Lineker’s last season with MOTD

[Long Eaton Fox]

Leicester through and through. Always promoted Leicester on MOTD. Great footballer. An articulate and clever presenter who linked in his co presenters seamlessly. Not forgetting his financial help in Leicesters time of need. Hero to me.

[An Away Move]

I really like Lineker and feel aligned with him politically on most things, but I think he should resign over this for two reasons, 

 

1) It doesn’t matter if it was ‘an accident’. The rat thing is 100% antisemitic. Not knowing is not the point. Maybe I’m being very sensitive about this because my partner and three year old daughter are Jewish. Antisemitic tropes are as harmful as any other form of racism. But somehow there seems to be more tolerance for it ‘because Israel’. Antisemitism is a completely separate thing to the actions of what the Israeli state is doing (horrendous right now IMO). For context,  Antisemitism has been around for thousands of years. Israel was created in 1948. I want my daughter to grow up in a world which is less tolerant of antisemitism. Lineker has let himself off too easily by saying ‘ooh sorry mistake’. He wouldn’t get away with that re: other forms of overt racism. 

2) He professes to love the BBC. His action and not-resigning over this harms the organisation. It just adds bolster to all those who are ideologically against the BBC license fee and who see it as ‘Leftist’. He’s actively harming the organisation by not falling on his sword. 

[StanSP]

46 minutes ago, An Away Move said:

I really like Lineker and feel aligned with him politically on most things, but I think he should resign over this for two reasons, 

 

1) It doesn’t matter if it was ‘an accident’. The rat thing is 100% antisemitic. Not knowing is not the point. Maybe I’m being very sensitive about this because my partner and three year old daughter are Jewish. Antisemitic tropes are as harmful as any other form of racism. But somehow there seems to be more tolerance for it ‘because Israel’. Antisemitism is a completely separate thing to the actions of what the Israeli state is doing (horrendous right now IMO). For context,  Antisemitism has been around for thousands of years. Israel was created in 1948. I want my daughter to grow up in a world which is less tolerant of antisemitism. Lineker has let himself off too easily by saying ‘ooh sorry mistake’. He wouldn’t get away with that re: other forms of overt racism. 

2) He professes to love the BBC. His action and not-resigning over this harms the organisation. It just adds bolster to all those who are ideologically against the BBC license fee and who see it as ‘Leftist’. He’s actively harming the organisation by not falling on his sword. 

1. Surely not knowing could be the point? If you were accidentally prejudices for not knowing what is offensive to someone, and someone told you 'yeah well you not knowing what that meant isn't the point' that'd be wrong and unfair on you, no? 

 

2. That would be those who criticise the BBC's problem, to me. I don't it harms the organisation, and I doubt they're that fearful of those who aim such criticism. It's a minority I'd say. 

 

[hejammy]

Honestly it feels like with lot of people, they were just waiting for him to do something so that they could criticise. He posts a lot, says a lot, is always in the media spotlight, obviously no matter how intelligent he is, he's bound to mess up at some point. He admitted the mistake, apologised and deleted it. I feel that some people just want any excuse to attack him due to his humanitarian view point on Gaza. If only more people who could make a difference spoke about the atrocities being commited. 

Edited 17 May 2025 by hejammy

[Trav Le Bleu]

7 hours ago, Long Eaton Fox said:

Leicester through and through. Always promoted Leicester on MOTD. Great footballer. An articulate and clever presenter who linked in his co presenters seamlessly. Not forgetting his financial help in Leicesters time of need. Hero to me.

I think a lot of people on here are either too young to realise that he was pivotal to this club still existing... or too thick. 

[Bordersfox]

14 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I think a lot of people on here are either too young to realise that he was pivotal to this club still existing... or too thick. 

Or too enraged by him having an opinion that doesn't align to their own.  

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, An Away Move said:

I really like Lineker and feel aligned with him politically on most things, but I think he should resign over this for two reasons, 

 

1) It doesn’t matter if it was ‘an accident’. The rat thing is 100% antisemitic. 

Is it though? I like to think my history knowledge is some way above average and I've kind of got a vague recollection, but it certainly wouldn't spring to mind.

