming in my white, straight male privilege I admit, and because of that I do carry guilt for how I feel, but it's so tiring.

 

Football, and the World Cup, was a wonderful escape for me. As a child it made an enormous impression on me. The World Cup was a mesmeric festival of football, 64 games in one month with players across the world, shocks, entertainment and the pinnacle of the sport I love. My childhood and young adult memories are so ingrained into me and just how much I enjoyed it all.

 

But now... now it's this. It's a World Cup in winter in a gulf state who purchased the people who voted for it. It's in a country which thinks some people's lives are illegal. It's nation states using clubs to sportswash, it's racism, homophobia. The awful side of humanity rearing its head in a game which was supposed to be an escape.

 

And I completely understand that this isn't new. FIFA has been like this for decades, the 1978 World Cup was sportswashing in an awful dictatorship. It's nothing new and in a way it's a good thing that we're being exposed to it all. But it's something. Every day. It's something. It's tiring. I can only carry and be outraged by so many things when I have to carry out my life and responsibilities as well as this.

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Everyone loved Saudi Arabia beating Argentina, seemingly forgetting the outrage they had for owning Newcastle... 

I think that was more so the underdog story. 

[JamieG]

8 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Captain's like Neur and Kane have been wearing a full on rainbow armband for a while now. They agreed to tone it down to a 1 love armband that promotes tolerance and acceptance for all, and not just an LGBTQ thing. FIFA waited until the eve of the tournament to state that wearing these armbands would result in a booking.

 

This has come about because FIFA are changing the rules to appease Qatar not footballers changing behaviour to aggregate Qatar. The Germany hands over mouth gesture was aimed at FIFA not Qatar.

Yeah during pride month which is marked down annually on the calender and is seen as a celebration. The same month which sees high streets up and down the country awash with rainbow flags hanging off shops everywhere. With big rainbow carnivals going on in every major city 

 

Which is completely different to  the whole thing in Qatar which was clearly contrived for no other reason other than to provoke an entire regime.

It's 100% political 

[shade]

26 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

I get it all. I've listened to podcasts, listened to accounts, watched TV shows and completely acknowledge that this World Cup is a corrupt cesspool, organised by a corrupt cesspool organisation in a country which does not hold the values we want to host the biggest tournament on the planet.

 

The main takeaway for me is how tired I am with it all. I'm so tired of hearing this every day, reading this every day. I'm swimming in my white, straight male privilege I admit, and because of that I do carry guilt for how I feel, but it's so tiring.

 

Football, and the World Cup, was a wonderful escape for me. As a child it made an enormous impression on me. The World Cup was a mesmeric festival of football, 64 games in one month with players across the world, shocks, entertainment and the pinnacle of the sport I love. My childhood and young adult memories are so ingrained into me and just how much I enjoyed it all.

 

But now... now it's this. It's a World Cup in winter in a gulf state who purchased the people who voted for it. It's in a country which thinks some people's lives are illegal. It's nation states using clubs to sportswash, it's racism, homophobia. The awful side of humanity rearing its head in a game which was supposed to be an escape.

 

And I completely understand that this isn't new. FIFA has been like this for decades, the 1978 World Cup was sportswashing in an awful dictatorship. It's nothing new and in a way it's a good thing that we're being exposed to it all. But it's something. Every day. It's something. It's tiring. I can only carry and be outraged by so many things when I have to carry out my life and responsibilities as well as this.

"white, straight male privilege" hehe.

[K1FOX]

If you want to see the hypocrisy of it all. Mesut Ozil spoke out about the genocide of Uyghur Muslims and was then shunned and silenced by Arsenal. He was driven out of the German side due to being friends with Erdogan of Turkey. 
 

So I ask, where’s the freedom of speech then? Why can certain causes be so important and others be so taboo to even speak about? 

[Captain...]

29 minutes ago, JamieG said:

Yeah during pride month which is marked down annually on the calender and is seen as a celebration. The same month which sees high streets up and down the country awash with rainbow flags hanging off shops everywhere. With big rainbow carnivals going on in every major city 

 

Which is completely different to  the whole thing in Qatar which was clearly contrived for no other reason other than to provoke an entire regime.

It's 100% political 

I thought Kane had worn it more often but I can't be arsed to go back through previous games, he didn't wear it in the last game so many be I'm wrong. Manuel Neuer, however, has worn it for a long time and was wearing it at Euro 2020. Whilst it is political it is not directed solely at Qatar.

[leicsmac]

28 minutes ago, shade said:

"white, straight male privilege" hehe.

I've said this before but I'll say it again because it's relevant here: when was the last time a straight person was killed for the express reason that they were straight?

 

That's privilege, even if people take it for granted.

[K1FOX]

12 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I've said this before but I'll say it again because it's relevant here: when was the last time a straight person was killed for the express reason that they were straight?

 

That's privilege, even if people take it for granted.

How many gay people have been killed in Qatar out of curiosity?

[shade]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

I've said this before but I'll say it again because it's relevant here: when was the last time a straight person was killed for the express reason that they were straight?

 

That's privilege, even if people take it for granted.

