The Enzo Thread

[KFS]

Just now, Fox92 said:

I've come to the conclusion this is the default response you'll end up with. It's what I've had all morning.

 

There are different ways to play football. I think Liverpool show that under Klopp, they play good fast football but are direct with it.

You want us to be Liverpool… ok  

[Mickyblueeyes]

7 minutes ago, murphy said:

Could people in this thread please try to understand that the only alternative to Maresca's style is not necessarily Tony Pullis' land of giants long ball game? 

 

I think in your haste to patronise, many of you are forgetting that there are many different ways to play football.

 

Again, I am not advocating change I just wish that people would stop being lazy and condescending.

 

 

But we have done that this season. Won and played in different ways. 
 

Yesterday for 25 minutes we “launched” it from recognising that Swansea were playing a stupid high line. We didn’t take two very good chances as a result. Swansea sat back a bit there after. 
 

A few times we’ve played counter attack to devastating effect.
 

We’ve played many ways this season but, as the best team in the league, teams will sit back. We move the ball to create space more often than not. That has also worked, very well. We are learning to protect the ball. 
 

There is more to this style than just playing keep ball. And it’s only been 7 months.  Surely another 7 months (and better players) adds further styles to the play ? For such a young manager, he’s made mistakes - granted but it’s so exciting to see so many strings to the bow in our style - something the last manager was seriously lacking. 

[Fox92]

Just now, KFS said:

You want us to be Liverpool… ok  

Where did I say that?

 

Yet again, post taken out of context. Read it. I said there's many ways to play football, compare Man City to Liverpool, that was my point. I did not say I want us to be Liverpool.

Edited 31 January 2024 by Fox92

[Chelmofox]

1 minute ago, Fox92 said:

I am enjoying it.

 

I wish people would give their heads a wobble and realise the difference. 
 

I go home and away, I enjoy it 90% of the time, sometimes I don’t. Was I enjoying walking out of Hillsborough having conceded? No. Was I enjoying walking out of The Hawthorns having won? Yes.

 

I can be critical and enjoy it. I’ve done that with every manger we’ve ever had while I’ve supported the club. 

Sorry - i wasn't having a go at you (appreciate i replied to your post  ).

 

Last night was the game i enjoyed least all season. Of course its fine to be critical. Once we got the second goal we started passing quicker and with more intent, and before hand it was more laboured. I think nerves were starting to show if im honest.  

 

What annoys me is the 'this style is always going to get you in trouble' and 'if we do this we are going to get hammered next year', being used as tools to hammer Enzo. 

 

Even considering all of the benefits bestowed to him, the achievement so far is something that should be celebrated. He's hardly going all Mourinho on us. 

 

This entitlement from the fans though is a real concern. Regardless of our position, we have to get this over the line. Atmospheres like last night make that even harder for the players.

[kingkisnorbo]

It also brings into focus this weird thing some fans seem to have that they are entitled to be "entertained." If you want to be entertained, go to the cinema or theatre. I don't believe going the football is entertainment but going by the state of our home support, many have become convinced it is. 

[KFS]

4 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Where did I say that?

 

Yet again, post taken out of context. Read it. I said there's many ways to play football, compare Man City to Liverpool, that was my point. I did not say I want us to be Liverpool.

We will not play that way, so what’s your point?

[LCFCJohn]

Whilst a lot of what he says is true, it’s definitely a petulant response which is disappointing.

 

As others have said, he’s done a great job to amass so many points but the squad is too good for this league so the most impressive thing for me was turning round the mentality more so than the tactical side.

 

Ultimately if he thinks every single fan should think every single thing he does is wonderful all the time, he is just far too sensitive to be a football manager. 
 

For me, he just needs to get on with it and do what he’s doing but it doesn’t have to be as black and white as it’s shit or everything is so perfect there is nothing to improve on. Of course there are areas to improve on.

 

It seems he is universally liked by our fans as a person which is more than can be said for previous managers. Nobody wants him out, they just want him to address the areas we do need to improve.

 

Yes there are a minority of fans who will never get on board with the style but do they need to? It’s only like the minority of the ‘it’s fine’ crew who are still saying we are probably still in denial that we could get relegated last season! 

[Bozman]

1 minute ago, KFS said:

We will not play that way, so what’s your point?

The all seeing eye..

[Fox92]

3 minutes ago, KFS said:

We will not play that way, so what’s your point?

I'm always told if I don't like our footbll then I prefer long ball, which is wrong.

 

My point was that there are more ways to play football than just possession based like us, and long ball like Dyche.

 

There are in between and, for me, this is what Liverpool play like. As a neutral I prefer watching them to Man City.

Edited 31 January 2024 by Fox92

[KFS]

Just now, Fox92 said:

I'm always told if I don't like our footbll then I prefer long ball, which is wrong.

