How would you rate Southgate's tenure?

[Koke]

So after 8 years and 4 tournaments, how would you rate the job Southgate has done? Bare in mind who he took over and the state England were in..

 

Has he achieved all he could, or underachiever, or overachieved?

 

Edited 10 December 2022 by Koke

[Nalis]

On balance he's par for me.

[Sharpe's Fox]

Fact is when it came to the crunch he never beat anyone of note. Same as Robson, Venables and Sven. Being better than Roy Hodgson shouldn't be the benchmark I'm afraid. In the words of Andrea Bocelli and Sarah Brightman, time to say goodbye.

[Izzy]

Whether people like it or not, Southgate will go down in history as one of England's most successful managers.

 

He has one of the highest win % ratio's and has won the most games as an England manager at major tournaments. That's just a fact.

 

The debate will always be about his style of play and who he picked but that's all subjective. I'd say he's done about par with the resources he's had. 

 

England have no divine right to win major tournaments and there are many other strong nations in world football. It's bloody difficult to get over the line.

 

P.S. I think he's actually a decent and honest bloke. Some of the personal abuse he gets is out of order IMO. The players seem to really like him.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 December 2022 by Izzy

[Kopfkino]

Err on the side of underachieved. 
 

The only big game he has won that we weren’t big favourites for is Germany and even then Germany clearly aren’t at their level at the moment. He’s been better than previous England managers at beating the teams we should beat but every time it’s mattered against anyone at our level, we’ve been found wanting. Fine if it’s once but not if it’s 3 times.

 

[Sly]

2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Whether people like it or not, Southgate will go down in history as one of England's most successful managers.

 

He has one of the highest win % ratio's and has won the most games as an England manager at major tournaments. That's just a fact.

 

The debate will always be about his style of play and who he picked but that's all subjective. I'd say he's done about par with the resources he's had. 

 

England have no divine right to win major tournaments and there are many other strong nations in world football. It's bloody difficult to get over the line.

 

P.S. I think he's actually a decent and honest bloke. Some of the personal abuse he gets in out of order IMO. The players seem to really like him.

 

 

 

 

 

100% spot on. 

[MattFox]

World Cup 2018- Got lucky with the draw and against Colombia, lost to a really good Croatia side

 

Euro 2020- Wasted opportunity to win a tournament on home soil, shit the bed against an average Italy in the final.

 

World Cup 2022- lost narrowly to the first good side we met, played well though.

 

Overall tactics and team choices very hit and miss however

 

Think the Euros is the only real black mark tbf

[Koke]

7 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Whether people like it or not, Southgate will go down in history as one of England's most successful managers.

 

He has one of the highest win % ratio's and has won the most games as an England manager at major tournaments. That's just a fact.

 

The debate will always be about his style of play and who he picked but that's all subjective. I'd say he's done about par with the resources he's had. 

 

England have no divine right to win major tournaments and there are many other strong nations in world football. It's bloody difficult to get over the line.

 

P.S. I think he's actually a decent and honest bloke. Some of the personal abuse he gets is out of order IMO. The players seem to really like him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with this but the Euro 2020 is a black mark against him. On home soil against an Italian team who didn't even make WC 2022. His tactics are hit and miss. Southgate is a likeable guy but I feel he could have won at least 1 trophy.

[LiberalFox]

Second best England manager easily. Either he's alright or England managers are all shit. 

[winteriscoming]

The players he has at his deposal he should of won something. Defo the euro’s last year. His tactics were to hang onto a 1 nil lead. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

Southgate like robson and the ilk won’t be appreciated until he’s gone, 

[Tielemans63]

He's won me over a bit this tournament. I personally feel he's been more positive this tournament and less conservative. Was pleased he didn't go 3 at the back tonight for example and I really thought that was good performance.

 

I get that it's down to fine margins and lost (again) but I really feel we were the better side and were incredibly unfortunate. The French will know they got away with one there.

 

Overall, I'd also agree that he's about par 

Edited 10 December 2022 by Tielemans63

[HybridFox]

Limited managerial ability. Did what he could, not what could have been under a top manager

[adam]

Lucky. 

[Col city fan]

26 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Whether people like it or not, Southgate will go down in history as one of England's most successful managers.

 

He has one of the highest win % ratio's and has won the most games as an England manager at major tournaments. That's just a fact.