 

What does spring to mind is the common usage of the word rat to describe someone unlikeable, untrustworthy and deceitful. Which certainly applies to the powers that be in Israel.

 

Obviously, if you're Jewish, you are more likely to know that and possibly not realise that the great majority of other people haven't a clue.

 

So many wars and battles are fought over perceived slights and offences because groups of people (not just Jews) won't let go if stuff that happened decades or even centuries ago.

 

When will humanity learn?

[st albans fox]

3 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Is it though? I like to think my history knowledge is some way above average and I've kind of got a vague recollection, but it certainly wouldn't spring to mind.

 

What does spring to mind is the common usage of the word rat to describe someone unlikeable, untrustworthy and deceitful. Which certainly applies to the powers that be in Israel.

 

Obviously, if you're Jewish, you are more likely to know that and possibly not realise that the great majority of other people haven't a clue.

 

So many wars and battles are fought over perceived slights and offences because groups of people (not just Jews) won't let go if stuff that happened decades or even centuries ago.

 

When will humanity learn?

A rat was used in nazi germany propaganda to depict (amongst others) Jews. 
Lineker is fully entitled to post what he wants on his SM - perhaps he should check a little more deeply about some of the content of videos etc that he reposts or links to. 
also, the logic that says being silent on something makes you complicit - how many are noisy about Sudan, Yemen, Congo, Uighurs ?  Does that make them complicit ?  The fact that I don’t see him commenting on these places/conflicts raises the question on his complicity there based on that logic. 

 

you’ll find that millennia of being persecuted has left Jews with a nervousness and in some cases, over sensitivity,  that doesn’t exist in other races.   When will humanity learn indeed ?

Edited 17 May 2025 by st albans fox

[An Away Move]

4 hours ago, An Away Move said:

The rat thing is 100% antisemitic. 

 

3 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Is it though?

 

Wow!

[bovril]

15 minutes ago, An Away Move said:

 

 

Wow!

I love the smell of cognitive dissonance in the morning...

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

I love the smell of cognitive dissonance in the morning...

Wait till, the match thread tomorrow. - you ain’t seen nothing yet. 😄

[Trav Le Bleu]

17 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

A rat was used in nazi germany propaganda to depict (amongst others) Jews. 
Lineker is fully entitled to post what he wants on his SM - perhaps he should check a little more deeply about some of the content of videos etc that he reposts or links to. 
also, the logic that says being silent on something makes you complicit - how many are noisy about Sudan, Yemen, Congo, Uighurs ?  Does that them complicit ?  The fact that I don’t see him commenting on these places raises the question on his complicity there based on that logic. 

 

you’ll find that millennia of being persecuted has left Jews with a nervousness and in some cases, over sensitivity,  that doesn’t exist in other races.   When will humanity learn indeed ?

You forgot Kurds, Yazidi, Assyrians... etc and did I mention Arabs?

 

If you're going to go down the complicit by silence route, then we're all complicit, cos there's no way you can speak out against each specific instance.

 

You can mere want that all people can put their differences aside, which means as I said, not harbouring grievances for centuries. Sadly it's usually about who is wearing the boot at any given time.

[Trav Le Bleu]

26 minutes ago, An Away Move said:

 

 

Wow!

So you think that the insult of being called a rat is ok for other people, but not for Jews?

 

Wow!

[inckley fox]

I must admit, I've taught the symbolism of rats, I've taught the Holocaust and Israel, but I'd never thought of the rat as a specifically antisemitic symbol. I know it's been used against the Japanese as well, and I'm sure many others, but it was a bit of an education for me, as well as Lineker, to have the antisemitic imagery explained in some detail.

 

However, obviously we know what a rat more generally represents, so he was unwise to be re-posting something which made use of it in the way it did, regardless of what he did or didn't know about its past use. My guess is that he took it as a throwaway reference to what he perceived as Israel's grubby/disgusting policy in Gaza. I can understand why someone might make a mistake like that, but you should be a lot more careful in what you're effectively publishing online and he was right to apologise.