 

My point was that there are more ways to play football than just possession based like us, and long ball like Dyche.

Ok so your alternative is that you would like…? A Liverpool style of play?

[Fox92]

1 minute ago, KFS said:

Ok so your alternative is that you would like…? A Liverpool style of play?

At times I'd like us to be quicker. I think yesterday was a good example, last 30 mins of the first half, we went backwards a lot (which is okay) but it was all to slow.

[GingerrrFox]

19 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I think the most boring aspects of just how a lot of teams are playing now is that there are so few physical battles on the pitch. 1 team has possession, the other team watches them pass the ball. Then the other team has the ball and the opposition watch them pass it around.

 

Wolves v West Brom has 7 tackles in the first half. In what is supposed to be a ferocious derby,

 

The competitiveness of the game is being sucked out, tactics are getting more and more risk averse to the point where games are more and more becoming about who makes the fewest mistakes. 

 

 

Think that has more to do with refereeing than anything tbh. The days of aggressive challenges are long gone, Fatawu’s sending off at Cov is a perfect example of that, 10 years ago he’d have had a booking, 20 years ago it would have been a foul. Now it’s a sending off and a 3 match ban. The “blood and thunder” has been taken out of the game by the officials and the rules, not managers or tactics. 

[Guppys Love Child]

11 minutes ago, kingkisnorbo said:

It also brings into focus this weird thing some fans seem to have that they are entitled to be "entertained." If you want to be entertained, go to the cinema or theatre. I don't believe going the football is entertainment but going by the state of our home support, many have become convinced it is. 

Ok..so why do you hand over your cash and go? 

 

I'm intrigued 

[Fox92]

14 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Sorry - i wasn't having a go at you (appreciate i replied to your post  ).

 

Last night was the game i enjoyed least all season. Of course its fine to be critical. Once we got the second goal we started passing quicker and with more intent, and before hand it was more laboured. I think nerves were starting to show if im honest.  

 

What annoys me is the 'this style is always going to get you in trouble' and 'if we do this we are going to get hammered next year', being used as tools to hammer Enzo. 

 

Even considering all of the benefits bestowed to him, the achievement so far is something that should be celebrated. He's hardly going all Mourinho on us. 

 

This entitlement from the fans though is a real concern. Regardless of our position, we have to get this over the line. Atmospheres like last night make that even harder for the players.

See, I don't disagree with that and you've summed up what I was trying to get across - passing quicker with more intent and before hand it was more laboured - I'm not taking away the achievement of us being top (nor would I if we won the league) but he's got to understand sometimes it is slow and laboured and that's what frustrates the majority of people, like me. But because it frustrates me doesn't mean I want us to play long ball target man style, I don't, but that's all I'm hit with nowadays as soon as I criticise.

 

Some games I think we've been brilliant without even winning, Ipswich last week as an example. Sometimes we've won and it has been a hard watch, Watford at home as an example the first half was awful that game.

 

Overall we obviously do have to get over the line, we just need to get out of this league!

[filbertway]

3 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

Think that has more to do with refereeing than anything tbh. The days of aggressive challenges are long gone, Fatawu’s sending off at Cov is a perfect example of that, 10 years ago he’d have had a booking, 20 years ago it would have been a foul. Now it’s a sending off and a 3 match ban. The “blood and thunder” has been taken out of the game by the officials and the rules, not managers or tactics. 

I'm not even talking about aggressive tackles though. Just players challenging each other, it's all keeping shape and blocking off passing lanes. There are just generally very few  50 50 duels or loose balls that players are battling for. Risk averse passing, waiting for the other team to make a mistake. If you do lose the ball, then it's 11 men behind the ball quickly then we get to watch the other team pass the ball for a minute or two waiting for a player to lose their man. Even then, a lot of the time, the receiving player has nowhere to go and then just recycles the ball back to the defence.

[Claudio Fannieri]

I might be a bit of football purist as I really enjoy the style we play, in the main I find it innovative and entertaining, and it is delivering results on the pitch. Of course with every team there are bits and pieces you can critique but overall I am thoroughly impressed by what is happening at the club and what Enzo is achieving not only in terms of results but also the culture and mentality he is bringing with him. 
 

I get that it isn’t always full throttle football but be careful what you wish for as currently it is pleasing to watch, we are winning lots of games of football, scoring lots of goals and creating chances whilst conceding very little from open play…….not really sure what our “fans” have to complain about if I am being honest. 

[kingkisnorbo]

Just now, Guppys Love Child said:

Ok..so why do you hand over your cash and go? 

 

I'm intrigued 

I don't go with the expectation or belief that I will or should be entertained. I judge it largely by if we win or we lose, as I'm sure others do too. This idea that somebody's experience is diminished by the fact that they weren't entertained but we've won, we're top of the league by some margin, kicking teams up and down the league regularly etc I find fatuous and spoilt. There are obviously other external factors as to why I go but I'm talking specifically about the 90 minutes. Adding to that and it's probably another discussion, but the best teams in the world play this way and the teams who aren't don't. It's simple as that for me. We will continue to do it next season and I think it will be successful. 

