General News Thread

[Sly]

So has the USA banned a load of countries from coming into the US, that feature at the World Cup? 
 

So fans from Haiti, Iran, Ivory Coast and Senegal can’t attend. 

[splinterdream]

8 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

The alternative is literally anyone other than a bloke still whingeing about how bad the country is 10 years after getting everything he wanted. And still offering no solutions 10 years after getting everything he wanted.

Having listened to some interviews with a few Conservative MP's who were to the right of a Conservative party very much to the left, they argued they couldn't get anything done due to the blob,and it was impossible to get rid of the blob, as there wasn't too many Tory wets who were fine with it. 

People gave Boris an 80 seat majority because the wanted an end to mass immigration and 'woke' politics, instead they got mass immigration on steroids, a double down on net zero, lock down, non crime hate incidents, the online safety bill, and the list goes on.

So whats the alternative?

More of the most authoritarian government we've ever had, the most despised PM we've ever had? Not likely.

Trust the Tories again? Possibly if they get rid of the wets, but thats not likely.

Ed Davey? Polanski? Corbyn and Zultana? 

 

[Voll Blau]

19 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

Having listened to some interviews with a few Conservative MP's who were to the right of a Conservative party very much to the left, they argued they couldn't get anything done due to the blob,and it was impossible to get rid of the blob, as there wasn't too many Tory wets who were fine with it. 

People gave Boris an 80 seat majority because the wanted an end to mass immigration and 'woke' politics, instead they got mass immigration on steroids, a double down on net zero, lock down, non crime hate incidents, the online safety bill, and the list goes on.

So whats the alternative?

More of the most authoritarian government we've ever had, the most despised PM we've ever had? Not likely.

Trust the Tories again? Possibly if they get rid of the wets, but thats not likely.

Ed Davey? Polanski? Corbyn and Zultana? 

 

Of course. The blob.

 

Thanks for opening my eyes.

[splinterdream]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

Of course. The blob.

 

Thanks for opening my eyes.

I wasn't looking to open anyone's eyes, I was hoping to read an argument for the alternatives by you or those bitching about reform.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

I wasn't looking to open anyone's eyes, I was hoping to read an argument for the alternatives by you or those bitching about reform.

The argument is as follows:

 

Any of the alternatives (apart from possibly the Tories) will at least give a chance to prevent the likely collapse of human civilisation by actually treating issues regarding the biosphere with something approaching the seriousness they deserve. Every other policy concern has less human (and other) lives at stake as a consequence and therefore strictly pragmatically is of lesser importance. 

 

But hey, if the future beyond line of sight both spatially and temporally doesn't concern a person, that's their prerogative. 

[Corky]

Amazing how these people who had no influence on Government at the time never flagged it up or resigned.

[Lionator]

The way things are shaping up, I think there’s going to be a window of opportunity in 2028 for a leftist candidate (for their standard) in the states and then early/mid 30’s there will be a left revival in Western Europe. It cannot keep going on like this. 
 

Incidentally if you look at economic growth in Western Europe, Spain is clearly performing best and they have a leftist government although their employment stats, while improving, are still hilariously bad.

[splinterdream]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The argument is as follows:

 

Any of the alternatives (apart from possibly the Tories) will at least give a chance to prevent the likely collapse of human civilisation by actually treating issues regarding the biosphere with something approaching the seriousness they deserve. Every other policy concern has less human (and other) lives at stake as a consequence and therefore strictly pragmatically is of lesser importance. 

 

But hey, if the future beyond line of sight both spatially and temporally doesn't concern a person, that's their prerogative. 

Obviously I wasn't looking for in depth policy by policy analysis, but that word salad says absolutely nothing, no offense.

We currently are living with one of the alternatives and everyday you think it can't get any worse, and it does, and the other alternatives are arguing for more extreme than this shower we have now. 

I guess it's all about what your vision of a better future is, how that can be achieved, and who is best to implement it, 

[splinterdream]

22 minutes ago, Corky said:

Amazing how these people who had no influence on Government at the time never flagged it up or resigned.

Not really, i'm sure those ministers despite being frustrated by the civil servants, thought it better to battle away rather than walk away, or that resigning was pointless, or they just liked the prestige of being a cabinet minister 

[Voll Blau]

48 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

I wasn't looking to open anyone's eyes, I was hoping to read an argument for the alternatives by you or those bitching about reform.

