Why do people feel sorry for Levein?

[BartonFox]

It's not about 'feeling sorry' for CL it's about having a bit of knowledge, understanding that this was always going to be a transitional year, knowing that the team were going to be inconsistent this season, realising that league position isn't necessarily an accurate measure of progress and understanding that we should prhaps leave any kind of judgement on CL until the end of the season at the very least.

It's also about going to the matches and seeing the progress on pitch from one week to the other, seeing how things are slowly but surely heading in the right direction. Above all, it's about having a bit of patience and having a true understanding of where we've come from and what can realistically be achieved in the time that's been given so far.

Merry Xmas.

Page 2 of this thread is one of the most sensible I have read on here in a long while.

[Strokes]

Why do I stick up for Levein?

From a purely personal reason I stick up for him because I actually like what he is doing here. I might be deluded and I might have a completely different opinion to the majority of Leicester fans but I enjoy watching younger footballers who potentially can get better as time goes on, instead of old journeymen who have come to Leicester in the past with their best years behind them. I don't like the fact that for 3 or 4 years i've not managed to build any sort of rapport with the majority of players as they were only signe don one year deals and either binned before their contract expired or binned at the end of it.

Where we are in the league is nothing short of disgusting, but there was no way this club could continue the way it was being run and atleast Levein has come in with new ideas and tried to change it. He's done alot of good things at this club what with bringing in younger players, giving the youngsters from our academy a chance and actually turned some of our players in to sellable assets which is vital for a club like ours.

It might come down to it that Levein isn't good enough to take us in to the premiership, but it might well be that if we ever do get back in to the premiership under the guidance of a certain manager it might well be down to the foundations that Levein set.

As far as i'm concerned this club isn't good enough or ready to challenge for premiership football for a few years. The club as a whole is skint and unless we seek short term success there is no way this club can compete with the bigger clubs in this country without throwing money at it that we haven't got. The parachute payments are running out and the club needs to make sure it's stable. The players Levein has signed compared to the sort of players Adams signed has given us more stability as not only are they on lower wages they also hold some value and 'want factor' from other clubs. We need to have a policy where this club has a good eye on youngsters so that we get a reputation for producing the best youngsters in the division and that will aid us in our passage back to the premiership over a period of time.

I don't see any other way possible for a club like ours to get back in to the premiership and stay there, short term signings haven't worked for this club and has wasted valuable time and money at this club when we perhaps had a chance to strike while the iron was hot at the start of last season. Whoever manages this club will need to follow a similar plan to Levein's otherwise the club will be in an even worse state than it is. I would rather finish 14th with the current set of players than 8th with a bunch of over the hill ex-premiership stars on one year contracts. What exactly would it achieve?

Obviously if Levein doesn't improve the results and league position over a period of time then his position should be looked at but as far as i'm concerned I don't see any point in getting rid of him now or within the near future. Another manager, another set of players and another game plan would be verging on devestation if got wrong next time. We need to let Levein continue his work in my opinion.

Quality post

[Solihullfox]

Hat's off to Ric Flair for a quality post.

The club will come good in time and all the right foundations are being put in place by CL.

Instant success is a very rare occurence in any walk of life. Patience is the most important virtue for all LCFC fans whilst the real graft involved in rebuilding the whole club is put in by all concerned, including the supporters (supporters being the operative word).

Just for once I wish we could all get behind the team, squad and the management and all remember that the only place that success comes before work is in the dictionary.

[Manwell Pablo]

Why do I stick up for Levein?

From a purely personal reason I stick up for him because I actually like what he is doing here. I might be deluded and I might have a completely different opinion to the majority of Leicester fans but I enjoy watching younger footballers who potentially can get better as time goes on, instead of old journeymen who have come to Leicester in the past with their best years behind them. I don't like the fact that for 3 or 4 years i've not managed to build any sort of rapport with the majority of players as they were only signe don one year deals and either binned before their contract expired or binned at the end of it.

