Stadium atmosphere

[rugbyblue]

28 minutes ago, lcfc278 said:

The stereotypical type of fan that would be willing to get in grounds an hour early or tear the roof off with constant chanting and backing the team have slowly been priced out and discouraged from attending games in England, in particular in the PL. For young lads from 14 up to 30 going to a game once a week costs an arm and a leg in the UK. Most other countries in Europe you can go to top league games for anywhere between 15 and 30 euros on average, just looking at our place the average game this season not including the family section, it’s between £45 - £55 a pop, it’s not possible in my opinion to get those kinds of crowds here anymore and that’s because the PL has been so sanitised and every club wants to be a business now. It’s clear why European teams can still have these cultures and atmospheres and we can’t. 

Nail.  Head.

[SemperEadem]

1 minute ago, niyaminski said:

Odd question to ask but do these European “ultras” (or whatever you want to call them - loud European fanbases) drink before a game?

 

Whats the football drinking culture like in the mainland? And does it potentially effe city the atmosphere?

Personal links to Bochum, Bayern and Valerenga. All have a skinful yeah.

[Lako42]

7 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

You're right in what you say about fans being priced out in this country.     But it's worth pointing something else out here ...

 

Even during the best days of British fans supporting, we never got in the ground an hour before kick-off.   We typically rolled in at 2.45pm from the pub, and only really started singing when the players came out.   You had to be a bit of a nerd to be in the ground an hour before KO!

 

We also never sang the whole match long.   It would be quiet for periods, then pick up at the right moments depending on the tempo of the game, goals scored or conceded, how important the match was, whether it was against local rivals, etc etc.   Which in my opinion is how it should be.   

 

(Only my opinion ... but this ultra-style constant aimless chanting all game long, no matter what is happening on the pitch, is frankly a bit robotic and boring.   ok, better than total silence, but no substitute for "proper" support.)

 

 

 

Kind of understand this line of thinking 

[Stadt]

2 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Correct. You look at the average Brit going on holiday to deathly boring places like France, a village in Italy, beach resorts in Spain. Eating bland meat and two veg dishes every night seasoned with salt and pepper. Drinking endless cups of mass-produced tea/coffee with loads of milk. Going shopping for off the rack formal clothing at M&S.

We are so different/boring compared to mainland Europe.

Lots of young Italian, French and Spaniards move here and would equally laud Britain (largely London tbh) as far more interesting than their towns and cities.

[purpleronnie]

1 hour ago, lcfc278 said:

The stereotypical type of fan that would be willing to get in grounds an hour early or tear the roof off with constant chanting and backing the team have slowly been priced out and discouraged from attending games in England, in particular in the PL. For young lads from 14 up to 30 going to a game once a week costs an arm and a leg in the UK. Most other countries in Europe you can go to top league games for anywhere between 15 and 30 euros on average, just looking at our place the average game this season not including the family section, it’s between £45 - £55 a pop, it’s not possible in my opinion to get those kinds of crowds here anymore and that’s because the PL has been so sanitised and every club wants to be a business now. It’s clear why European teams can still have these cultures and atmospheres and we can’t. 

Even if we had those things our atmosphere would pale in comparison.  Lower leagues can still pull large crowds that have decent priced tickets but have dead atmospheres.

 

There are so many reasons why English grounds are so quiet.  The fact we ripped up the terraces, lost a generation of fans post 92, OTT stewarding, ground regulations.  Etc etc... we all know them.

 

But we are as said before quite a boring populace, we are also very reserved compared to our european cousins, and amongst all the reasons already stated a big difference that doesn't get mentioned is the fact we are very individual in our support.  Most games abroad have large numbers of fans getting together before the game and marching as one to the ground.

 

English fans want to turn up have a beer with their mate(s) and then go home immediately afterwards, thats not the culture abroad.

 

To change the atmosphere within English stadiums you need many changes, one change won't do it.  But it will never ever happen.  The best we can hope for is grounds moving fans and giving an 'end' to like minded fans, this will improve things but only slightly and in some cases not at all.  But none of the other changes that need to be made will happen so that's all we have.

