General News Thread

[Jon the Hat]

 Where tax is not being paid according to HMRC…

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

 Where tax is not being paid according to HMRC…

So, is this tax that that has been avoided/evaded, claimed false accounting or just declared taxable profits as yet unpaid (IE, owing)?

 

I'm guessing tax avoidance isn't a factor as the wealthy would feature more prominently.

[Trav Le Bleu]

8 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Lots of words but you don’t get to the point here - what needs more focus?

Are chocolate bars still chocolate bars, of course! 

 

Seriously, you're skirting round the big issues that are of greatest import.

[Jon the Hat]

33 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

So, is this tax that that has been avoided/evaded, claimed false accounting or just declared taxable profits as yet unpaid (IE, owing)?

 

I'm guessing tax avoidance isn't a factor as the wealthy would feature more prominently.

This is tax which HMRC believes is payable which is not paid.  The wealthy are in fact not the problem.  Of course you can tax them more by changing the rates and approach, but they are generally not avoiding tax, just using the rules as they were largely intended.    40% of small businesses meanwhile are underpaying tax.

[Lionator]

9 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Lots of words but you don’t get to the point here - what needs more focus?

Getting rid of right wing politicians who see immigration as a way of suppressing wages while complaining about immigration. Getting rid of left wing politicians who are uncomfortable in linking wage suppression with immigration because they don’t want to be seen as racist. 

[Lionator]

41 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

So, is this tax that that has been avoided/evaded, claimed false accounting or just declared taxable profits as yet unpaid (IE, owing)?

 

I'm guessing tax avoidance isn't a factor as the wealthy would feature more prominently.

Isn’t this basically where we pay out local sparky or Chinese in cash rather than card?

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Lionator said:

Isn’t this basically where we pay out local sparky or Chinese in cash rather than card?

Partly yes. Also though small businesses being scammed by dodgy advisers to pay "subcontractors" who are really employees is a big part of it.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

This is tax which HMRC believes is payable which is not paid.  The wealthy are in fact not the problem.  Of course you can tax them more by changing the rates and approach, but they are generally not avoiding tax, just using the rules as they were largely intended.    40% of small businesses meanwhile are underpaying tax.

That sounds about right. 

 

It also sounds like a reason why the rules are rather flawed. 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

So, is this tax that that has been avoided/evaded, claimed false accounting or just declared taxable profits as yet unpaid (IE, owing)?

 

I'm guessing tax avoidance isn't a factor as the wealthy would feature more prominently.

 

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

This is tax which HMRC believes is payable which is not paid.  The wealthy are in fact not the problem.  Of course you can tax them more by changing the rates and approach, but they are generally not avoiding tax, just using the rules as they were largely intended.    40% of small businesses meanwhile are underpaying tax.

Anyone who has run a small business knows this to be true 

the authorities cannot effectively police every business. 
whilst cash exists, so will tax evasion 

 

and stock manipulation reduces profits to avoid corporation tax. 
 

[Jon the Hat]

47 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That sounds about right. 

 

It also sounds like a reason why the rules are rather flawed. 

0.1% of the tax paying population is paying over half the income tax in the country.  And people think we don't need to be very very careful about millionaires leaving.  36,000 people.  People who built businesses, created wonderful things like Harry potter.  They pay a vast amount of tax on their vast incomes.

 

The funny thing is, people like James Dyson get vilified for moving some production out of the country but pays over 100 million pounds a year in tax, from a business he literally built himself. 

 

Honestly this will end in some very rich people leaving and a massive whole opening up in the economy.

Edited 21 October 2025 by Jon the Hat

[kenny]

22 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That sounds about right. 

 

It also sounds like a reason why the rules are rather flawed. 

It depends whether you want to be attractive as a country to people with wealth such as Italy.

 

These individuals being present increases inequality. However, I see them as free cash. Even if they don't base their businesses in the country they live, they use little services and pay for all luxury goods, staffing, regular taxation, all on top of whatever wealth tax they pay to be here. Driving them away out of spite is so stupid.

[leicsmac]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

0.1% of the tax paying population is paying over half the tax in the country.  And people think we don't need to be very very careful about millionaires leaving.  36,000 people.  People who built businesses, created wonderful things like Discworld.  They pay a vast amount of tax on their vast incomes.

FYP.

 

But on the general point being made here, there's a lot of scare stories about wealthy people upping sticks when taxes go up but firstly there are places where there are higher tax rates and a better standard of living all round where that doesn't happen, and secondly addressing inequality is a massive concern and I'd be interested in hearing other ways it might happen. 

[leicsmac]

Just now, kenny said:

It depends whether you want to be attractive as a country to people with wealth such as Italy.

 

These individuals being present increases inequality. However, I see them as free cash. Even if they don't base their businesses in the country they live, they use little services and pay for all luxury goods, staffing, regular taxation, all on top of whatever wealth tax they pay to be here. Driving them away out of spite is so stupid.

Depends whether they actually use those services and keep money in circulation or just hoard. 

 

And as per above, increasing inequality is a massive driver of social disorder and we really should be looking to address that however possible. 

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

FYP.

 

But on the general point being made here, there's a lot of scare stories about wealthy people upping sticks when taxes go up but firstly there are places where there are higher tax rates and a better standard of living all round where that doesn't happen, and secondly addressing inequality is a massive concern and I'd be interested in hearing other ways it might happen. 