Everybody is privileged in different ways, you may be born good looking, you may be born with a higher IQ, you may be born with a set of personality traits that makes success more likely, you may be born athletic, you may be born to a wealthy family, you may be born to a loving family, you could be born with any myriad of "privileges", to distil it down to race, sexuality and gender just demonstrates the narrow minded, ideologically obsessed focus of the radical left.

 

The idea that you can target an ethnic, or gender-based group with a collective crime or claim of privilege regardless of the specific innocence or situation of the constituent elements of that group is abhorrent, there is nothing more racist or prejudicial than that. 

[Finnegan]

Just now, shade said:

to distil it down to race, sexuality and gender just demonstrates the narrow minded, ideologically obsessed focus of the radical left.

 

 

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

26 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

How many gay people have been killed in Qatar out of curiosity?

Oh just shut up. You're talking nonsense. It's cats that get killed out of curiosity, not gay people in Qatar.

 

 

Edited 24 November 2022 by Manley Farrington-Brown

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

56 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

So I ask, where’s the freedom of speech then? Why can certain causes be so important and others be so taboo to even speak about?

Surely if this were really your concern, rather than indulging in belittling whataboutery and speaking against the causes that people espouse, you'd say "Yes, good point. I also feel this about..." (or words to that effect). No?

[Footballwipe]

Radical left 

 

Off to get my Corbyn tattoo

[K1FOX]

8 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

Oh just shut up. You're talking nonsense. It's cats that get killed out of curiosity, not gay people in Qatar.

 

 

Just answer the question? Why are you enraged? 

[K1FOX]

4 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

Surely if this were really your concern, rather than indulging in belittling whataboutery and speaking against the causes that people espouse, you'd say "Yes, good point. I also feel this about..." (or words to that effect). No?

I have my thoughts and beliefs. And I respect others thoughts and beliefs. The question here though is of the hypocrisy of many. It’s all causes or no causes. If not then keep politics out of football.

[leicsmac]

37 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

How many gay people have been killed in Qatar out of curiosity?

Who said anything about Qatar?

 

I'm talking about the privilege straight people have *worldwide* that they can express their (monogamous) love for another person without the fear that someone, or some government, is going to seek to take their life specifically because of it.

 

NB. though if we are bound and determined to talk about Qatar, that LGBT folks there are subject to legal recourse in cases where straight people are not is privilege for the latter again. Having it be "criminalised, imprisoned or otherwise denigrated" rather than flat out "killed" isn't really the massive step up some folks think it might be.

 

37 minutes ago, shade said:

Everybody is privileged in different ways, you may be born good looking, you may be born with a higher IQ, you may be born with a set of personality traits that makes success more likely, you may be born athletic, you may be born to a wealthy family, you may be born to a loving family, you could be born with any myriad of "privileges", to distil it down to race, sexuality and gender just demonstrates the narrow minded, ideologically obsessed focus of the radical left.

 

The idea that you can target an ethnic, or gender-based group with a collective crime or claim of privilege regardless of the specific innocence or situation of the constituent elements of that group is abhorrent, there is nothing more racist or prejudicial than that. 

Before I answer this more fully (and believe me, I have some rather strong views on supposedly immutable qualities) I would like an answer to the above question, please. Just to make sure that goalposts aren't being moved and this discussion is in fact happening in good faith.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

33 minutes ago, shade said:

Everybody is privileged in different ways, you may be born good looking, you may be born with a higher IQ, you may be born with a set of personality traits that makes success more likely, you may be born athletic, you may be born to a wealthy family, you may be born to a loving family, you could be born with any myriad of "privileges", to distil it down to race, sexuality and gender just demonstrates the narrow minded, ideologically obsessed focus of the radical left.

 

The idea that you can target an ethnic, or gender-based group with a collective crime or claim of privilege regardless of the specific innocence or situation of the constituent elements of that group is abhorrent, there is nothing more racist or prejudicial than that. 

This sounds like you don't understand what 'privilege' means in this context. Which is fair enough tbh, because it isn't quite the same meaning as the more established use of the word. And that established meaning readily leads to a misunderstanding of the newer one.

 

Using the term 'white privilege,' for example, isn't to claim that white people are 'privileged' in the sense that they are going to be better off, or more successful. They may well be shockingly poor and unsuccessful. It just means that if so, their poverty and lack of success is not because they are white.

 

Similarly, I, for example, am a bloke. My 'male privilege' means that I've gone through life without being sexually harassed, patronised, overlooked, etc simply because of my gender. It does not mean that I've been born to success. It simply means that my failures and difficulties (had I had any 😉) are not because I'm a man.

 

I'm probably getting it wrong myself, and I'm certainly not doing the concept justice, but hopefully it's a start at least...

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

20 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

Just answer the question? Why are you enraged? 

I wasn't enraged; I made a joke.

 

Maybe not quite the funniest joke of all time (top ten though, I reckon, no probs), but a joke.

 

 

Edited 24 November 2022 by Manley Farrington-Brown
To add the "Maybe not quite the funniest joke of all time (top ten though, I reckon, no probs), but a joke." bit

[K1FOX]

7 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

I wasn't enraged; I made a joke.

I got the joke ha ha. 
 

It’s the ‘Shut up you’re talking nonsense’ part. No answer then?