[Nolucklcfc]

In defence of English culture which has many many problems. I think there is something to be said for fans upping the noise in response to the actual game. If you are 2-0 down at home  but then get a goal back and the whole ground gets up, the opposition notice that (depending how loud the crowd is) which can destabilise a team. If you have the same constant noise for 90 minutes, do they notice that difference in Europe? Genuinely don’t know and there arent many grounds in england these days which are really decent so hard to judge. 

 

When we played Leeds at their place  and got beat 3-1, when they got the equaliser the whole ground upped the noise and that essentially won them the game. 
 

its an interesting conversation, the culture differences between European ultras and English football. A mix of both English and elements of the European style I think would work best. It’s never going to be ultras style on masses over here. 

[MS0204]

If you ask any of the psg ultras and fans who bounce around if they are enjoying themselves and the answer would be obvious.. sometimes it ain’t just a type of support. It’s enjoyment and having a good time.. 

 

Perhaps some people need to let loose a bit, try opening your mouth for a sing song, you never know, it might actually seem a better experience.. 

[SemperEadem]

6 minutes ago, Nolucklcfc said:

In defence of English culture which has many many problems. I think there is something to be said for fans upping the noise in response to the actual game. If you are 2-0 down at home  but then get a goal back and the whole ground gets up, the opposition notice that (depending how loud the crowd is) which can destabilise a team. If you have the same constant noise for 90 minutes, do they notice that difference in Europe? Genuinely don’t know and there arent many grounds in england these days which are really decent so hard to judge. 

 

When we played Leeds at their place  and got beat 3-1, when they got the equaliser the whole ground upped the noise and that essentially won them the game. 
 

its an interesting conversation, the culture differences between European ultras and English football. A mix of both English and elements of the European style I think would work best. It’s never going to be ultras style on masses over here. 

The line that its constant noise with no up or down is a misinformed one. It really doesn't just stay at one monotone level. 

[grobyfox1990]

46 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Lots of young Italian, French and Spaniards move here and would equally laud Britain (largely London tbh) as far more interesting than their towns and cities.

Absolutely agreed and I’ve worked with many examples of what you’ve mentioned. Our country is fantastic for entertainment and ambition, that’s why the world comes here to try and make their fortune. Remember working with an Italian maniac called Matteo at citi. For months he thought the British bores were teasing him by saying they’re taking annual leave to go to random towns in Italy in august. Still remember his face when he found out it was the truth 

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, niyaminski said:

Odd question to ask but do these European “ultras” (or whatever you want to call them - loud European fanbases) drink before a game?

 

Whats the football drinking culture like in the mainland? And does it potentially effe city the atmosphere?

I know an olympiakos ‘ultra’ - he came with me to the Liverpool home match and put a sticker up by the holiday inn. He said their usual is to drink and let off flares the night before the match. Then matchday it’s marches, flares, getting the banners/flags ready etc 

[bovril]

4 minutes ago, Nolucklcfc said:

In defence of English culture which has many many problems. I think there is something to be said for fans upping the noise in response to the actual game. If you are 2-0 down at home  but then get a goal back and the whole ground gets up, the opposition notice that (depending how loud the crowd is) which can destabilise a team. If you have the same constant noise for 90 minutes, do they notice that difference in Europe? Genuinely don’t know and there arent many grounds in england these days which are really decent so hard to judge. 

 

When we played Leeds at their place  and got beat 3-1, when they got the equaliser the whole ground upped the noise and that essentially won them the game. 
 

its an interesting conversation, the culture differences between European ultras and English football. A mix of both English and elements of the European style I think would work best. It’s never going to be ultras style on masses over here. 

Fair point. I don't think I've experienced a crowd turning a game or 'sucking a ball in' quite like I've seen in some English stadia (although my experience with European grounds is pretty much only in Italy, never been to Germany). In my experience atmospheres can be as flat there as they often are here.

 

We've lost a lot but perhaps people are exaggerating the problems with the culture here, I tend to lean towards what lcfc278 posted. 

