How would you rate Southgate's tenure?

[katieakita]

Has a group of  fantastic players trained with no disrespect by  far greater coaches than him but he has had unbelievable draws in competitions. A SF, Final and QF looks good but in progressing in these tournaments did we beat anyone that was a shock, a penalty shout out win and Sweden for a place in a world cup semi final you would take every day of the week. A home tournament getting out of the group playing some of the most negative football you will see then beating a poor German side in a game that could have gone either way. A 4-0 demolition of a poor Ukraine side and a dodgy penalty for a win against Denmark and then the final where we lost trying to shithouse a win against the shithouse masters with their centre halves with a combined age of about 100 having a picnic. 

 

This time a decent win against Senegal who could have scored first but just too many what ifs for me. In all the games before France he had the chance to change things but bottled it because he is too negative. Was always going to be tough against France but no changes until 80th minute and then bringing off Saka who had their full back on toast shows his level. Ticks the right boxes and the press seem to love him so he will stay

 

[dylanlegend]

Average from Mr Average . Eveytime we played a half decent team we got beat 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

17 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I'd rate it as boring.

Come off it. 2018 was great (how can you possibly say that Columbia game was boring ), 2021 we literally made it to the final and BEAT GERMANY AT WEMBLEY, this year wasn't so good but how you can label some of the runs we've had as "boring" is unbelievable. Saturday night was "boring" was it? 

 

The biggest blot on the record for me is getting relegated in the nations league which seems to have flown under the radar. 

[The boy Linacre]

On 10/12/2022 at 21:35, Koke said:

So after 8 years and 4 tournaments, how would you rate the job Southgate has done? Bare in mind who he took over and the state England were in..

 

Has he achieved all he could, or underachiever, or overachieved?

 

Isn't it 6 years and 3 tournaments??  As I said in another thread, Joachim Low won the world cup in his 4th tournament.

Very good squad and they seem to like him, keep him in to the end of his contract.

Only other candidate is Tuchel and maybe keeping Southgate there might be the better option in the short term.

[Tommy G]

Media are absolutely desperate for him to carry on, don't understand it. He's worse at subs than Rodgers!

[foxfanazer]

17 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Media are absolutely desperate for him to carry on, don't understand it. He's worse at subs than Rodgers!

Mediocrity is lauded in this country 

[Greg2607]

So lets say that Southgate does go..... 

 

Reported shortlist includes Rodgers, Potter, Howe and Pochettino.... 

 

do we expect any of those 4 improve on the tournament results that Southgate has achieved? 

 

I don't have an opinion on that either way, but i'm not sure that 50% of that shortlist improves our results to the point where we win a tournament, 

[foxfanazer]

2 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

So lets say that Southgate does go..... 

 

Reported shortlist includes Rodgers, Potter, Howe and Pochettino.... 

 

do we expect any of those 4 improve on the tournament results that Southgate has achieved? 

 

I don't have an opinion on that either way, but i'm not sure that 50% of that shortlist improves our results to the point where we win a tournament, 

Yep. All 4 of them actually 

[Fox92]

6 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

So lets say that Southgate does go..... 

 

Reported shortlist includes Rodgers, Potter, Howe and Pochettino.... 

 

do we expect any of those 4 improve on the tournament results that Southgate has achieved? 

 

I don't have an opinion on that either way, but i'm not sure that 50% of that shortlist improves our results to the point where we win a tournament, 

All 4 are better managers so I would expect an improvement, yes.

[Tommy G]

16 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

So lets say that Southgate does go..... 

 

Reported shortlist includes Rodgers, Potter, Howe and Pochettino.... 

 

do we expect any of those 4 improve on the tournament results that Southgate has achieved? 

 

I don't have an opinion on that either way, but i'm not sure that 50% of that shortlist improves our results to the point where we win a tournament, 

Absolutely all 4 better than Southgate, without doubt. 

 

I suspect the FA will chase after Howe if Southgate jumps.

[Col city fan]

1 hour ago, foxfanazer said:

Mediocrity is lauded in this country 

Yes it is mate. Read your ‘Salieri’ and his ongoing combat with Mozart. Court Composer Salieri detested being ‘mediocre’, whilst Mozart was writing his first symphony at the age of 4 I think?

We embrace it. It’s almost as if we fear success and all it’ll bring.

[Col city fan]

1 hour ago, Greg2607 said:

So lets say that Southgate does go..... 

 

Reported shortlist includes Rodgers, Potter, Howe and Pochettino.... 

 

do we expect any of those 4 improve on the tournament results that Southgate has achieved? 

 

I don't have an opinion on that either way, but i'm not sure that 50% of that shortlist improves our results to the point where we win a tournament, 

As I’ve said before, the failure of the England international football team can’t be attributed to the manager alone. It’s far more complex than that.

I remember when we employed Capello. At last, we said, we have a true winner in post. A master tactician. 
Look how that turned out, essentially because the English lads fought his leadership. 

[Fox92]

3 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

As I’ve said before, the failure of the England international football team can’t be attributed to the manager alone. It’s far more complex than that.

I remember when we employed Capello. At last, we said, we have a true winner in post. A master tactician. 
Look how that turned out, essentially because the English lads fought his leadership. 

Read Rooney's recent interview about his time with England. He talkes about all the weird things Capello used to do. I read that article and then realised why we never won anything.

[Tommy Fresh]

14 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Yes it is mate. Read your ‘Salieri’ and his ongoing combat with Mozart. Court Composer Salieri detested being ‘mediocre’, whilst Mozart was writing his first symphony at the age of 4 I think?

