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Lionator

General News Thread

By Lionator, in General Chat

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

I honestly couldn't disagree more. 

 

Powell was talking about immigrants from the Commonwealth being a racial threat to the native white population, predicting inevitable racial conflict and bloodshed in the future just by their mere existence in this country. Starmer didn't say anything near to that and it really is offensive to suggest he did. He argued the opposite about immigration in fact, saying:

 

"Migration is part of Britain’s national story. We talked last week about the great rebuilding of this country after the war; migrants were part of that, and they make a massive contribution today. You will never hear me denigrate that."

“Britain must compete for the best talent in the world in science, in technology, in healthcare.”

 

What his speech set out was reforming a system that had been deliberately broken by the Tories and Brexit, bringing down immigration to a sustainable level after the Tories more than quadrupled it, and restricting access to people with skills in areas the economy actually needs.

 

That couldn't be more different from what Powell said. 

 

One was warning of an existential racial threat by blaming immigrants' even being here as the problem; the other is literally celebrating and welcoming migration but in terms that actively benefit our country's economy and social cohesion, blaming the broken system for the problems we face and not people migrating here. 

 

I struggle to see what's wrong with that. 

 

Where?

 

Seriously, where? What am I missing?

 

"Let me put it this way: Nations depend on rules – fair rules. Sometimes they’re written down, often they’re not, but either way, they give shape to our values. They guide us towards our rights, of course, but also our responsibilities, the obligations we owe to one another. Now, in a diverse nation like ours, and I celebrate that, these rules become even more important. Without them, we risk becoming an island of strangers, not a nation that walks forward together."

 

'Island of strangers' refers to US, what WE would become to each other if the rules that shaped our values were not kept in tact. That's nothing to do with migration or immigrants, that's about the system itself, about the structure of our society that has been literally been broken down over the last 14 years by the Tories in an act of deliberate ideological sabotage. 

 

They were arguing completely different things, with completely opposing ideological standpoints, painting very, very different pictures about Britain's future. 

 

I wish I could see what you see but on the other hand I'm glad I don't. I go back to my original point - I'm so ****ing tired of everything in our culture being framed on the extremes of left and right. It needs to stop. 

You are completely correct.  The left are mental!  Only joking, honestly the lack of any consideration of others viewpoint is exhausting.  Immigration can be both good an bad, and saying that doesn't make you racist, xenophobic or a bad person.  I say it and I am an immigrant to Australia.

  • Like 1
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, MaidstoneFox said:

Don't want to go into social history too much here, but the main thing that has changed is the means of communication and the incredible speed of the news cycle. Yesterday's news used to be tomorrow's chip paper, but now it's constantly updated and from multiple sources. Immigration has always and will always be a fuse for social unrest and a gateway for political opportunists. Labour is I think more seen as a political elite or autocratic non-ideological government now by lots of people, whereas in the past they had closer trade union and traditional working class roots. In that sense they are seen as interchangeable and just as complicit for immigration problems as the previous government.

If this is true and class ideology is the key driver here, then I wonder why people from an equal or lower socioeconomic background are being targeted at the present time on the matter, simply because they happen to be a different skin colour or come from a different "place".

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Some of those Subs can be pretty meaty.  You would be mad to throw anything at a US cop, honestly he is lucky they didn't shoot him on the spot.

Yeah, true. Person must have been white otherwise they'd be another statistic right now. :ph34r:

 

And to think this all started because some supremacist YouTuber goon in favour with the current government got a kicking.

Edited by leicsmac
Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

You are completely correct.  The left are mental!  Only joking, honestly the lack of any consideration of others viewpoint is exhausting.  Immigration can be both good an bad, and saying that doesn't make you racist, xenophobic or a bad person.  I say it and I am an immigrant to Australia.

It is weird though how a lot of people who don't want immigrants are also against sending aid abroad. The whole reason we have immigration problems is lack of resources in foreign lands. You (plural, not you Jon) call Britain 'broken'? How very myopic! Cast your view around the world.

 

Of course, a lot of said aid is misused by corrupt governments (and again, people call our politicians corrupt lol), but it just shows the size of the problem.

 

Short of sticking warships in the Channel... but then they'd come via Ireland or across the North Sea.

 

Maybe we should have an amount of pride that so many people see us as a good place to come? I dunno, it's a massive problem, difficult to solve, mainly because self-interest trumps cooperation.

 

P.S. The English language really needs a you plural/impersonal like just about every other language. Would solve a lot of misunderstandings.

Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

It is weird though how a lot of people who don't want immigrants are also against sending aid abroad. The whole reason we have immigration problems is lack of resources in foreign lands. You (plural, not you Jon) call Britain 'broken'? How very myopic! Cast your view around the world.

 

Of course, a lot of said aid is misused by corrupt governments (and again, people call our politicians corrupt lol), but it just shows the size of the problem.