Where we are in the league is nothing short of disgusting, but there was no way this club could continue the way it was being run and atleast Levein has come in with new ideas and tried to change it. He's done alot of good things at this club what with bringing in younger players, giving the youngsters from our academy a chance and actually turned some of our players in to sellable assets which is vital for a club like ours.

It might come down to it that Levein isn't good enough to take us in to the premiership, but it might well be that if we ever do get back in to the premiership under the guidance of a certain manager it might well be down to the foundations that Levein set.

As far as i'm concerned this club isn't good enough or ready to challenge for premiership football for a few years. The club as a whole is skint and unless we seek short term success there is no way this club can compete with the bigger clubs in this country without throwing money at it that we haven't got. The parachute payments are running out and the club needs to make sure it's stable. The players Levein has signed compared to the sort of players Adams signed has given us more stability as not only are they on lower wages they also hold some value and 'want factor' from other clubs. We need to have a policy where this club has a good eye on youngsters so that we get a reputation for producing the best youngsters in the division and that will aid us in our passage back to the premiership over a period of time.

I don't see any other way possible for a club like ours to get back in to the premiership and stay there, short term signings haven't worked for this club and has wasted valuable time and money at this club when we perhaps had a chance to strike while the iron was hot at the start of last season. Whoever manages this club will need to follow a similar plan to Levein's otherwise the club will be in an even worse state than it is. I would rather finish 14th with the current set of players than 8th with a bunch of over the hill ex-premiership stars on one year contracts. What exactly would it achieve?

Obviously if Levein doesn't improve the results and league position over a period of time then his position should be looked at but as far as i'm concerned I don't see any point in getting rid of him now or within the near future. Another manager, another set of players and another game plan would be verging on devestation if got wrong next time. We need to let Levein continue his work in my opinion.

agreed, sort of.

However when is enough going to be enough? He does need to start getting some reasults in the short term, certainly needs to finish higher then 15th this season, and I'm hoping that next season we at least threaten the play offs.

Im starting to think this younger side that going to take the world by storm thing is slightly mythical though. We have no upcoming goalkeeper, Maybury is 28 De Vries is 30, Sylla is 28, Smith isn't even our player. Joey 25, Kisnorbo is 24 and Ruuuubbbisshhh. Gerrbrand and Mcarthy are young but that is one postion in our team I wouldnt mind seeing a older head, someone to help Gerrbrand and Mcarthy Develop & Help Paddy cut out his mistakes..... do we even have a left back, he refuses to play Sheehan... I really dont know if Weso is going to get the oppurtunites he needs.

Are players like Hammond, Kisnorbo and Johanson going to improve that much seeing as their all mid 20's?

The average age is down fair enough, and I would rather watch them then Mickys OAP army. but are we going to be anywhere in 5 years or watching a bunch of old Washed up Championship players finish bottom?

would like to add im not saying this is going to happen it's just what could possible happen if Levein doesn't do his job properly in the long term.

Younger sides are all well and good but theres little point in having them if certain players aren't given a chance, and certain players aren't good enough. Young sides are not nessaceirly good, nor will they nessacerily turn good.

come October next year I think we will have a better indication of what the future holds.

Until then I think it's only fair he keeps his job.

[Ric Flair]

agreed, sort of.

However when is enough going to be enough? He does need to start getting some reasults in the short term, certainly needs to finish higher then 15th this season, and I'm hoping that next season we at least threaten the play offs.

Im starting to think this younger side that going to take the world by storm thing is slightly mythical though. We have no upcoming goalkeeper, Maybury is 28 De Vries is 30, Sylla is 28, Smith isn't even our player. Joey 25, Kisnorbo is 24 and Ruuuubbbisshhh. Gerrbrand and Mcarthy are young but that is one postion in our team I wouldnt mind seeing a older head, someone to help Gerrbrand and Mcarthy Develop & Help Paddy cut out his mistakes..... do we even have a left back, he refuses to play Sheehan... I really dont know if Weso is going to get the oppurtunites he needs.

Are players like Hammond, Kisnorbo and Johanson going to improve that much seeing as their all mid 20's?