There's no point arguing with anyone who gleefully believes in whackjob conspiracy theories like the blob.

 

Hope are nige makes this country everything you ever dreamed it would be x

[Corky]

15 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

Not really, i'm sure those ministers despite being frustrated by the civil servants, thought it better to battle away rather than walk away, or that resigning was pointless, or they just liked the prestige of being a cabinet minister 

Or went along with it and re-wrote history when it suited them?

[Samilktray]

6 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

There's no point arguing with anyone who gleefully believes in whackjob conspiracy theories like the blob.

 

Hope are nige makes this country everything you ever dreamed it would be x

What is the blob?

[splinterdream]

2 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

There's no point arguing with anyone who gleefully believes in whackjob conspiracy theories like the blob.

 

Hope are nige makes this country everything you ever dreamed it would be x

Hate to break it to you, i am not an MP, have never been a cabinet minister, I have only listened to the testimony of those having been in tbose positions, who inexplicably were unable to get policies through, and the ministers aren't the only ones who have suggested the like.

I, like you am just a voter that votes with the best intentions. I wont be sure who I will vote for until nearer the time but it'd be for anyone that prevents Labour/libs/greens/YP from getting in 

 

[Voll Blau]

8 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

What is the blob?

The nonsense conspiracy that people who voted for/like...

 

- Brexit (happened)

- Boris (became PM with an 80-seat majority)

- Trump (now serving second term as president)

 

...think is stopping them from getting anything they want.

[splinterdream]

8 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

What is the blob?

Its the suggestion that we have a left wing civil service that acts to frustrate and prevent those to the right from getting things done. Some say a civil service instead by Blair 

[Samilktray]

9 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

The nonsense conspiracy that people who voted for/like...

 

- Brexit (happened)

- Boris (became PM with an 80-seat majority)

- Trump (now serving second term as president)

 

...think is stopping them from getting anything they want.

Yeah just had a read and it does sound daft to be fair 

[FrankieADZ]

tbf most of the MPs dont live in the real world etc

like non of the policies they do ever affect them etc

 

 

[StanSP]

28 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

Its the suggestion that we have a left wing civil service that acts to frustrate and prevent those to the right from getting things done. Some say a civil service instead by Blair 

For good reason. 

[splinterdream]

4 minutes ago, StanSP said:

For good reason. 

Civil servents are supposed to be impartial and serve the government that has been democratically elected. So if it is left wing,  as some ministers and those having worked in govt have said, then no its not a good thing. Some of those who came into conflict with the civil service. 

 

Priti Patel

Dominic Raab

Suella Braverman

David Davis 

Liz Truss

Theresa May

Dominic Cummings

Michael Gove

 

Of course the civil service wasn't the only reason conservative voters were frustrated with the last Conservative govt, and the reason why they didnt turn out to vote and why we have a labour govt now 

 

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, Sly said:

So has the USA banned a load of countries from coming into the US, that feature at the World Cup? 
 

So fans from Haiti, Iran, Ivory Coast and Senegal can’t attend. 

Is this a pale reflection of the 1936 Olympics?

[kenny]

29 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

Civil servents are supposed to be impartial and serve the government that has been democratically elected. So if it is left wing,  as some ministers and those having worked in govt have said, then no its not a good thing. Some of those who came into conflict with the civil service. 

 

Priti Patel

Dominic Raab

Suella Braverman

David Davis 

Liz Truss

Theresa May

Dominic Cummings

Michael Gove

 

Of course the civil service wasn't the only reason conservative voters were frustrated with the last Conservative govt, and the reason why they didnt turn out to vote and why we have a labour govt now 

 

Streeting, Starmer and McFadden have all complained about the civil service as well.

[CornwallFox]

1 hour ago, splinterdream said:

Its the suggestion that we have a left wing civil service that acts to frustrate and prevent those to the right from getting things done. Some say a civil service instead by Blair 

What absolute cobblers. 

The civil service simply follows the laws passed by governments. 

Do senior civil servants provide advice on legal issues and other considerations, well yes, you need some expertise supporting policy. 

But the idea the civil service stops things is just really lazy right wing nonsense that I'm amazed anybody doesn't instantly see through.

[Jattdogg]

3 hours ago, Sly said:

So has the USA banned a load of countries from coming into the US, that feature at the World Cup? 
 