We embrace it. It’s almost as if we fear success and all it’ll bring.

You bang on a lot about how it's in the culture of our society etc, but how do we win anything ever then in any sport?

Edited 12 December 2022 by Tommy Fresh

[Fox1norfolk]

12 hours ago, dylanlegend said:

Average from Mr Average . Eveytime we played a half decent team we got beat 

Not brave enough, played it too safe

[Balj]

The question I would pose is what do we want the England team to do. Is it to win the WC and/or Euros? If so we need an Ancelotti mindset for the tournament. Or do we want a process manager where we get the end result of a process, like Wenger qualifying for the Champions League endlessly but never winning it - at some statistical level Wenger was incredibly successful like Southgate can be seen to be. Fine if that’s the measure of success.

 

The FA is more inclined to the Wenger model but it doesn’t necessarily bring trophies nor does it being the mindset to absolutely want it enough at big moments.

 

I’ve said it elsewhere but the current England set up is not designed to win the big moments. They may be the better team but not the winners of the big moments in games.

[Col city fan]

4 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Read Rooney's recent interview about his time with England. He talkes about all the weird things Capello used to do. I read that article and then realised why we never won anything.

I’ve read it mate and boy, was he weird!

My point is, that approach had WORKED with the Italians in terms of domestic honours. With our lot, it absolutely didn’t!

ie it’s NOT only the managerial appt that is the salient factor. It’s much more than that.

We’ve gone through Christ knows how many England managers in my lifetime.. Robson (loved him btw), Keegan, Wally with the brolley, El Tel, etc etc etc 

None of them have seen us win anything.

It’s possibly a cultural thing? Our boys get too much too soon? Lack of real desire? Who knows? 

[foxfanazer]

10 minutes ago, Balj said:

The question I would pose is what do we want the England team to do. Is it to win the WC and/or Euros? If so we need an Ancelotti mindset for the tournament. Or do we want a process manager where we get the end result of a process, like Wenger qualifying for the Champions League endlessly but never winning it - at some statistical level Wenger was incredibly successful like Southgate can be seen to be. Fine if that’s the measure of success.

 

The FA is more inclined to the Wenger model but it doesn’t necessarily bring trophies nor does it being the mindset to absolutely want it enough at big moments.

 

I’ve said it elsewhere but the current England set up is not designed to win the big moments. They may be the better team but not the winners of the big moments in games.

Personally I'd just like to go into these type of games with some sort of belief that we could win. The play it safe culture we have isn't something I can get behind. This tournament is strangely being talked about as a success and I think its that mentality that needs changing. 

 

I'll give credit to Southgate for seemingly creating a good squad harmony but quite frankly that's all he's done imo. It won't happen but we need a more ballsy manager

Edited 12 December 2022 by foxfanazer

[Hammo]

Everything I am reading in the media at the moment is strangely hailing Southgate as if we actually beat France…not lost a huge World Cup quarter final that with shrewder, more flexible management we might easily - probably should - have won (and, who knows, gone on to lift the World Cup).

 

As far as I see it, yes he has created a well bonded group of fine footballers, who all seem to like him and his regime, but when it has come down to winning the really big matches - not those we are expected to win, against Sweden or Ukraine, but Italy and France etc, the ones that would lift England to a new level of stature and achievement - he is as guilty as all those England managers before him (except Alf Ramsey) of not being good enough.

 

It’s a harsh truth, but a truth nonetheless, and until England players can show us their medals, it will remain as such.

[Col city fan]

1 minute ago, foxfanazer said:

Personally I'd just like to go into these type of games with some sort of belief that we could win. The play it safe culture we have isn't something I can get behind 

I messaged my mate just before kick off saying simply ‘I hope we set out today to win the bloody game rather than to ‘not lose it’.

And again we started on the back foot, let the French get onto us, the ageing Griezmann pinging it about like Pirlo in his 20’s.. and conceded.

The message came through on my phone as soon as the first one went in:

’oh dear’…

This, in succinct terms, explains Southgate’s tenure as the England manager. As soon as there is any fear of the opposition.. operation defensive comes into his mind 

[Col city fan]

2 minutes ago, Hammo said:

Everything I am reading in the media at the moment is strangely hailing Southgate as if we actually beat France…not lost a huge World Cup quarter final that with shrewder, more flexible management we might easily - probably should - have won (and, who knows, gone on to lift the World Cup).

 

As far as I see it, yes he has created a well bonded group of fine footballers, who all seem to like him and his regime, but when it has come down to winning the really big matches - not those we are expected to win, against Sweden or Ukraine, but Italy and France etc, the ones that would lift England to a new level of stature and achievement - he is as guilty as all those England managers before him (except Alf Ramsey) of not being good enough.

 

It’s a harsh truth, but a truth nonetheless, and until England players can show us their medals, it will remain as such.

That’s exactly my point right there. This oozes out of every pore in this country at present. The pundits were all saying the same thing earlier.

The facts: We came, we lost, we went..

Does that necessitate praise?

 

 

[Balj]

16 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Personally I'd just like to go into these type of games with some sort of belief that we could win. The play it safe culture we have isn't something I can get behind. This tournament is strangely being talked about as a success and I think its that mentality that needs changing. 

 

I'll give credit to Southgate for seemingly creating a good squad harmony but quite frankly that's all he's done imo. It won't happen but we need a more ballsy manager

That’s my point exactly - our entire system under the FA and Southgate is to produce a formula which runs nicely and efficiently. The equivalent of Champions League qualification each year but not geared to winning the damn thing. I find the praise for Southgate and the camaraderie etc he has created frankly bizarre.