The average age is down fair enough, and I would rather watch them then Mickys OAP army. but are we going to be anywhere in 5 years or watching a bunch of old Washed up Championship players finish bottom?

would like to add im not saying this is going to happen it's just what could possible happen if Levein doesn't do his job properly in the long term.

Younger sides are all well and good but theres little point in having them if certain players aren't given a chance, and certain players aren't good enough. Young sides are not nessaceirly good, nor will they nessacerily turn good.

come October next year I think we will have a better indication of what the future holds.

Until then I think it's only fair he keeps his job.

Your absolutely right in what you say, there are some players that won't be good enough irrespective of age but all managers buy players that don't fit the bill and you'd hope they would be replaced once found not good enough.

If you look through our team i'd say we have a spine of players that are good enough to play at a higher level than mid table in the championship they are:

Alan Maybury

Nissa

Patrick Gerrbrand

Paddy McCarthy

Joey Gudjonsson

Ryan Smith

Stephen Hughes

Iain Hume

Paul Henderson

You then have some youngsters coming through who given the right development should join the above list and they are:

Richard Stearman (probably should already join that list)

James Wesolowski (will top that list within a year)

Alan Sheehan

Ashley Chambers

Then there are the fringe players that are either not good enough or not showing their true potential and they would include:

Elvis

Patrick Kisnorbo

Gareth Williams

Joe Hamill

Momo Sylla

Then you have a batch of players that blatantly aren't good enough and age won't change that:

Dion Dublin

Danny Tiatto

Jason Wilcox

Rab Douglas

Possibly Mark de Vries

It's down to the manager to decide who fits in to these sort of categories and replace the ones that fall in to any of the last 2 given the chance.

But as I say I still think we have around 10 players that are as good as anyone in this league especially in defence.

[SilverFox]

Well Shar up moaning then We've had some hard games past few weeks, im happy just not to be in the relegation zone.

He has some games coming up which have to get at least a 7 point return ( Crewe, Milwall , Norwich all at home ) im willing to see how he does.

Don't forget that Millwall and Crewe will fight for their lives. They won't be push overs, and equally they will be looking at our position in the table and seeing 3 points. It isn't an open and shut case, we will HAVE to be better on the day.

You can't tell me that Millwall, who are three points from safety, are going to roll over. No way mate.

[TAFKA Castroneves]

Whatever happens I want to see Levein here next season, well as long as we don't go down obviously. I'm intrigued to see if his magical third season will happen here.

[Manwell Pablo]

Don't forget that Millwall and Crewe will fight for their lives. They won't be push overs, and equally they will be looking at our position in the table and seeing 3 points. It isn't an open and shut case, we will HAVE to be better on the day.

You can't tell me that Millwall, who are three points from safety, are going to roll over. No way mate.

I never said they would, simple stated Levien should be looking at 7 points from those three games. We have better players then Milwall and Crewe and are playing better football then Norwhich. With all three playing at the Walkers and Leicester needing wins quite badly now I think Levein should be getting 7 points from those games to get us back on track and get the "Levein out" crewe off his back.

I don't expect any team to roll over, im not expecting us to beat Millwall 6-0 I would even by happy with a point as long as we beat Crewe and Norwhich. This of course may not happen, just because thats what I feel is exceptible from Leicester City doesn't mean they wont go out and disspointment me. However I said I was willing to see how Levein does, and that is what I'll do

On another note has nobody managed to convince Ben Filbert to come back yet? I want to ask him if he thinks we will still be 10th come the new year.

[Dr The Singh]

It's been abit of a rollercoaster of emotions for me, one minute city or great and for an hour city are terrible, one minute I luv CL the next I want him put in assylum home!!!

Overall I agree with the majority, I can see hat CL is trying to do, but it is taking alot longer then what we would like. I still have my doubts CL, that's because he has made some attrocious decisions and is still learning his trade!!!

The board have obviously given him untill end of next season, I think we will have to live with that, cus I can't see us getting relagated and I can't see us getting promoted!!