[OnlyOneCity]

2 hours ago, worth_the_wait said:

You're right in what you say about fans being priced out in this country.     But it's worth pointing something else out here ...

 

Even during the best days of British fans supporting, we never got in the ground an hour before kick-off.   We typically rolled in at 2.45pm from the pub, and only really started singing when the players came out.   You had to be a bit of a nerd to be in the ground an hour before KO!

 

We also never sang the whole match long.   It would be quiet for periods, then pick up at the right moments depending on the tempo of the game, goals scored or conceded, how important the match was, whether it was against local rivals, etc etc.   Which in my opinion is how it should be.   

 

(Only my opinion ... but this ultra-style constant aimless chanting all game long, no matter what is happening on the pitch, is frankly a bit robotic and boring.   ok, better than total silence, but no substitute for "proper" support.)

 

 

 

Completely agree about constant singing being boring. The Man Utd fans singing the Amorim song to “ It’s  a heartache” is mind numbingly boring and moronic. Couldn’t turn them off at the KP but have had to turn the sound down a few times on the TV. Also find the incessant drumming awful and feel very sorry for those sitting nearby.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

6 minutes ago, OnlyOneCity said:

Completely agree about constant singing being boring. The Man Utd fans singing the Amorim song to “ It’s  a heartache” is mind numbingly boring and moronic. Couldn’t turn them off at the KP but have had to turn the sound down a few times on the TV. Also find the incessant drumming awful and feel very sorry for those sitting nearby.

I know. I can't even hear myself clap the boys off for only losing 4-0.

[OnlyOneCity]

16 minutes ago, Mike the Metal Ed said:

I know. I can't even hear myself clap the boys off for only losing 4-0.

A bit of a pathetic reply

[OadbyBlue]

2 hours ago, SemperEadem said:

The line that its constant noise with no up or down is a misinformed one. It really doesn't just stay at one monotone level. 

Agreed. Corners, chances, dribbles etc still get cheered on like in England. They also tend to be the parts that the rest of the stadium join in with, making these parts even louder. 

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, OnlyOneCity said:

Completely agree about constant singing being boring. The Man Utd fans singing the Amorim song to “ It’s  a heartache” is mind numbingly boring and moronic. Couldn’t turn them off at the KP but have had to turn the sound down a few times on the TV. Also find the incessant drumming awful and feel very sorry for those sitting nearby.

Those sitting nearby have a choice about where they sit.

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, Nolucklcfc said:

In defence of English culture which has many many problems. I think there is something to be said for fans upping the noise in response to the actual game. If you are 2-0 down at home  but then get a goal back and the whole ground gets up, the opposition notice that (depending how loud the crowd is) which can destabilise a team. If you have the same constant noise for 90 minutes, do they notice that difference in Europe? Genuinely don’t know and there arent many grounds in england these days which are really decent so hard to judge. 

 

When we played Leeds at their place  and got beat 3-1, when they got the equaliser the whole ground upped the noise and that essentially won them the game. 
 

its an interesting conversation, the culture differences between European ultras and English football. A mix of both English and elements of the European style I think would work best. It’s never going to be ultras style on masses over here. 

That’s working in Scotland right now. Attendances up. 

[OnlyOneCity]

8 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

Those sitting nearby have a choice about where they sit.

Apart from the fact that the incessant drumming can be heard in the middle of the Kop, why should that be a consideration when having a ST? The drum hasn’t been going for 22 years but people may have sat in those seats for that long. If someone moaned about sitting behind a post then that would be their choice if they stayed there for years, but a drum in a football ground shouldn’t be a fixture. Before I am accused of being a Happy Clapper, I join in with all the songs and chants and admire the fact that the Singing Section put so much in to this. 

[Stuntman_Mike]

It's interesting because it's quite clear in England we have some of the best fans in the world for loyalty, passion and numbers travelling. 

 

Like we're unbelievably invested in our teams right through the leagues, it's just the noise that isn't there. The PL is more like the MLS these days. In fact, it's probably worse. 