So fans from Haiti, Iran, Ivory Coast and Senegal can’t attend. 

Who wants to go to that shit hole anyways.

[Robo61]

7 hours ago, splinterdream said:

Civil servents are supposed to be impartial and serve the government that has been democratically elected. So if it is left wing,  as some ministers and those having worked in govt have said, then no its not a good thing. Some of those who came into conflict with the civil service. 

 

Priti Patel

Dominic Raab

Suella Braverman

David Davis 

Liz Truss

Theresa May

Dominic Cummings

Michael Gove

 

Of course the civil service wasn't the only reason conservative voters were frustrated with the last Conservative govt, and the reason why they didnt turn out to vote and why we have a labour govt now 

 

14 years that rabble were in government, more than sufficient time to curb the power of the CS, if it was thought necessary. The truth is Civil Servants are employed to tell truth to power, so when told  some of their bat shit ideas were simply not possible without breaking the laws of the land they cry it was not me voters but them damn civil servants.

Edited 16 January by Robo61

[Sampson]

56 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

Civil servents are supposed to be impartial and serve the government that has been democratically elected. So if it is left wing,  as some ministers and those having worked in govt have said, then no its not a good thing. Some of those who came into conflict with the civil service. 

 

Priti Patel

Dominic Raab

Suella Braverman

David Davis 

Liz Truss

Theresa May

Dominic Cummings

Michael Gove

 

Of course the civil service wasn't the only reason conservative voters were frustrated with the last Conservative govt, and the reason why they didnt turn out to vote and why we have a labour govt now 

 

Ok to give you the reasoning as to why I think Farage is way worse than any other option, which is what you asked for. 

 

I categorically disagree with you here. The civil service’s role is that it supposed to uphold the law and tell the government what they can and cannot do within the law, it is not supposed to serve the government - as you said, it should be impartial - that means being impartial against the government when the government is in conflict with the law. The civil service should be in conflict with the government and tell them what they can and can’t do by the letter of the law.

 

We live in a democracy. A democracy is not simply about voting, otherwise North Korea, Russia and Belarus would all be democracies - a democracy is a form of government where the ultimate power is in institutions not individuals - the government should categorically not be allowed to do just what they like - that’s called authoritarianism. 
 

The civil service is one of the 2 most important checks and balances in a democracy along with the legal system.

 

And this is exactly why populists go after both the civil service and the legal system as well as international institutions so they can dismantle democracy and institutions to give themselves power to do what they like - the populist playbook that Balsanaro and Erdogan popularised in 2014 that the likes of Trump and Farage both follow. This is why Trump goes after the legal system, the civil service and every international institution going - and Farage uses all the same language - this is why Farage’s #1 ambition is to leave the ECHR and ECJ because unlike the US we have supra-national institutions in Europe built after WW2 and designed to protect us from our own governments and the ECJ has already shown itself influential in Poland by stopping populist governments filling their Supreme Court with people who’ll just bend to their will (as Trump has successfully done).

 

I would also add that it’s also very telling that all these foreign AI tech giants like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel are also supporting these populist  parties like Reform and Trump or the AfD because they know that taking down the legal institutions and getting in the pockets of people who want more power will let them have the freedom to run riot with AI. And that’s way scarier and going to do way more damage to both our culture and job market than immigration ever will.

 

The law and civil service is there to protect us all as citizens. I understand people want to reduce immigration and don’t like cancel culture - but I really don’t think gutting the institutions that hold up democracy and giving the government the power to do what they like and gutting the civil service and legal systems which protect us is worth the trade off to do that - with the added bonus of all these foreign AI and social media tech bros also bring allowed to do what they like to our culture and job market, not by 100 fold.

 

That is my main argument as to why Farage is so much a worse option  than the others. I don’t think you genuinely want to live in a country where the civil service, legal systems and international institutions are subservient to the government., that is how it works in Russia and this is exactly how we end up with a system where we have no protections to standing against some nutjob in charge

 

Look I was always told this - think about the systems you’re creating with the worst possible leader you can personally imagine being in charge of them. if you hate Corbyn and Sultana for example- then think about them in power with this kind of state you want to create with a gutted legal system and civil service and where we’ve got no supra-national protections from the ECHR or ECJ and they’re essentially given free roles to do whatever they hell they like.

Edited 16 January by Sampson