[Sly]

Hearts fans warned all along Levein might take time to put a winning team together.

He has the additional snag in England that he cannot achieve that with his naturally defensive strategy and has taken time to turn his attention to his attacking needs.

I said from day one he was a novice in English football and, my life, he's made some questionable purchases .

But so have people like Sir Alex Ferguson.

Bottom line though is that Leicester are in a far sounder situation. I posted a question in the summer about how much our first squad was worth and the replies came back across the range of £2.5-£3.5 million.

It looks like we'll have netted £3m from Connolly and the figures being bandied about for January (optimistic though they are) suggest another two/three players might gross up to £3m, more if Gerrbrand goes if we're not promoted.

The value of our squad is a vital factor and Levein has just about maximised ours so far with his sales and offloads. It seems to be a strength of his.

We also have a far more attractive side now and a manager who seems broadly committed to that way of playing.

That we haven't had the results is partly due to confidence, partly concentration, and partly because we still have two or three obvious and particular weaknesses in the team which there is every sign the manager will be addressing shortly.

If I "feel sorry" for Levein or "sympathy" as I would rather put it, then it's because had we taken six more points we'd be comfortably placed to challenge for a topsix spot and those points could easily have been in the bag.

Levein does not seem to be the greatest tactician or motivator but he does appear willing to learn and because of that I have faith in the outcome eventually. I have far, far more faith in him than in the last manager mainly because of his commitment to youth.

This will pay dividends in time.

Once again Tharican, you've sumed up my opinion on this.

I personally think he's done a decent job, considering Leicester the state Micky Admas left the club in.

Things have improved under Levein. Okay so the table doesn't show that, but it'll improve.

How many of Micky's squad would play in Levein's today?

[l444ry]

That's all very well, but that much maligned Micky Adams team never sunk to such a dismal league position as we find ourselves in now. Furthermore, that much maligned Micky Adams team WOULD have beaten this side hands down. His long ball style would force our defence to concede heaven knows how many goals. That much maligned Micky Adams team beat most of the teams we lose to now.....

[Thracian]

That's all very well, but that much maligned Micky Adams team never sunk to such a dismal league position as we find ourselves in now. Furthermore, that much maligned Micky Adams team WOULD have beaten this side hands down. His long ball style would force our defence to concede heaven knows how many goals. That much maligned Micky Adams team beat most of the teams we lose to now.....

Most of that is pure speculation. I never felt confident of any MA team beating anyone, even when we were 2-0 up with 10 minutes to go.

[l444ry]

Most of that is pure speculation. I never felt confident of any MA team beating anyone, even when we were 2-0 up with 10 minutes to go.

Of course it's speculation!!! 90% of what is on this site is speculation with another 9% opinion. I wasn't totally convinced by Micky either but, despite all his faults, he never took Leicester as low in the league as we are now....and that's the last 1%....which is FACT.

[Jimmy]

so where's the other 5%

[The People's Hero]

90% + 1% + 9% is 100%...

[Anish]

90% + 1% + 9% is 100%...

l444ry edited his post since napalm made that comment. Originally l444ry said 90% + 4% + 1%

[The People's Hero]

Oh right.

In that case, I apologise for stating the bleedin' obvious!

[Ultra]

I am a little perturbed by the way in which too many folks on here appear eager to let CL off the hook.

For a club of our size and support to be approaching Christmas in the bottom six of a league as mediocre as this one demonstrates ineptitude on a monumental scale. We have beaten all of the current top five in this league during 2005, so there is clearly a fair amount of ability in our squad, but it hasn't been seen on a regular or consistent basis. The management has to take responsibility for that.

Yes, we recognise that CL has had a fair amount of rebuilding to do, but he's hardly alone in that, is he? Watford and Cardiff both went through similar upheavals in the summer, yet have managed to produce far better results than we've done.

