General News Thread

[Jattdogg]

Hold the line eh!

[bovril]

I don't really understand if Trump ultimately wants Europe to put troops in and defend Greenland or not? 

[Dahnsouff]

23 minutes ago, bovril said:

I don't really understand if Trump ultimately wants Europe to put troops in and defend Greenland or not? 

Quite, just ask and stop acting the clown.

 

Seriously though, this is all rhetoric for his base, just a way to defer blame now or in the future, gives him an enormous amount of wriggle room.

[Tommy G]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

What happens to that world's biggest economy if most everyone does?

 

Edit: if that kind of measure is off the table, I'm wondering what would be a fair response to the current actions of the US government. If any. 

Starmer could at least call them out, but he won’t - as he is a wimp 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

As always, the answer to noise and threats is silence, restraint and most importantly, unity.

And, ultimately, decisive action. 

 

34 minutes ago, bovril said:

I don't really understand if Trump ultimately wants Europe to put troops in and defend Greenland or not? 

He doesn't care about that. He wants the land and the resources, and he feels justified in taking them by whatever means. 

 

3 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Starmer could at least call them out, but he won’t - as he is a wimp 

While I agree with the calling out, that doesn't get anyone much closer to actually stopping what's going on. And it needs to be stopped. 

[Sampson]

With all sincerity, I genuinely hope a lot of the right in UK and Europe who tied themself to Trump, isolationism and country first and unironically use the term “Trump derangement syndrome” are now are starting to realise what all this actually means in practice. 

Edited 17 January by Sampson

[Tommy G]

14 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And, ultimately, decisive action. 

 

He doesn't care about that. He wants the land and the resources, and he feels justified in taking them by whatever means. 

 

While I agree with the calling out, that doesn't get anyone much closer to actually stopping what's going on. And it needs to be stopped. 

Ok well not many options which is why he’s getting away with it? 

[Dahnsouff]

He isn't talking to Europeans, so stop listening.

[Md9]

I genuinely have no idea about any of the tariff stuff but wasn’t a big issue with his tariffs that a lot of it fell back on America anyway, that’s why places like Amazon and other companies put the prices up to cover the cost of the tariffs? So he keeps putting tariffs on other countries but the American people are the ones paying anyway? 

[Lionator]

2 hours ago, Sampson said:

I don’t understand how you can still not take Trump for his word at this point. US already has the right to unlimited troops in Greenland, it’s part of NATO and Denmark already agreed to unlimited US bases. That deal you are talking Denmark has already said they’ve agreed to.

 

This is  about the US invading Denmark and Europe so they can annex land (and as a very coincidental side note own minerals important to building AI data centres). Trump is very clear about all this and as usual people want to bury their heads in the sand whilst he continuously shows us you should take him for his word.

Yes you call his bluff like Xi, Modi and Lula do. The term ‘taco’ exists for a reason. Europe has to stay strong, united and call his bluff, otherwise we might as well pack it all in. He will move onto something else next week. He rarely follows through on anything remotely meaningful if anything at all.  

Edited 17 January by Lionator

[CornwallFox]

As mighty as the US is, it's actually outgunned in terms of personnel, equipment, aircraft and ships Vs NATO. I don't for one second think anything will happen militarily but maybe allies need to move significant amounts to Greenland, which isn't ideal when Russia in Ukraine but the Russians have half destroyed their own military in the last few years too.

Then the EU needs to talk openly about dumping American debt, might focus a few minds. The EU is an economic superpower, they could sink the American economy in minutes. Obviously I'm not suggesting they do, just suggesting they need to convey strength as it's all trump takes notice of. 

Don't wait, just do it now. The bloke is taking the world for fools and attempting to bully allies. The time to be extremely clear is now.

[Lionator]

It is very funny that in his ‘truth’ he talks about the US not controlling Greenland in apocalyptic terms then just slaps 10% tariffs on some European countries. 

[Lionator]

23 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

As mighty as the US is, it's actually outgunned in terms of personnel, equipment, aircraft and ships Vs NATO. I don't for one second think anything will happen militarily but maybe allies need to move significant amounts to Greenland, which isn't ideal when Russia in Ukraine but the Russians have half destroyed their own military in the last few years too.