[Guppys Love Child]

2 minutes ago, kingkisnorbo said:

I don't go with the expectation or belief that I will or should be entertained. I judge it largely by if we win or we lose, as I'm sure others do too. This idea that somebody's experience is diminished by the fact that they weren't entertained but we've won, we're top of the league by some margin, kicking teams up and down the league regularly etc I find fatuous and spoilt. There are obviously other external factors as to why I go but I'm talking specifically about the 90 minutes. Adding to that and it's probably another discussion, but the best teams in the world play this way and the teams who aren't don't. It's simple as that for me. We will continue to do it next season and I think it will be successful. 

Cheers for the explanation 

[80footgiraffe]

I think this is a case of hindsight. We’ll look back next season and realise how strong and impressive this season has been so far. If we lost every game left this season we can still point to an incredible effort from the players and staff. Enzo has every right to be frustrated and some people need to be brought into the 21st century tactically. Think there would be moaners even if we had a 100% record at this stage. Please try and enjoy this, we’re f**king brilliant at the moment.

[Chelmofox]

I feel a lot of people would be happier if we were in 4th place and chasing it, rather than being top and seeing it out. In all walks of sport, chasing things down is more fun and gets the adrenaline running. 

[The Doctor]

Tbh, if you don't like this style of play then it's time to **** off and support a different club, because it's not changing. You weirdos hound Enzo out because it's not blood and thunder stop the boats ball, you'll get another Puel.

 

It's been 7 years since we sacked Ranieri 6 and half since Shakespeare, in that time we've gone from Puel to Rodgers to Enzo, and while each have executed it to varying degrees of success, they've been managers who've believed in possession football and death by a thousand passes. This is clearly what the higher ups at the club believe in and will make it the "Leicester way". Life as primarily a counter attacking side isn't coming back and you need to accept that or stop coming to games 

[Trev3939]

55 minutes ago, Bozman said:

I don't dislike him, Just don't like the boring brand of football we play, if you are happy to pay 36 quid to watch 70 mins of the defenders pissing about with it at the back then good on ya, but when I go to watch a game I liked to be entertained.. And looking at all the empty seats last night I'd say I'm not alone but that's just my opinion maybe I'm wrong,  If we try to play the same way if promoted  we will be next seasons Sheff Utd..

the way we play is the way modern football is going- entertainment is not the priority of managers- they want to win. This is the best way to do that in the modern game. I am not disputing the fact that with the way we play there is a chance we go down again, but 'entertaining' football is no longer a thing for teams that will win trophies and be successful, the game has evolved too far

Edited 31 January 2024 by Trev3939

[Claudio Fannieri]

Just one other important point to add, we are still only 7 or so months into this project and therefore very much a work in progress, I fully expect next season after another full pre season with Enzo and his coaching staff to be at another level to where we sit now. If and this is a very big if we can be paitent and supportive on this journey, then the end product could be something very very exciting. This is just the begininng of the journey and the initial foundations are delivering excellent results very early on in the process. It isn’t perfect and I am pretty sure we are still only 50% of where Enzo wants us to be. 

Edited 31 January 2024 by Claudio Fannieri

[5waller5]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

I am not negative. This is what annoys me.

 

It is okay to be critical sometimes, regardless, but even with my post I was not being critical. I was questioning how OP thinks Enzo is going to be a “top European manager”.

 

But let’s be honest, after relegation, we’d have loved anybody to have us top of the league. But his “I will leave” persona he throws about doesn’t sit well with me, that’s all.

Maybe I just haven’t seen the “I will leave” persona and that’s why I don’t have anything but positive sentiment towards him.

 

Why has he given you this impression??

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, Bozman said:

I don't dislike him, Just don't like the boring brand of football we play, if you are happy to pay 36 quid to watch 70 mins of the defenders pissing about with it at the back then good on ya, but when I go to watch a game I liked to be entertained.. And looking at all the empty seats last night I'd say I'm not alone but that's just my opinion maybe I'm wrong,  If we try to play the same way if promoted  we will be next seasons Sheff Utd..

Hilarious. So, if we were playing rip roaring end to end stuff, but not top of the table, do you think last night (cold Tuesday January night) would have been a full house. What about all those games on a Saturday that are largely sellouts - do they not count?

 

Do Sheff Utd play the Enzo style?

 

Everyone needs to understand that if we get this over the line, next year is going to be a slog no matter what style we play. A hard slog. Are our fans up for the battle like Luton fans seem to be? I doubt it,  - we will just be hearing lots of 'told you so'.

Edited 31 January 2024 by Chelmofox