How would you rate Southgate's tenure?

[MattFox]

4 minutes ago, Stadt said:

His game management against Croatia and Italy was shambolic 

The Croatia game will probably be shown at coaching courses for the next 30 years as an example of bad practice.

 

Possibly one of the worst examples of elite level in game management ever 

 

 

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

28 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Yes, Southgate has gotten further in some tournaments than his predecessors but he's also done so with maybe the most talented group of players you've had, certainly in my lifetime, and with some extremely favourable draws. 

 

This squad has some ridiculous attacking talent but glaring dearths of quality at centre half and central midfield. I think Sven had more to pick from, with a better balance to boot.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

9 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Like Sven, he’s massively underachieved. But that’s no surprise when you’ve got a woefully average manager handling top class players. This crop of England players should have won a major trophy by now. I mean France are buggard, half their team is injured and we still were not able to beat them. 
 

England have the talent, but they’ve consistently got the managerial appointments wrong. The bloke was a disaster at Boro, ****ing Middlesborough…… he should have never been given the job. 

 

Massively underachieved ahahahha

[whoareyaaa]

2 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

This squad has some ridiculous attacking talent but glaring dearths of quality at centre half and central midfield. I think Sven had more to pick from, with a better balance to boot.

Them squads were made up of players who didn't get along and told by clubs to not get to friendly so there was probably better individual talent but these players play more like a team under Southgate so he's done well there but again we are living in a different time so who's to say another manager wouldn't get the same reaction.

[Col city fan]

3 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

This squad has some ridiculous attacking talent but glaring dearths of quality at centre half and central midfield. I think Sven had more to pick from, with a better balance to boot.

I agree. Maguire, Stones, Rice, Henderson..all bang average at top international level.

Sven had a more balanced set of players to choose, no doubt.

I guess that’s a good reason for NOT playing Southgate ball though. Possibly a more attacking style would have played more to the strengths Southgate has at his disposal?

And top marks for use of the term ‘to boot’.

[Corky]

Probably only on how the next man does (if he goes). Clear improvement but a massive sense of what if?

[HybridFox]

39 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Whichever your opinion is, one thing that is significant is the same as Rodgers. Brendan Rodgers tenure at Leicester needs to be judged in the context of him having probably the best team and the best resources now that the club has ever had. Yes he's finished higher up the table more than most of our previous managers but he's also had more to work with

Brendan has won trophies

[Muzzy_no7]

Stabilised England and restored pride however this is one of the strongest squads in world football. We can’t afford to play it safe anymore. This is truly a golden generation and I can’t help feeling that they’re being held back. 

[Dan LCFC]

It's basically been par all the way through it. England have lost virtually every game they were underdogs for and won virtually every game they were favourites for. This gets made out to be overachievement because his predecessors were by and large a disgrace.

[Lambert09]

I think it’s ridiculous to suggest he’s underperformed with the players we’ve got. Whilst we have a terrific set of front players (and right backs) the other back 4 options are pretty terrible and nobody knows how but he got them playing out of their skin and let’s be honest … it was southgate that got us that maguire money not puel. 

 

He built a team, not just 11 of the best players and that’s what you need. He’s not perfect and he obviously has a big club bias but who doesn’t and it’s debatable whether he even holds  that too heavily. he had no issues playing rice or even phillips when he was at leeds. He has favourites, but what manager doesn’t. I’d love to sit here and say how could he not play maddison… but it’s not like the other options aren’t elite players.  we will never know how much he may have been involved without that injury. 

 

overall, I do think the time is up, but he has done a great job and tournament football is just a beast like that. all he did wrong was not sit on the right horse shoe on game day imo 

 

He made some huge calls, ones he knew sofa fans would be against and more were right than wrong. Sterling saka, and phillips in the euros spring to mind. 

Edited 11 December 2022 by Lambert09

[Deeg67]

2 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

It's basically been par all the way through it. England have lost virtually every game they were underdogs for and won virtually every game they were favourites for. This gets made out to be overachievement because his predecessors were by and large a disgrace.

Not as wasteful and awful as Martinez, but close.  In the context that international managers are generally terrible and not good enough for a decent club job, perhaps Southgate isn't the worst of the bunch, but that's damning with faint praise.  He's woeful, and today showed it.

Edited 11 December 2022 by Deeg67

[Koke]

Martinez is definitely worse than Southgate, whilst Deschamps is being carried by the ridiculous level of elite talent he has. All 3 of these at club level wouldn't be anywhere near CL football, yet they're in charge of top international countries 

 

Imagine if England went out like Spain have in the last 3 tournaments. And Spain definitely have a superior midfield than England.