 

As for whether it should end at that... I think it should, personally. If we don't want to live in a world where people don't feel they can say anything, and freedom of speech is shackled by the fear of causing offence to someone somewhere, then we have to accept that an honest apology for a genuine mistake, even when we find it abhorrent, is a lot better than doubling down on your error. There are enough people out there right now who are happy to bang the drum of antisemitism, or racism in general, and I much prefer someone saying 'sorry, I got that wrong' to insisting they got it right (and winning elections on the basis of it!).

 

None of that is meant to question the seriousness of antisemitism, by the way. I've spent many an hour going over this with some of my more militantly left-wing friends, but I reckon that the way that they express themselves, both online and in the pub, is a world apart from what Lineker was saying.

[SheppyFox]

I don’t like him but he’s a good fit for MOTD. Also I dread to think what sort of replacement they have lined up.

[HighPeakFox]

I think perhaps we could continue this difficult conversation elsewhere. I have stuff to add but don't really want to divert matters further. 

[An Away Move]

1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

So you think that the insult of being called a rat is ok for other people, but not for Jews?

 

Wow!

My friend, this really isn’t a good look for you. You probably ought to delete it. 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

So you think that the insult of being called a rat is ok for other people, but not for Jews?

 

Wow!

Context is v important 

I can call you a rat in a conversation - just likening someone to a rat isn’t a terrible insult. 
go look at  nazi propaganda and see how they used the image of a rat to dehumanise the Jews (and others) to make it more palatable to exterminate them.
 

thats the point. 

[bovril]

43 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

 

However, obviously we know what a rat more generally represents, so he was unwise to be re-posting something which made use of it in the way it did, regardless of what he did or didn't know about its past use. 

I think the point is he doesn't care. It's just a way for him to get a bit of publicity and further cultivate the image he's created for himself. Social media is about ideal self and gaining kudos, not genuine debate

Edited 17 May 2025 by bovril

[Trav Le Bleu]

40 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Context is v important 

I can call you a rat in a conversation - just likening someone to a rat isn’t a terrible insult. 
go look at  nazi propaganda and see how they used the image of a rat to dehumanise the Jews (and others) to make it more palatable to exterminate them.
 

thats the point. 

My point is that genuinely a person might not realise. Maybe ignorance isn't an excuse (though to my mind, not remembering is the only way to stop it) but when an apology is given, then a refusal to accept it seems very gauche, even obtuse.

 

What do people want? Lineker walking naked from St Paul's to Westminster Abbey constantly ringing a bell and shouting shame?

 

A person might say that the apology was, "just words", but if that is the case then why is not the offending item, "just words" (I realise in this case it was a picture, but I feel the analogy applies).

 

Being a rat is not a good look for anyone. It's not just 100% antisemitic, it's 100% anyone. As you say in your post, the rat slur was used against other groups too. 

 

If it was a pig, I'd understand that much more... but wait, that would also be an insult to Muslims.

 

Jews and Muslims have a lot in common, why can't we all just get along?

Edited 17 May 2025 by Trav Le Bleu

[David Hankey]

Call anyone what you like but isn't it disrespectful? And in this particularly case ignorance came into play.

[st albans fox]

28 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

 

Jews and Muslims have a lot in common, why can't we all just get along?

according to the bible they are real brothers, not just slang

 

anyway, it shouldn’t be about religion.  Differences and consequential disagreements should not be about religion - but sadly a lot are.  (And have been over the centuries). 
 

none of which has anything to do with Gary so it’s possible that this thread could well be locked soon!

Edited 17 May 2025 by st albans fox

[bmt]

14 hours ago, Long Eaton Fox said:

Leicester through and through. Always promoted Leicester on MOTD. Great footballer. An articulate and clever presenter who linked in his co presenters seamlessly. Not forgetting his financial help in Leicesters time of need. Hero to me.

I really dislike him but this kinda hits home. Good lad

[Bordersfox]

1 hour ago, SheppyFox said:

I don’t like him but he’s a good fit for MOTD. Also I dread to think what sort of replacement they have lined up.

The new hosts were announced ages ago.  Chapman, Logan, Cates will be sharing the role.  

[markko]

The BBC are supposed to be impartial. GL has to tow the line while employed by them. Having said that perhaps if they stopped being politically correct it would not come as a shock when someone says something of substance. Some of the things happening around the world are horrendous and people ought to be aware of them. It is a small world so it does affect us eventually in some shape or form.