 

Short of sticking warships in the Channel... but then they'd come via Ireland or across the North Sea.

 

Maybe we should have an amount of pride that so many people see us as a good place to come? I dunno, it's a massive problem, difficult to solve, mainly because self-interest trumps cooperation.

 

P.S. The English language really needs a you plural/impersonal like just about every other language. Would solve a lot of misunderstandings.

Its not that illogical tbh, they don't want to pay to look after others when they see poverty / lack of investment at home.  Mind you some of them dont want to pay for that either.

I also think ones understanding of poverty changes a bit if you venture out of the wealthy western world and into other parts.

 

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Torquay Gunner said:

The new US Attorney for the District of Columbia Jeanine Pirro is another ex Fox News sycophant and is of course as mad as a box of frogs. 

Those qualities, and/or focused and determined sociopathy, appear to be a prerequisite for high or mid level government work over there right now. 

kenny

kenny

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Rachel from accounts is destroying are economy. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/aug/14/uk-economy-avoids-flatlining-slowdown-tax-rises-trump-trade-war

Its good news. It still feels rough out there though, recruitment hasn't been this easy since 2007 and people are struggling for work. 

 

Hearing of quite a few being made redundant as well. Lots on linkedin are struggling for new roles.

 

Hopefully the employment issues are just a blip.

  • Like 1
Muzzy_no7

Muzzy_no7

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah, true. Person must have been white otherwise they'd be another statistic right now. :ph34r:

 

And to think this all started because some supremacist YouTuber goon in favour with the current government got a kicking.

Don’t start 😂

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Don’t start 😂

Tongue firmly in cheek on that one, hence the emoji afterwards. 

 

The above being said...once again though, it's pretty unreal that the person - whoever they are - likely only crossed paths with the fuzz because of a truly sensational piece of gaslighting and falsehood from the powers that be over there. 

Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, kenny said:

Its good news. It still feels rough out there though, recruitment hasn't been this easy since 2007 and people are struggling for work. 

 

Hearing of quite a few being made redundant as well. Lots on linkedin are struggling for new roles.

 

Hopefully the employment issues are just a blip.

Nah.

 

If you can be replaced by a machine/robot/computer, you will be.

 

We're building a technocracy where those who have the machines (read "money") have the power... and more money.

 

Until they've got so much money that no one can give them money, then what happens?

  • Like 2
Dr The Singh

Dr The Singh

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, kenny said:

Its good news. It still feels rough out there though, recruitment hasn't been this easy since 2007 and people are struggling for work. 

 

Hearing of quite a few being made redundant as well. Lots on linkedin are struggling for new roles.

 

Hopefully the employment issues are just a blip.

Naa, I was supposed to recruit 10 for my dept, all in the bin.  Replacement of leavers or not being replaced.

 

Basically Reeves budget, cost my dept nearly a £400k , someone has to pay.  Investors need to be paid amd rightfully so.

Tommy G

Tommy G

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah, true. Person must have been white otherwise they'd be another statistic right now. :ph34r:

 

And to think this all started because some supremacist YouTuber goon in favour with the current government got a kicking.

Surprised this comment hasn’t been removed as you are saying there is racial discrimination on the part of police force due to the colour of your skin. 

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Surprised this comment hasn’t been removed as you are saying there is racial discrimination on the part of police force due to the colour of your skin. 

The US police forces in a few places including DC have been discriminatory along lines of skin colour? That's a matter of record that is easily citable. (That being said, again, this particular comment was more tongue in cheek.)

 

Of course, the moderators here are always free to do as they like with no complaint from me.

 

Edit: If there's any more you'd like to comment on our last bit of back-and-forth, I'd be interested. :) 

 

 

Edited by leicsmac
  • Like 1
Torquay Gunner

Torquay Gunner

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

The US police forces in a few places including DC have been discriminatory along lines of skin colour? That's a matter of record that is easily citable. (That being said, again, this particular comment was more tongue in cheek.)

 

Of course, the moderators here are always free to do as they like with no complaint from me.

 

Edit: If there's any more you'd like to comment on our last bit of back-and-forth, I'd be interested. :) 

 

 

Yes and like forever,  it’s just that since the invention of the mobile phone some of this everyday racial bias has been captured for posterity on camera. 

  • Like 1
Free Falling Foxes

Free Falling Foxes

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

In a rather more bright and amusing fuzz story, apparently some UK lady police officers have been picking off some low-tier misogynists by posing as joggers:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/undercover-police-joggers-catcalling-surrey-women-harassment-b2806738.html

 

Top tip: if you don't want to get a tap on the shoulder as a knuckle-dragging harasser of women, don't act like one. 

Shopkeeper: I called you over 2 hours ago to report shoplifting in progress in my store

Police: I'm sorry sir but we had no spare officers to send to you.

Shopkeeper: What the heck are they all doing?

