General News

[Trav Le Bleu]

4 hours ago, MPH said:

please don’t take this next comment as defending what they are doing.

 

what they are doing is no different to What Americans did in Afghanistan, Russians are doing in Ukraine and I imagine many other modern day wars.  when Hamas and Hezbollah soldiers engage in warfare and then retreat back into civilian  areas, or possibly fire those rockets from civilian  areas, then they have to shoulder some of the blame for the civilian casualties.

Undoubtedly.

 

No one comes out of this clean.

[st albans fox]

48 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

and I am openly anti-zionist. 

Zionism was originally defined as supporting the existence of a Jewish state. The word has been hijacked over the past few years, especially the past twelve months. 

 

 

 

Edited 3 October 2024 by st albans fox

[SecretPro]

12 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Zionism was originally defined as supporting the existence of a Jewish state. The word has been hijacked over the past few years, especially the past twelve months. 

 

 

 

As has Anti-semitism. In a big, big way.

 

And for what it's worth, even if we stick to the original definition, I do not support the existence of a Jewish state if it involves the suppression, illegal occupation, control and imprisonment of an entire population for 70+ years to achieve it. 

 

When Russia took Crimea, the world got angry, when Russia invaded Ukraine, the Western World sprang into action. Netanyahu cripples Palestine, kills tens of thousands of civilians, uses drones to assassinate people in multiple Countries, Invades Lebanon, threatens the entire Middle East, Ignores the US, ignores the UN, ignores the Courts, commits war crimes and apparently its not even 'provocation'. Netanyahu is similar to Putin in so many ways.

 

I wonder what the perceived difference between the conflicts really is? It's not that hard to work out.

Edited 3 October 2024 by SecretPro

[Lionator]

4 hours ago, MPH said:

please don’t take this next comment as defending what they are doing.

 

what they are doing is no different to What Americans did in Afghanistan, Russians are doing in Ukraine and I imagine many other modern day wars.  when Hamas and Hezbollah soldiers engage in warfare and then retreat back into civilian  areas, or possibly fire those rockets from civilian  areas, then they have to shoulder some of the blame for the civilian casualties.

I was listening to a podcast about Vietnam the other day, and I never realised just how many innocent civilians were killed by the Americans. They dropped 8 million tonnes of bombs on North Vietnam, blitzing towns and cities with relays and relays of B-52’s. 

[Foxdiamond]

4 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I was listening to a podcast about Vietnam the other day, and I never realised just how many innocent civilians were killed by the Americans. They dropped 8 million tonnes of bombs on North Vietnam, blitzing towns and cities with relays and relays of B-52’s. 

Thank goodness Harold Wilson resisted pressure to directly involve British forces in that particular madness

[Lionator]

46 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Undoubtedly.

 

No one comes out of this clean.

I have found that the moment I’ve taken a side in this, is the moment I need to take a step back. There are no good or bad in geopolitics, usually just psychopathic scheming to achieve goals. I suppose in recent history there have been a combination of terrible decisions that history should in particular focus on.

 

- Trump pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal. This was by far the stupidest of the lot. All of this could’ve been avoided imo, especially with the thawing of Iranian-Saudi relations.

- October 7th, nothing more to say. An appalling slaughter of innocent civilians.

- The destruction of Gaza, again just pure emotive evil. I get the anger and pain of October 7th but acting on raw emotion is perilously stupid.

- Biden being pathetic and the horrendously incapable Blinken not being able to strike a deal and giving Israel free rein to do whatever.

- Hezbollah firing into Northern Israel. Again responding with raw emotion at the treatment of Palestinians was not the correct decision.

 

There are many others. There are bad actors in every side of this conflict. There are no good guys, the only people I’ve seen approach it with any sanity are the Jordanian’s and that probably explains why that’s the most stable country in the area. 

Edited 3 October 2024 by Lionator

[Lionator]

Just now, Foxdiamond said:

Thank goodness Harold Wilson resisted pressure to directly involve British forces in that particular madness

Yup, 58,000 American soldiers killed, up to 4 million Vietnamese, and for what? 
 

A British foreign policy success staying out. Like France and Germany with Iraq. 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Lionator said:

I have found that the moment I’ve taken a side in this, is the moment I need to take a step back. There are no good or bad in geopolitics, usually just psychopathic scheming to achieve goals. In suppose in recent history there have been a combination of terrible decisions that history should in particular focus on.

 

- Trump pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal. This was by far the stupidest of the lot. All of this could’ve been avoided imo, especially with the thawing of Iranian-Saudi relations.

- October 7th, nothing more to say. An appalling slaughter of innocent civilians.

- The destruction of Gaza, again just pure emotive evil. I get the anger and pain of October 7th but acting on raw emotion is perilously stupid.

- Biden being pathetic and the horrendously incapable Blinken not being able to strike a deal and giving Israel free rein to do whatever.

- Hezbollah firing into Northern Israel. Again responding with raw emotion at the treatment of Palestinians was not the correct decision.

 

There are many others. There are bad actors in every side of this conflict. There are no good guys, the only people I’ve seen approach it with any sanity are the Jordanian’s and that probably explains why that’s the most stable country in the area. 

Can I take issue with your Hezbollah line ?

they launched their first rockets on October 8th. Israel were still fighting against Hamas inside their country on Oct 8th.  Hezbollah’s actions were purely opportunistic on Oct 8th. It was done in support of Hamas and to try and open up a second front to stretch the Israeli forces. It was only much much later that they linked it to a ceasefire. 