Then the EU needs to talk openly about dumping American debt, might focus a few minds. The EU is an economic superpower, they could sink the American economy in minutes. Obviously I'm not suggesting they do, just suggesting they need to convey strength as it's all trump takes notice of. 

Don't wait, just do it now. The bloke is taking the world for fools and attempting to bully allies. The time to be extremely clear is now.

Unfortunately the US is NATO. It’s not just tanks and ships, it’s satellites, intelligence and electronic warfare, all of which the US controls within NATO. Fortunately US generals know better and will talk the president out of anything too extreme. 

[AS78UK]

Europe (including the UK) need to slap reciprocal tariffs back on US Goods coming here.   If we don't then he will continue to use the threat of tariffs.  

 

Appreciate that everyone thinks the consumer pays, but the reality is that companies won't pass the full wack of tariffs on the US consumer, they're normally spread the increased cost across the rest of the markets that company operates in or they swallow some of the cost if they can afford too.   

 

If the orange guy can do that to UK businesses not sure why we wouldn't do the same back the US businesses.   

[Spiritwalker]

This is where all the kowtowing to this guy has got us it doesn’t work.

[Free Falling Foxes]

This Trump fella really is a bit potty isn't he?

I find it difficult to imagine he'll see out his presidency. Someone, somehow must have a word and get him removed, or at the very least tone him down a lot. 

Something will 'round' on him.

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Ok well not many options which is why he’s getting away with it? 

Again, assuming this to be true, firstly I'm not sure why what Starmer says or doesn't say or does or doesn't do matters so much to you in that case given that everything he could or would say or do leads to the same outcome, and secondly I'm not sure "sorry mate, there's nothing we could do, we had no options" is the best explanation to offer to the Greenlanders in the near future and a lot more people in the slightly further future if everything goes pear-shaped should Trump run amok. Not sure they'd really accept it as much of an excuse.

 

Thankfully, I think there is options, such as reciprocal tariffs, debt dumping and other economic measures that would act as a potent answer, but only if applied across a united front that includes Europe and a large chunk of the Anglosphere that isn't the US. Unity will be critical.

 

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Unfortunately the US is NATO. It’s not just tanks and ships, it’s satellites, intelligence and electronic warfare, all of which the US controls within NATO. Fortunately US generals know better and will talk the president out of anything too extreme. 

The mean weakness in this matter (if not being good at war is a weakness, anyway) that the US has isn't military, it's political. They have shown from recent conflicts that they lack the political will to keep going once the cost in money and blood rises to a degree that enough people there are uncomfortable with.

 

That's why both the North Vietnamese and the Afghan Taliban ended up winning their contests by default, because they simply waited for the US to run out of that political will.

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Sampson said:

With all sincerity, I genuinely hope a lot of the right in UK and Europe who tied themself to Trump, isolationism and country first and unironically use the term “Trump derangement syndrome” are now are starting to realise what all this actually means in practice. 

And the really sad thing was that all of this was so, so obviously predictable a decade ago.

 

I think a lot of those people simply wanted to see people they consider "other" hurt and suffer (and, to be honest, I think anyone who still holds the above beliefs absolutely does, there can be no other motivation now). What they didn't realise is that hurt could and would end up visiting them, too. 

[Heathrow fox]

1 hour ago, CornwallFox said:

As mighty as the US is, it's actually outgunned in terms of personnel, equipment, aircraft and ships Vs NATO. I don't for one second think anything will happen militarily but maybe allies need to move significant amounts to Greenland, which isn't ideal when Russia in Ukraine but the Russians have half destroyed their own military in the last few years too.

Then the EU needs to talk openly about dumping American debt, might focus a few minds. The EU is an economic superpower, they could sink the American economy in minutes. Obviously I'm not suggesting they do, just suggesting they need to convey strength as it's all trump takes notice of. 

Don't wait, just do it now. The bloke is taking the world for fools and attempting to bully allies. The time to be extremely clear is now.

Denmark are in the process,or are close to completing the upgrade of their airforce.Replacing their F16’s with the newer,again mainly US built F35’s.They were also going to donate their spare ammo stocks to Ukraine.You couldn’t make this up.

[Dahnsouff]

10 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

As mighty as the US is, it's actually outgunned in terms of personnel, equipment, aircraft and ships Vs NATO. I don't for one second think anything will happen militarily but maybe allies need to move significant amounts to Greenland, which isn't ideal when Russia in Ukraine but the Russians have half destroyed their own military in the last few years too.