Plenty moving to Dubai recently who pays tens of millions in tax.  The issue we have is that we have attracted a lot of mobile wealth in the past 30 years, and while we could attract more to help the economy, we seem to be trying to do the opposite, for political reasons, and this this likely to cost us all more in the medium term.  Inequality is completely irrelevant between you and me and the mega rich.  What matters is the inequality between the upper / middle class and the poor.

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Depends whether they actually use those services and keep money in circulation or just hoard. 

 

And as per above, increasing inequality is a massive driver of social disorder and we really should be looking to address that however possible. 

Honestly, I think it is nonsense.  The rich are no more the problem to the man in the street than the immigrants.

[Jon the Hat]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

FYP.

 

But on the general point being made here, there's a lot of scare stories about wealthy people upping sticks when taxes go up but firstly there are places where there are higher tax rates and a better standard of living all round where that doesn't happen, and secondly addressing inequality is a massive concern and I'd be interested in hearing other ways it might happen. 

Sadly the great Terry Pratchett is no longer with us, but I am sure he paid his taxes too, but not probably at the same level as the brilliant J.K. Rowling.

Edited 21 October 2025 by Jon the Hat

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

Plenty moving to Dubai recently who pays tens of millions in tax.  The issue we have is that we have attracted a lot of mobile wealth in the past 30 years, and while we could attract more to help the economy, we seem to be trying to do the opposite, for political reasons, and this this likely to cost us all more in the medium term.  Inequality is completely irrelevant between you and me and the mega rich.  What matters is the inequality between the upper / middle class and the poor.

I agree, and I'm still looking for a way to address that which doesn't involve doing things that the super rich might not like. 

 

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

Honestly, I think it is nonsense.  The rich are no more the problem to the man in the street than the immigrants.

But they don't appear to be contributing much to a solution if results at the present time are any judge, either. 

 

And yes, it's their responsibility to do that, along with everyone else. 

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

I agree, and I'm still looking for a way to address that which doesn't involve doing things that the super rich might not like. 

 

But they don't appear to be contributing much to a solution if results at the present time are any judge, either. 

 

And yes, it's their responsibility to do that, along with everyone else. 

They are paying literally half the bills.  36,000 people paying more in total that the bottom 27,000,000.  It is scary.  

[leicsmac]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

Sadly the great Terry Pratchett is no longer with us, but I am sure he paid his taxes too, but not probably at the same level as the brilliant J.K. Rowling.

He made up for it by actually caring about every single human being, rather than being selective about it. And wrote about such critical issues in a way that put most other authors, Rowling included, in the shade. The Harry Potter series is mediocre writing with an excellent marketing team, nothing more. 

 

But that's a rather fraught discussion, so I'll leave that one there. 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

They are paying literally half the bills.  36,000 people paying more in total that the bottom 27,000,000.  It is scary.  

It is scary, and doesn't end well. Which, again, is why a solution is required rather promptly. 

[Jon the Hat]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

He made up for it by actually caring about every single human being, rather than being selective about it. And wrote about such critical issues in a way that put most other authors, Rowling included, in the shade. The Harry Potter series is mediocre writing with an excellent marketing team, nothing more. 

 

But that's a rather fraught discussion, so I'll leave that one there. 

I am a huge fan of Terry's books and other writings, and as you say they were very clever, thoughtful and wise in their addressing of life.  I've not read Potter to be honest, but the films (which I enjoyed) made the vast majority of the money and have been responsible for literally hundreds of millions in taxes all over the world, so I don't think you can compare their contribution economically, which was where we started.

Edited 21 October 2025 by Jon the Hat

[kenny]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It is scary, and doesn't end well. Which, again, is why a solution is required rather promptly. 

Put the 36000 on boats and kick them out? Equality crisis solved?

[Tommy G]

28 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

0.1% of the tax paying population is paying over half the income tax in the country.  And people think we don't need to be very very careful about millionaires leaving.  36,000 people.  People who built businesses, created wonderful things like Harry potter.  They pay a vast amount of tax on their vast incomes.

 

The funny thing is, people like James Dyson get vilified for moving some production out of the country but pays over 100 million pounds a year in tax, from a business he literally built himself. 

 

Honestly this will end in some very rich people leaving and a massive whole opening up in the economy.

But they are rich and need to be taxed to death because it isn't FAIR.

 

Don't forget that point. 

[Jon the Hat]

14 minutes ago, kenny said:

Put the 36000 on boats and kick them out? Equality crisis solved?

That is certainly one way of bankrupting the country!

[leicsmac]

17 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I am a huge fan of Terry's books and other writings, and as you say they were very clever, thoughtful and wise in their addressing of life.  I've not read Potter to be honest, but the films (which I enjoyed) made the vast majority of the money and have been responsible for literally hundreds of millions in taxes all over the world, so I don't think you can compare their contribution economically, which was where we started.

Honestly, it's very mid-tier. It's unfortunate to ladies like KA Applegate whose Animorphs series was so much higher in standard but much less popular, for whatever reason. 

 

Fair point well made regarding the economic contributions.

 

15 minutes ago, kenny said:

Put the 36000 on boats and kick them out? Equality crisis solved?

I'm pretty sure there are better ways to address the issue. 

 

Would need a better mind than mine to give the idea, though. 

 

6 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

But they are rich and need to be taxed to death because it isn't FAIR.

 

Don't forget that point. 

Addressing inequality isn't just about some abstract idea of fairness, it's also practical from the standpoint that in times of such inequality, people tend to become more tribal, more divided, and there tends to be a fair bit more blood on the street by the end of it all. And as Sollozo in The Godfather once said, blood is itself a big expense.