[Lionator]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Can I take issue with your Hezbollah line ?

they launched their first rockets on October 8th. Israel were still fighting against Hamas inside their country on Oct 8th.  Hezbollah’s actions were purely opportunistic on Oct 8th. It was done in support of Hamas and to try and open up a second front to stretch the Israeli forces. It was only much much later that they linked it to a ceasefire. 

Fair enough, but the underlying point still stands! Hamas, Hezbollah, Netanyahu and his psychopaths, IRGC, Biden & Trump, Assad + all the rest. All belong in hell. 

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Fair enough, but the underlying point still stands! Hamas, Hezbollah, Netanyahu and his psychopaths, IRGC, Biden & Trump, Assad + all the rest. All belong in hell. 

 

i think Biden has been clumsy in the face of a difficult political situation and I think trump is more dumb than evil when it comes to foreign affairs

the gates to hades are sure gonna be busy ……..

[Foxdiamond]

38 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Yup, 58,000 American soldiers killed, up to 4 million Vietnamese, and for what? 
 

A British foreign policy success staying out. Like France and Germany with Iraq. 

And of course the Aussies were in Vietnam for their own reasons I guess.

[Trav Le Bleu]

33 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Fair enough, but the underlying point still stands! Hamas, Hezbollah, Netanyahu and his psychopaths, IRGC, Biden & Trump, Assad + all the rest. All belong in hell. 

Are they not already?

[Trav Le Bleu]

26 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

i think Biden has been clumsy in the face of a difficult political situation and I think trump is more dumb than evil when it comes to foreign affairs

the gates to hades are sure gonna be busy ……..

Charon must be racking it in!

[MPH]

 Top draw evading by this ‘politician’, here. 
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cdd4rpv5jp0o
 

 

[Jon the Hat]

8 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Tbf the UK shouldn't be holding on to the Chagos Islands and having it used as a CIA deniable funhouse anyway.

Yeah lets let the Chinese have it, they are known leaders in the human rights space!

[Dr The Singh]

5 hours ago, Lionator said:

Fair enough, but the underlying point still stands! Hamas, Hezbollah, Netanyahu and his psychopaths, IRGC, Biden & Trump, Assad + all the rest. All belong in hell. 

Can we add India and its nationalist shit to it 

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yeah lets let the Chinese have it, they are known leaders in the human rights space!

...or we can simply let the Mauritians hold on to it as they originally did, and not buy into a puerile idea of the world being a realpolitik board game where the light side or the dark side has to control all the pieces and squares.

 

NB. For all their considerable domestic sins, I'm not sure how many military bases and "blacksites" the Chinese have outside their direct territory, but I'd hazard a guess that it's less than the powers that decide to oppose them do (mostly American). That is of course not a endorsement of them having one more, rather just pointing out, again, how ridiculous the whole mindset is.

[Lionator]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yeah lets let the Chinese have it, they are known leaders in the human rights space!

From all accounts the Chinese is a lazy conclusion to beat Starmer with, Mauritius’s biggest influence/allies are India and France and unless I’m not mistaken, they are both on ‘our side’ in one sense or another. 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Lionator said:

From all accounts the Chinese is a lazy conclusion to beat Starmer with, Mauritius’s biggest influence/allies are India and France and unless I’m not mistaken, they are both on ‘our side’ in one sense or another. 

Doesn't stop the usual suspects in the press and otherwise from taking it and running with it for their own gain, though.

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[leicsmac]

13 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

And of course the Aussies were in Vietnam for their own reasons I guess.

Favours from the Americans, most likely.

 

I'm curious to know if there was another reason.

[Foxdiamond]

56 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Favours from the Americans, most likely.

 

I'm curious to know if there was another reason.

I think the official reason was the fear of spread of communism in south east Asia though that does seem mad looking back

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

I think the official reason was the fear of spread of communism in south east Asia though that does seem mad looking back

Yeah, Truman and his "domino theory" that people like Dulles ran with and Johnson acted upon has rather a lot to answer for.

[Mickyblueeyes]

With the Middle East, neither player at this stage has an “end game”. Its destruction. Regardless of what has happened, the influence of those filled with hatred has filtered through each system and there is no going back from that. Whether it be IDF being told rape is a “tool” and the Palestinians not being granted a homeland or Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran calling for the entire destruction of the state Israel - neither is a plausible end game. I know some take issue (without real reason) with comparison but as had always been the case, **** them and their own double agenda combined with either stupidity or ignorance / there is an issue here with the mindset now fed through. The good guys ain’t getting a voice. 
 

I think it was the Jordan FM who stood up at the UN, and said, I on behalf of 57 Arab states would guarantee the Israeli state provided that there was meaningful and genuine move towards  the emergence of a Palestinian homeland. That combined with the Abraham accords shows there can be dialogue. From the Israeli side, such dialogue is a non-starter as regardless of what ridiculousness is spread, the govt is filled and only remaining with far right extremist who wouldn’t entertain the idea of a state - in fact are hell bent on expansion, see the Israeli ambassador to the UK as an example, 

 

Iran is a problem. Israel in its current state is a problem. To defeat one the other has to recognise that the third party has to exist, free, without restriction. Kill the idea of the cause. What we do about Temple Mount though, I have no idea. At this moment, we are miles away from any sort of peace. Down playing deaths also is a bit of a dick move seeing the destruction out there. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

15 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Zionism was originally defined as supporting the existence of a Jewish state. The word has been hijacked over the past few years, especially the past twelve months. 

 

 

 

key element: Zionism is the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. What defines Palestine.