Kp1984 Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 1 hour ago, OntarioFox said: Christ, I didn't even know he'd been the manager for that franchise rabble. As if I didn't want him at the club already, being involved with the fakes is a black mark against the judgement of any manager. I can see why some hated enzo style after watching that the snout of times they passed back into defence wtf 1
honeybradger Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 6 hours ago, kingfox said: If he got us promoted, first and foremost I’d instantly look at the spine of the team. Quality over quantity, and hopefully you can smash a 10/10 transfer window, but even that might not be enough. I think that was another issue of ours this season, you could probably make the same case for Southampton and Ipswich, we simply didn’t strengthen the spine of our team and it hurt us. Looking at the recent trend of how newly promoted teams have stayed up, I agree that Dyche would probably give us a better chance of staying up if he achieved promotion. The problem with Dyche though, you don’t really want his style of football as a long term plan either. If the shift in change continues in the Premier League, then you have to follow the Bournemouth, Brentford, Palace, Fulham and unfortunately Forest type model imo. Those teams have shown in some way or other, that they can be a threat when it comes to fast breaks or counter attacks. Four of those teams also rank in the top five for direct speed too. Leicester City in the Premier League this season ranked… 18th for direct speed 19th for direct attacks 18th for fast breaks And there’s your proof why imo we haven’t got on trend. And that boils down to Steve Cooper signing the likes of Ayew and Reid, and also RVN for persisting to play with our slowest attackers. Idiotic management. You're not going to get fast wing play from Russel Martin. He prefered to play with slower indirect players out wide at Southampton and Swansea. Usually strikers or midfielders and never wingers, so the likes of Monga, Mavididi and Fatawu will not get gametime under him. Considering all the promotion of Monga over the last few months, if we bring in Martin or Dyche it shows just how poor our club's strategy is as he won't play under them. 2 1
Pliskin Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 39 minutes ago, honeybradger said: You're not going to get fast wing play from Russel Martin. He prefered to play with slower indirect players out wide at Southampton and Swansea. Usually strikers or midfielders and never wingers, so the likes of Monga, Mavididi and Fatawu will not get gametime under him. Considering all the promotion of Monga over the last few months, if we bring in Martin or Dyche it shows just how poor our club's strategy is as he won't play under them. But did Martin have those options at his disposal at Southampton?
honeybradger Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Pliskin said: But did Martin have those options at his disposal at Southampton? He had edozie and sulemana as pacier options and didn't start them. When Maresca came in we brought in Mavididi, Fatawu, Akgun as options out wide that could take people on as that's what he needed for his system. It's not a coincidence that Rusell Martin, who knows exactly how he wants his team to play, doesnt sign pace on the wing and ends up with slower player out wide that cant take players on wherever he goes. Edited 25 May 2025 by honeybradger
trooky Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 (edited) 10 hours ago, Golden Fox said: That is one of the most dreadful passages of football I've ever seen. Every time they got near an opposing player, they shat themselves and passed it backwards. Over 50 passes doing nothing, just to then show it could be done in 3 or 4 if they actually attacked. They should be embarrassed by that record - not celebrating it. How our board could think our fans want that being drilled into our players shows how out of touch they continue to be. Dreadful, it took the first 50 to get the ball under control. 😂 Edited 25 May 2025 by trooky
FoxesWalk Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 Based on the mass activity on this thread I’m guessing this unbearable cvnt is about to be unveiled as our new manager?
Pliskin Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 1 hour ago, honeybradger said: He had edozie and sulemana as pacier options and didn't start them. When Maresca came in we brought in Mavididi, Fatawu, Akgun as options out wide that could take people on as that's what he needed for his system. It's not a coincidence that Rusell Martin, who knows exactly how he wants his team to play, doesnt sign pace on the wing and ends up with slower player out wide that cant take players on wherever he goes. Well if he does end up here and that’s what he does then he will get murdered. One bonus maybe, and this is clutching at straws. Is we’re unlikely to go mad in the window, so he’s not going have as much at his disposal as he did Southampton. So he’s may be forced to do things slightly differently. If you’ve not got a massive squad, you then can ignore the likes of Fatawu, Mavididi and potentially Monga and live to tell the tale.