Then the EU needs to talk openly about dumping American debt, might focus a few minds. The EU is an economic superpower, they could sink the American economy in minutes. Obviously I'm not suggesting they do, just suggesting they need to convey strength as it's all trump takes notice of. 

Don't wait, just do it now. The bloke is taking the world for fools and attempting to bully allies. The time to be extremely clear is now.

As much as i agree, I am not convinced escalation achieves a great deal. Yes we may open the US's eyes to the comparative economic power of Europe but I doubt they are closed, more ignored as most of this has little to do with Europe beyond it being the backdrop.

 

Europe is very much an anti-Trump America in as much that we are willingly operating within our guidelines, within our self imposed limits and generally operate on longer term for the collective good of the block.

 

Any aggressive responses just fuel the grievances he imagines or at last projects to the American people or more specifically his  people. Collective messaging and unity in response is Europe's kryptonite to Trump, and it is best delivered in a quiet, measured, non-provocative manner, as it gives him little room for outrage, which he requires.

 

As much as it would be great to call him for what he is publically, it is self harm.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

As much as i agree, I am not convinced escalation achieves a great deal. Yes we may open the US's eyes to the comparative economic power of Europe but I doubt they are closed, more ignored as most of this has little to do with Europe beyond it being the backdrop.

 

Europe is very much an anti-Trump America in as much that we are willingly operating within our guidelines, within our self imposed limits and generally operate on longer term for the collective good of the block.

 

Any aggressive responses just fuel the grievances he imagines or at last projects to the American people or more specifically his  people. Collective messaging and unity in response is Europe's kryptonite to Trump, and it is best delivered in a quiet, measured, non-provocative manner, as it gives him little room for outrage, which he requires.

 

As much as it would be great to call him for what he is publically, it is self harm.

This is reasonable and has been the playbook so far from most of the European and Anglosphere nations. 

 

It has gotten us to this stage, so has it really been effective in terms of neutralising the threat represented?

 

The current US administration, and those that follow them like a cult, are going to do what they want no matter what diplomatic response is given to them. If they need outrage or grievance to justify their action, they simply make it up, lie about it, and then proceed. They cannot or will not be reasoned with. 

 

If that isn't obvious now, I'm not sure when it will be. 

 

A different approach is surely needed.

Edited 18 January by leicsmac

[Super_horns]

Certainly does test that "special relationship" the USA and UK are supposed to have.

 

Presumably Farage thinks Trump is wonderful though? 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Certainly does test that "special relationship" the USA and UK are supposed to have.

 

Presumably Farage thinks Trump is wonderful though? 

From what I can tell his current line of thought is "steady on old chum, I like you and what you're doing but what you're doing right now doesn't make it easy for my popularity".

[leicsmac]

It will be interesting to see what both Tice and Speaker Johnson say live on camera about all this today. 

[Dahnsouff]

44 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This is reasonable and has been the playbook so far from most of the European and Anglosphere nations. 

 

It has gotten us to this stage, so has it really been effective in terms of neutralising the threat represented?

 

The current US administration, and those that follow them like a cult, are going to do what they want no matter what diplomatic response is given to them. If they need outrage or grievance to justify their action, they simply make it up, lie about it, and then proceed. They cannot or will not be reasoned with. 

 

If that isn't obvious now, I'm not sure when it will be. 

 

A different approach is surely needed.

Understandable and expected reaction to be honest, as to some degree this type of rhetoric or statecraft should not be allowed to stand, especially amongst the more traditional seasoned nations of Europe. To react is to legitimise the claims, to negotiate in the open is choosing to play at the away ground.

 

It has been this way for decades and to now pivot into the bombastic politics Trump craves is to gift him the floor, to ask him for terms.

 

I remain convinced Europe's strength is in unity, and rational rhetoric, as this is the only option that does not shift this game beyond our control.

 

Unsure on the bolder section, it feels quite possible there will be a reaction to ths presidency, not return to previous norms perhaps but stepping away from the precipice of constant conflict, rhetorical or militarily in favour of a more domestically slanted period.

 

All that and I never mentioned Chamberlain once. Ah f...