 

I'm on the fence with Southgate. He should have won the Euros but he also had some mediocre defenders to pick from, hence his obsession with 3 at the back. 

 

[RowlattsFox]

I don't think we've under achieved but definitely had missed opportunities. More so last year and 2018 then this one. 

 

Southgate has done a lot of good things but he isn't good enough to go to that next level. Whether any other manager could have, i guess we'll never know. 

 

 

[AKCJ]

Look at the England side he inherited and tell me that we were in position for a world cup semi, a euros final and a quarter final loss to the favourites.

 

He has over achieved. Hopefully he stays.

[dobbylcfc]

Imo I think the England team/squad has been a big bunch of bottlejobs since 96. When you look at the players we’ve had since then. How we haven’t won a tournament since 66 is criminal. 

[Livid]

Is a losing QF against an under strength France side acceptable to you because on paper with our squad  I think we should have beaten them comfortably. It comes down to Southgate. 
 

Two world cups where as soon as we came up against a side of any pedigree we can’t get over the line.  A home tournament where like  96 we made the most of our home advantage only to fall at the final hurdle. 
 

We play a dull pedestrian turgid style of football under him and with the players available it should be a lot better. He could have took a squad of 16 to the World Cup, he has no idea or the balls to mix it up. 
 

The only reason the FA picked him because they were short on options and he was the nice well spoken choice who wouldn’t rock the boat. So many in the media and country as a whole just seem to think he’s untouchable. 

[foxfanazer]

Just bang average. Never any surprises to his team selection and tactically weak. He's improved the togetherness of the squad but can't rate him as an actual coach

[Matt]

World Cup Semi Final, 4th place World Cup finish, Nations League 3rd place, Euro 2020 final, World Cup Quarter Final: England have overachieved.

 

If the cap fits....

 

Right? 

 

This is going to be my response to anyone who claims Leicester have overachieved and that we should be thankful to Brendan Rodgers.

 

 

His football is boring as fuck, but generally in this age, football is boring as fuck at the top level, it is what it is. 

 

Pedestrian.

 

You want entertainment? Somethings gotta give.

 

FWIW, I think we've probably been the most exciting and expansive we've ever been under Southgate during this tournament. Which I think is fair to say speaks volumes.

[when_you're_smiling]

Pretty amazed that people are hailing the squad as some kind of ‘golden generation’ all of a sudden.

 

None of last night’s back four are first choices for their club sides. Do people really think Maguire is the golden generation captain? Has that been mentioned anywhere else in the past 18 months?

 

Same with the likes of Stirling, Henderson, Grealish, Rice, Rashford. You look at this forum any other time in the past year and are people saying they’re the golden generation then?

 

I do think in this tournament the culture Southgate has built up around England in the last few years has led to a slight over performance from players, many of whom weren’t in form. They lacked a bit of luck at the crucial time yesterday.

 

Looking forward to the Premier League thread returning and seeing how many Golden Generation comments come when they’re back sitting on the bench and/or out of form again.

[spacemunky]

7.3

[Guest BlueBrett]

He has had unbelievably favourable fixtures at tournaments and failed to capitalise.

 

Fair enough we beat Germany and Croatia at Euros but we also limped past czech republic, drew with Scotland and needed extra time to get past the Danes. Then our performance in the final was dreadful. 

 

2018 we beat Tunisia and Panama and lost to Belgium in groups. Then we needed pens vs Columbia, beat Sweden and lost to Croatia.

 

This time round we beat Iran and Wales and drew with USA. Then we beat Senegal before going out to the French

 

For all the talk about him being our most successful manager in whatever time period I can't see anything remotely impressive about that record considering the players he's had at his disposal.

 

It's more than that though. His team selections and tactics drive me mad. The decisions he makes sometimes make me want to turn off the TV. Bringing on Raheem Sterling last night just the latest and far from the most egregious example in a long line.

 

Praying we can get rid of him now but I reckon they'll keep him on.

Edited 11 December 2022 by BlueBrett

[Trav Le Bleu]

I'd rate it as boring.

[Foxxed]

Best English players for a long while.

Easy tournament fixtures.

Often fails against the first decent team.

Dull football.

 

Nice waistcoat.

The gray bits in his beard gives a refined yet unkempt look.

We can remember the Germany win.

Losing personally then as a manager gives some nice continuity in a changing world.

There. I think that’s balanced.

 

 

Edited 11 December 2022 by Foxxed

[Foxdiamond]

20 hours ago, MattFox said:

The Croatia game will probably be shown at coaching courses for the next 30 years as an example of bad practice.

 

Possibly one of the worst examples of elite level in game management ever 

 

 

Talking of Croatia they appear to have a toughness and grit allied to skill that England lack at vital moments

[Unabomber]

Probably give it a 3