Parker Pen Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 11 hours ago, Golden Fox said: That is one of the most dreadful passages of football I've ever seen. Every time they got near an opposing player, they shat themselves and passed it backwards. Over 50 passes doing nothing, just to then show it could be done in 3 or 4 if they actually attacked. They should be embarrassed by that record - not celebrating it. How our board could think our fans want that being drilled into our players shows how out of touch they continue to be. Covid era football, less pressure from the crowd yelling at them to gerrit forward! Its like a training excercise and I really hope we don’t appoint Martin. Next season is going to be horrible in the Championship with a lot of strong and ambitious teams. We need a manager who is going to make the team scrap for every point not him please! 2
davieG Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 Judging from the games I've watched you need a backline and midfield that are prepared to put their bodies in the way of the ball. I've never seen so many blocked speculative shots. 1
5waller5 Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 On 23/05/2025 at 17:02, gurru991 said: Choosing between Martin and Dyche is like being asked if you would rather be kicked in the left nut or kicked in the right nut Left. Definitely left. 1
honeybradger Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 32 minutes ago, Pliskin said: Well if he does end up here and that’s what he does then he will get murdered. One bonus maybe, and this is clutching at straws. Is we’re unlikely to go mad in the window, so he’s not going have as much at his disposal as he did Southampton. So he’s may be forced to do things slightly differently. If you’ve not got a massive squad, you then can ignore the likes of Fatawu, Mavididi and potentially Monga and live to tell the tale. It will be the likes of Ayew, Mcateer, Cordova Reid on the wing ahead of Mavidi, Fatawu, Monga. Maybe at best Alves will play who is good at retaining the ball when driving forwards. We would never have wingers that take a risk taking players on under Martin, it goes against everything he stands for in football.
kingfox Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 3 hours ago, honeybradger said: You're not going to get fast wing play from Russel Martin. He prefered to play with slower indirect players out wide at Southampton and Swansea. Usually strikers or midfielders and never wingers, so the likes of Monga, Mavididi and Fatawu will not get gametime under him. Considering all the promotion of Monga over the last few months, if we bring in Martin or Dyche it shows just how poor our club's strategy is as he won't play under them. Off the top of my head, I can recall him playing Adam Armstrong out wide numerous times in that promotion season at Southampton. With those specific stats I mentioned, like Leicester, Southampton ranked very poorly in those statistics too. It’s impossible to tell how much of that was down to Martin or Juric, but I guess they both had an equal hand at why those specific stats are so crap. Southampton’s counter attack stats in the Championship were bang average too. This is where Russell Martin needs to tweak things, otherwise he’ll harm Leicester City along with his own managerial credentials in England. 1
RedSoxUK Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 9 minutes ago, honeybradger said: We would never have wingers that take a risk taking players on under Martin, it goes against everything he stands for in football. Just to dispute that a bit... His Southampton side had he most progressive carries, 3rd highest take ons (more than us,) 4th highest crosses. People can peddle the 'possession for possessions sake' narrative but they did create, score goals, and got promoted doing it in a specific style and there's absolutely nothing to suggest that wouldn't be the case here with the clear objective of promotion. Worrying about how he would adapt a promoted Leicester side to avoid relegation isn't today's problem. 3
5waller5 Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 Thread summary for anyone joining late: Who’s our worst ever manager: The current guy, the one before him, or the one we’re just about to recruit? A conversation that nicely highlights the incompetence of our Board 2 1
splinterdream Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 A Southampton opinion on YouTube the final whistle. The fan had a very good opinion of Martin and thinks he will do a lot better with us than he did against Southampton. Didn't blame him for their demise as he had players sold from him and they couldn't get their targets, DoF left etc. Says he thinks Martin would be the sort of person to reflect on previous experience and tweek playing style, says Martin is tactically aware. I don't see this appointment as the appointment of doom many on here do, I think we won't have many coming in and need to utilise all our players, winks and vestegaard included, and Martin might be the perfect fit to do that 4
Iwebema Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 25 minutes ago, kingfox said: Off the top of my head, I can recall him playing Adam Armstrong out wide numerous times in that promotion season at Southampton. With those specific stats I mentioned, like Leicester, Southampton ranked very poorly in those statistics too. It’s impossible to tell how much of that was down to Martin or Juric, but I guess they both had an equal hand at why those specific stats are so crap. Southampton’s counter attack stats in the Championship were bang average too. This is where Russell Martin needs to tweak things, otherwise he’ll harm Leicester City along with his own managerial credentials in England. Tough to counter attack in the championship when every team you play just sits in and shows no ambition tbf. I dont mind the possession based style, but his particular version of it seems to be on the downward trend, it only really works when you have the best players in the division (which we will arguably have) it always come down to the wingers for me, I dont mind the build up getting it around the box, its when the winger takes the player on, does a step over turns around and passes it backwards. Absolutely drives me nuts. Take your fullback on and get it in the box, all you do by delaying it is allow the opposition to fall back into a good position and shape making it even harder to score unless you smash one in from 25-30 yards. My hope would be this is the element Martin would change, but I wouldn't hold my breath, the only thing he seems to have signalled he'd change is getting his players to be less honest and master the dark arts. He would deserve a chance to show he can tweak it, I also think he would have us in play off contention minus and points deductions. Problem is even if he does get us promoted its hard to see how his brand of football with the quality of player we would have could work in the prem.
honeybradger Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 23 minutes ago, RedSoxUK said: Just to dispute that a bit... His Southampton side had he most progressive carries, 3rd highest take ons (more than us,) 4th highest crosses. People can peddle the 'possession for possessions sake' narrative but they did create, score goals, and got promoted doing it in a specific style and there's absolutely nothing to suggest that wouldn't be the case here with the clear objective of promotion. Worrying about how he would adapt a promoted Leicester side to avoid relegation isn't today's problem. Out of interest where did you get those stats from? Edoze and Kyle Walker Peters were the only players they had that season that dribbled semi regularly and got over 1000 minutes. I cant see how they had more take ons than us when we had Fatawu and Mavididi get over 3000 minutes.