Those calling on fans to show a little more patience ignore the fact that in this day and age players will show ambition even if others do not, and will seek to ply their trade at the highest level. If Premiership clubs make bids for our players, say Joey or McCarthy, they are unlikely to be knocked back, even if this causes severe damage to the development of a squad capable of mounting a serious promotion bid. We need only look northwards to our friends by the Trent to see where the consequences of that strategy might take us.

For every good performance witnessed at the Way under Levein (eg the Sheff U game), there have been at least three bad ones (Rotherham, Forest and Burnley spring to mind). Is it any wonder so many remain sceptical? And the away record is even more dismal - a record of just TWO league wins in fourteen months. Even Micky Adams, during his final dire weeks at the helm, managed more than that!

Saturday's game against Crewe will be an important test. The visitors will be fired up by the presence of a crowd many times bigger than what they're used to, and may raise their game accordingly. However, if we show the required application and commitment, the extra quality in our side should see us win comfortably. Any other scenario, and I doubt that the crowd will be in a forgiving mood.

Let's hope the FOXES can show the inspiration that has too often been lacking in recent months. A run of wins would be the best way of dispelling doubts about the management.

[Anish]

Excellent post Ultra

[Gené and Tonic]

I think people appear willing to let him off the hook because he is starting to make the right decisions.

We've played well the past 3 games, scored goals, but only got one result, but Levein has said that, and now he's working on trying to sure up the defence again (hopefully he's still working on attack as well!)

He's put Sheehan in the team, which many fans have called for (we'll now see whether we were right), he's dropped Dublin out of the defence for Crewe, which is another good move.

Levein is also promoting youth, something which fans haven't been too familier with over the years gone by, and we're grateful.

Hopefully now, he's is beggining to realise what he has to do to start consistently winning in this league.

[Ric Flair]

I am a little perturbed by the way in which too many folks on here appear eager to let CL off the hook.

For a club of our size and support to be approaching Christmas in the bottom six of a league as mediocre as this one demonstrates ineptitude on a monumental scale. We have beaten all of the current top five in this league during 2005, so there is clearly a fair amount of ability in our squad, but it hasn't been seen on a regular or consistent basis. The management has to take responsibility for that.

Yes, we recognise that CL has had a fair amount of rebuilding to do, but he's hardly alone in that, is he? Watford and Cardiff both went through similar upheavals in the summer, yet have managed to produce far better results than we've done.

Those calling on fans to show a little more patience ignore the fact that in this day and age players will show ambition even if others do not, and will seek to ply their trade at the highest level. If Premiership clubs make bids for our players, say Joey or McCarthy, they are unlikely to be knocked back, even if this causes severe damage to the development of a squad capable of mounting a serious promotion bid. We need only look northwards to our friends by the Trent to see where the consequences of that strategy might take us.

For every good performance witnessed at the Way under Levein (eg the Sheff U game), there have been at least three bad ones (Rotherham, Forest and Burnley spring to mind). Is it any wonder so many remain sceptical? And the away record is even more dismal - a record of just TWO league wins in fourteen months. Even Micky Adams, during his final dire weeks at the helm, managed more than that!

Saturday's game against Crewe will be an important test. The visitors will be fired up by the presence of a crowd many times bigger than what they're used to, and may raise their game accordingly. However, if we show the required application and commitment, the extra quality in our side should see us win comfortably. Any other scenario, and I doubt that the crowd will be in a forgiving mood.

Let's hope the FOXES can show the inspiration that has too often been lacking in recent months. A run of wins would be the best way of dispelling doubts about the management.

It is a good post and what you say is right, but on the flip side of that if we don't give Levein more time to continue his game plan and we get another manager in who wants to completely change things yet again with a new system, a whole new bunch of players, etc it could be devastating. The parachute payments are running out so we haven't got alot of money to throw at new managers so we must back Levein who atleast has a long term plan.

Aslong as Levein is buying the right sort of players and good enough players then club will be stronger long term. It's all about improvement and if come the end of the season we haven't improved on last seasons league position then i'll start to accept that Levein's plan isn't going to work but even so without any money I doubt anybody could instantly turn it around at this club.