 

The debate will always be about his style of play and who he picked but that's all subjective. I'd say he's done about par with the resources he's had. 

 

England have no divine right to win major tournaments and there are many other strong nations in world football. It's bloody difficult to get over the line.

 

P.S. I think he's actually a decent and honest bloke. Some of the personal abuse he gets is out of order IMO. The players seem to really like him.

 

 

 

 

 

Doesn’t matter mate. I’m not at all bothered about his ‘win rate’. It’s immaterial to me. What I do know is that we lost again when it really mattered. Same as Robson, El Tel, the list is endless.

When we really play a strong international side, he fails and we fail. Tonight, I genuinely thought that might finally end.

Being a good people person is one half of being a good football manager. Knowing what to do to win important matches is the acid test. Southgate doesn’t know how to. In that respect, he’s failed when it truly matters. Like all his predecessors have, except Alf Ramsay. Do you think anyone is going to look on in 30 or 40 or 50 years time and compare Southgate to the manager who actually won the World Cup? Not in a million years.

The question is, can we get a WINNER? Someone who can set us up to negotiate these games that really matter and end up successful?

Thats the important question. Or are you happy with reaching a quarter final? Fine if you are. I’m not. I thought we had a great chance tonight personally.

[Finnegan]

Whichever your opinion is, one thing that is significant is the same as Rodgers. Brendan Rodgers tenure at Leicester needs to be judged in the context of him having probably the best team and the best resources now that the club has ever had. Yes he's finished higher up the table more than most of our previous managers but he's also had more to work with. 

 

Yes, Southgate has gotten further in some tournaments than his predecessors but he's also done so with maybe the most talented group of players you've had, certainly in my lifetime, and with some extremely favourable draws. 

 

You have to look at him through this lens and not judge him arbitrarily based on what round of what tournaments he lost in. 

 

Ultimately, France created two very good goals from open play today whilst you were yet again relying on set pieces and conjured very little to threaten Lloris despite apparently being the better side. 

 

With the raft of attacking talent you have, it's shameful how blunt you are and what makes it more offensive is Rashford, Maddison, Grealish and Co all sat on the bench while you grind out a 2-1 loss with two defensive midfielders running round and Mason Mount as your go to game saving sub. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

About par. Beat the teams we were better than. Lost to the teams that were better than us. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

I don’t really get how people can say this squad is better than the golden generation honestly and arguably the 90s squads were better.

[MattFox]

Just now, The Horse's Mouth said:

I don’t really get how people can say this squad is better than the golden generation honestly and arguably the 90s squads were better.

Yeah , Shaw and Maguire are seen as surplus as club level, Stones is hit and miss. Rice is pretty average and Walker is past his best. 

 

Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Neville etc were all light years better than the current bunch on paper

 

 

[Foxdiamond]

Not winning the Euros is the big blot. Win that and a lot of pressure is eased. Getting that first major honour is the hardest.

[Guest]

Did OK. His biggest legacy, rather than navigating fairly straightforward draws in 2018 and 2020/2021, will probably be making the England setup something that players look forward to being a part of and that the public/media are broadly more supportive of. His strengths as a manager clearly lie away from the pitch and unfortunately the result of that is that while reaching a semi and a final felt like notable achievements they also felt like big missed opportunities, especially since we took the lead in both games.

 

Hopefully his successor will be able to combine the feelgood factor Southgate has helped to instil with some semblance of tactical competency and the desire/ability to harness the young attacking talent at our disposal.

[Pliskin]

Like Sven, he’s massively underachieved. But that’s no surprise when you’ve got a woefully average manager handling top class players. This crop of England players should have won a major trophy by now. I mean France are buggard, half their team is injured and we still were not able to beat them. 
 

England have the talent, but they’ve consistently got the managerial appointments wrong. The bloke was a disaster at Boro, ****ing Middlesborough…… he should have never been given the job. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

14 minutes ago, MattFox said:

Yeah , Shaw and Maguire are seen as surplus as club level, Stones is hit and miss. Rice is pretty average and Walker is past his best. 

 

Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Neville etc were all light years better than the current bunch on paper

 

 

From this current crop you’d probably only argue Foden, Bellingham and Kane being certs, and probably Pickford over Robinson 

[Stadt]

His game management against Croatia and Italy was shambolic 

[whoareyaaa]

Give it Pearce, Southgate can't take us any further