RedSoxUK Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 6 minutes ago, honeybradger said: Out of interest where did you get those stats from? Edoze and Kyle Walker Peters were the only players they had that season that dribbled semi regularly and got over 1000 minutes. I cant see how they had more take ons than us when we had Fatawu and Mavididi get over 3000 minutes. https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/2023-2024/2023-2024-Championship-Stats
Pliskin Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 1 hour ago, honeybradger said: It will be the likes of Ayew, Mcateer, Cordova Reid on the wing ahead of Mavidi, Fatawu, Monga. Maybe at best Alves will play who is good at retaining the ball when driving forwards. We would never have wingers that take a risk taking players on under Martin, it goes against everything he stands for in football. Martins far too much of a gamble. At least Maresca’s basic principals of having two wide players worked. If he hasn’t assessed this and realised it’s a bad idea we could be screwed. Can’t afford to waste what will be a limited window.
Foxin_Mad Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 The biggest concern I have is how many goals they conceded, 20 odd more than us. Absolute bombscare shit, we need the complete opposite of this clown head.
kingfox Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 21 minutes ago, Iwebema said: Tough to counter attack in the championship when every team you play just sits in and shows no ambition tbf. I dont mind the possession based style, but his particular version of it seems to be on the downward trend, it only really works when you have the best players in the division (which we will arguably have) it always come down to the wingers for me, I dont mind the build up getting it around the box, its when the winger takes the player on, does a step over turns around and passes it backwards. Absolutely drives me nuts. Take your fullback on and get it in the box, all you do by delaying it is allow the opposition to fall back into a good position and shape making it even harder to score unless you smash one in from 25-30 yards. My hope would be this is the element Martin would change, but I wouldn't hold my breath, the only thing he seems to have signalled he'd change is getting his players to be less honest and master the dark arts. He would deserve a chance to show he can tweak it, I also think he would have us in play off contention minus and points deductions. Problem is even if he does get us promoted its hard to see how his brand of football with the quality of player we would have could work in the prem. I’m gonna have to do a RedSox and dispute that claim slightly. Under Enzo Maresca we actually ranked 1st for counter attacks per90 in the Championship, we averaged 2.3, Southampton under Martin averaged 1.3 As for the second paragraph, I fully agree, but as I alluded to in another post yesterday, heavy possession has proved to be a successful formula in the Championship, but not a successful formula for newly promoted teams in the Premier League, this is where I feel some teams are becoming unstuck, but what do you do? In Russell Martin’s case, I feel he needs to get on trend slightly, or he’ll continue on that downward trend that you’ve alluded to. He needs to add more dynamism to his teams. At Leicester he’ll have Mavididi and Fatawu at his disposal, but at Southampton he had Sulemana and Edozie, they both ranked high when it came to take-ons per90, but Martin only started them in 10 and 16 games respectively. As you say, this is the one tweak that Russell Martin must make, and the evidence is there. Like yourself, I wouldn’t be too concerned with Russell Martin as manager in the Championship, just because history has shown that heavy possession is a successful formula in this league, but it’s the long term ramifications that would concern me, we’ll be going round in circles again if he doesn’t show willingness to tweak things. 1
Kitchandro Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 1 hour ago, honeybradger said: It will be the likes of Ayew, Mcateer, Cordova Reid on the wing ahead of Mavidi, Fatawu, Monga. Maybe at best Alves will play who is good at retaining the ball when driving forwards. We would never have wingers that take a risk taking players on under Martin, it goes against everything he stands for in football. Or worse, he’ll play them and instruct them not to take risks, ruining them as players. If we’re honest, that’s what it was like under Maresca as well. Even if they’re allowed to take players on, the slow pace means they’re always trying to do it from a standing start with the defenders perfectly in position. It’s often a case of 2-on-1 because there isn’t enough movement or tempo to move defenders around or tire them out. It’s a style that basically nullifies the qualities of pacy wingers for most of the game.
Iwebema Posted 25 May 2025 Posted 25 May 2025 7 minutes ago, kingfox said: Under Enzo Maresca we actually ranked 1st for counter attacks per90 in the Championship, we averaged 2.3, Southampton under Martin averaged 1.3 Did we really? That's interesting, honestly felt that every game outside of the Southampton game we were just camped on the oppositions box. I stand corrected! I'm much less negative about the appointment than some on here, I can see a pathway to it being successful but it does feel very predictable amd short term. I maybe naively think we have better wide players than he had at Southampton who he will have to use and can work well in his system at this level. One thing I would say, considering we all know how much play power there is in the dressing room currently, I do think the players would take well to him and enjoy playing his football which is half the battle. Overall I'd much rather look towards Rohl or wider across the football world. But I dont think it will be as bad as some are making out.
Recommended Posts