[BartonFox]

I am a little perturbed by the way in which too many folks on here appear eager to let CL off the hook.

For a club of our size and support to be approaching Christmas in the bottom six of a league as mediocre as this one demonstrates ineptitude on a monumental scale. We have beaten all of the current top five in this league during 2005, so there is clearly a fair amount of ability in our squad, but it hasn't been seen on a regular or consistent basis. The management has to take responsibility for that.

Yes, we recognise that CL has had a fair amount of rebuilding to do, but he's hardly alone in that, is he? Watford and Cardiff both went through similar upheavals in the summer, yet have managed to produce far better results than we've done.

Those calling on fans to show a little more patience ignore the fact that in this day and age players will show ambition even if others do not, and will seek to ply their trade at the highest level. If Premiership clubs make bids for our players, say Joey or McCarthy, they are unlikely to be knocked back, even if this causes severe damage to the development of a squad capable of mounting a serious promotion bid. We need only look northwards to our friends by the Trent to see where the consequences of that strategy might take us.

For every good performance witnessed at the Way under Levein (eg the Sheff U game), there have been at least three bad ones (Rotherham, Forest and Burnley spring to mind). Is it any wonder so many remain sceptical? And the away record is even more dismal - a record of just TWO league wins in fourteen months. Even Micky Adams, during his final dire weeks at the helm, managed more than that!

Saturday's game against Crewe will be an important test. The visitors will be fired up by the presence of a crowd many times bigger than what they're used to, and may raise their game accordingly. However, if we show the required application and commitment, the extra quality in our side should see us win comfortably. Any other scenario, and I doubt that the crowd will be in a forgiving mood.

Let's hope the FOXES can show the inspiration that has too often been lacking in recent months. A run of wins would be the best way of dispelling doubts about the management.

The highlighted bit is the problem, too many people seem to think we have a devine right to be a Premiership Club or sitting atop this league.

Well folks we are where we are because of chronic mismanagemnt over the last 5 years on and off the field, in fact off the field we are still a joke but no one seems to care about that. Much easier to blame the manager who stuck his neck on the line to come here and sort out the mess and said it was a 3 year process. Nothing has happened to suggest that he was wrong in that, but we are impaitent and demand success yesterday <_<

[Ric Flair]

The highlighted bit is the problem, too many people seem to think we have a devine right to be a Premiership Club or sitting atop this league.

Well folks we are where we are because of chronic mismanagemnt over the last 5 years on and off the field, in fact off the field we are still a joke but no one seems to care about that. Much easier to blame the manager who stuck his neck on the line to come here and sort out the mess and said it was a 3 year process. Nothing has happened to suggest that he was wrong in that, but we are impaitent and demand success yesterday <_<

Bang on!

[l444ry]

Bang on!

We may not have a divine right to be top of anything Barton, but we don't have a divine right to be a bottom six club either. I have followed City for 45 years and I'm telling you that this is the most pathetic state the club has ever been in.

At best this club SHOULD be in the Premiership or, at worst, competing for Promotion into it. Not to think this is defeatist and shows a distinct lack of ambition as to what this club can achieve. Some supporters may be happy to be playing second fiddle to teams like Hull, Cardiff, Burnley or Luton....but some of us are not. And it's not a good enough excuse to keep saying that the manager has a three year plan. Every negative manager on the planet uses that one when in trouble. Peter Taylor and David Pleat spring to mind. I once remember Pleat, after yet another defeat, complaining that the grass was too long for our passing game...... Those type of managers would have been here until doomsday and never come up with the goods.

You are either a good manager or you are not. We were taken to heights we could never have imagined on a shoestring by Martin O'Neill. He never whinged about 3 year plans or injuries. He also did it with some of the most geriatric players in England.... So much for this obsession with youth. He got on with the job in a positive fashion.

City fans everywhere should get up off their knees, stop making excuses and stop accepting this drivel before it's too late. If you accept mediocrity then mediocre you will become.......

[The People's Hero]

Excellent post Ultra

Agreed - fantastic post Ultra.

We SHOULD be doing better.