 

[grobyfox1990]

7 minutes ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

It's interesting because it's quite clear in England we have some of the best fans in the world for loyalty, passion and numbers travelling. 

 

Like we're unbelievably invested in our teams right through the leagues, it's just the noise that isn't there. The PL is more like the MLS these days. In fact, it's probably worse. 

 

Think that’s a stretch tbf. Granted I’ve only been to one MLS game and thar was pre covid. But I work with several yanks who have STs at various MLS clubs who praise the PL highly for atmosphere when attending games in the uk 

[OnlyOneCity]

5 minutes ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

It's interesting because it's quite clear in England we have some of the best fans in the world for loyalty, passion and numbers travelling. 

 

Like we're unbelievably invested in our teams right through the leagues, it's just the noise that isn't there. The PL is more like the MLS these days. In fact, it's probably worse. 

 

A lot of comment regarding the atmosphere at the Emirates being poor on Tuesday. Watching recent away fans from Europe at our grounds just emphasises the different fan cultures. They have always been loud when travelled in a large group, even the lesser known teams. For years they have also used flares, even when coming here. Remember all the smoke over the pitch when we played Red Star in the late 1990s. Don’t think we will ever have that type of support.

 

[Stuntman_Mike]

2 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Think that’s a stretch tbf. Granted I’ve only been to one MLS game and thar was pre covid. But I work with several yanks who have STs at various MLS clubs who praise the PL highly for atmosphere when attending games in the uk 

Might be a stretch at the moment, but it's not far off and only likely to get worse.

 

 

 

 

[worth_the_wait]

6 hours ago, OnlyOneCity said:

A lot of comment regarding the atmosphere at the Emirates being poor on Tuesday. Watching recent away fans from Europe at our grounds just emphasises the different fan cultures. They have always been loud when travelled in a large group, even the lesser known teams. For years they have also used flares, even when coming here. Remember all the smoke over the pitch when we played Red Star in the late 1990s. Don’t think we will ever have that type of support.

 

Just watched a video about the PSG fans at Arsenal.

 

I have to admit they were very loud, and their enthusiasm looked impressive.   But the more I watched, the more it looks a bit weird.

 

There'e the usual hundreds of them holding up mobile phones, filming themselves.   "Look at me"
There's loads of them in the grounds with shirts off.  "Look at my body".
Lots of crazy jump routines, something you might expect from a 90's rave.  "Look at my dance movements".
Some bloke(s) at the front directing operations, like they're on military exercises.   Ever tried watching the match?

 

As I say, it was loud, and impressive in its own way.  But there's something not quite right with it.
 

[purpleronnie]

17 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

Just watched a video about the PSG fans at Arsenal.

 

I have to admit they were very loud, and their enthusiasm looked impressive.   But the more I watched, the more it looks a bit weird.

 

There'e the usual hundreds of them holding up mobile phones, filming themselves.   "Look at me"
There's loads of them in the grounds with shirts off.  "Look at my body".
Lots of crazy jump routines, something you might expect from a 90's rave.  "Look at my dance movements".
Some bloke(s) at the front directing operations, like they're on military exercises.   Ever tried watching the match?

 

As I say, it was loud, and impressive in its own way.  But there's something not quite right with it.
 

Well thats the english reserve in you, in us all, we don't like the attention. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

47 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

Just watched a video about the PSG fans at Arsenal.

 

I have to admit they were very loud, and their enthusiasm looked impressive.   But the more I watched, the more it looks a bit weird.

 

There'e the usual hundreds of them holding up mobile phones, filming themselves.   "Look at me"
There's loads of them in the grounds with shirts off.  "Look at my body".
Lots of crazy jump routines, something you might expect from a 90's rave.  "Look at my dance movements".
Some bloke(s) at the front directing operations, like they're on military exercises.   Ever tried watching the match?

 

As I say, it was loud, and impressive in its own way.  But there's something not quite right with it.
 

All opinions isn't it. I'm sure the rest of the footballing world would look at our dead stadiums in England and say there's plenty not quite right about them too.