Well, for example, two WPCs were in plain clothes jogging around the area seeing if they drew any catcalling. If they did, they then contact other officers nearby, who then speak the person responsible.

Shopkeeper: Seriously?

Police: Yes sir. We have evidence that such actions may cause offence to some women.

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Shopkeeper: I called you over 2 hours ago to report shoplifting in progress in my store

Police: I'm sorry sir but we had no spare officers to send to you.

Shopkeeper: What the heck are they all doing?

Well, for example, two WPCs were in plain clothes jogging around the area seeing if they drew any catcalling. If they did, they then contact other officers nearby, who then speak the person responsible.

Shopkeeper: Seriously?

Police: Yes sir. We have evidence that such actions may cause offence to some women.

... is there anything for this beyond the theoretical or is it just a very cogent and structured example of a Appeal to Bigger Problems Fallacy?

 

NB. I'd be interested in hearing what women think of this matter given they're the ones having the trouble.

Free Falling Foxes

Free Falling Foxes

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

... is there anything for this beyond the theoretical or is it just a very cogent and structured example of a Appeal to Bigger Problems Fallacy?

 

NB. I'd be interested in hearing what women think of this matter given they're the ones having the trouble.

It is an imagined conversation I posted, of course, but inspired after what I heard during a BBC 5Live phone-in recently.

Shopkeeper after shopkeeper after shopkeeper, calling in and all telling the same story, that shoplifting is increasingly NOT investigated/pursued by the police

 

Sadly shop staff, often including women and older folk, are threatened.

This is a very real, actual threat that has happened and nothing, or at best very little, action from law enforcement as a consequence.

 

The article you linked to, actually quotes one of the WPCs stating that catcalling  '..... can make someone feel really quite uncomfortable.'

 

Shop staff have been made to feel a damn site more than 'uncomfortable'

 

Re your last point: I have asked women I know their thoughts on this and typically they either just shrug their shoulders, say they ignore it, give the person some stick back, some have said it's never happened to them and, finally, I even had women say they have been quite flattered by a wolf whistle.

 

 

Edited by Free Falling Foxes
  • Like 2
Foxdiamond

Foxdiamond

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

It is an imagined conversation I posted, of course, but inspired after what I heard during a BBC 5Live phone-in recently.

Shopkeeper after shopkeeper after shopkeeper, calling in and all telling the same story, that shoplifting is increasingly NOT investigated/pursued by the police

 

Sadly shop staff, often including women and older folk, are threatened.

This is a very real, actual threat that has happened and nothing, or at best very little, action from law enforcement as a consequence.

 

The article you linked to, actually quotes one of the WPCs stating that catcalling  '..... can make someone feel really quite uncomfortable.'

 

Shop staff have been made to feel a damn site more than 'uncomfortable'

 

Re your last point: I have asked women I know their thoughts on this and typically they either just shrug their shoulders, say they ignore it, give the person some stick back, some have said it's never happened to them and, finally, I even had women say they have been quite flattered by a wolf whistle.

 

 

Putting aside the officers on jogging duty the lack of action over shop lifting is barmy when you consider the implications for the shop keepers and staff and the rest of us with increasing crime. 

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

It is an imagined conversation I posted, of course, but inspired after what I heard during a BBC 5Live phone-in recently.

Shopkeeper after shopkeeper after shopkeeper, calling in and all telling the same story, that shoplifting is increasingly NOT investigated/pursued by the police

 

Sadly shop staff, often including women and older folk, are threatened.

This is a very real, actual threat that has happened and nothing, or at best very little, action from law enforcement as a consequence.

 

The article you linked to, actually quotes one of the WPCs stating that catcalling  '..... can make someone feel really quite uncomfortable.'

 

Shop staff have been made to feel a damn site more than 'uncomfortable'

 

Re your last point: I have asked women I know their thoughts on this and typically they either just shrug their shoulders, say they ignore it, give the person some stick back, some have said it's never happened to them and, finally, I even had women say they have been quite flattered by a wolf whistle.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

Putting aside the officers on jogging duty the lack of action over shop lifting is barmy when you consider the implications for the shop keepers and staff and the rest of us with increasing crime. 

Fair enough, so it is Appeal to Bigger Problems then based on anecdotes, then? I can see why that would be compelling, given the current environment.

 

Speaking of anecdotes, the women I know that I've talked to have indicated that they (and every other woman) have experienced harassment of this type, and while they do mostly have to just brush it off it would be nice if some blokes would acknowledge that it's 2025, not 1965, and actually pick their clubs off the ground rather than dragging them around. I'm inclined to agree with them, given that there are so many better ways to express admiration that don't involve deliberately trying to make a person uncomfortable, and so I'm not altogether sad that at least some police resources are being used to remind these blokes that the freedom to unsolicited harassment sometimes comes with the freedom to take the consequences.

Edited by leicsmac
  • Like 2
Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

 

Re your last point: I have asked women I know their thoughts on this and typically they either just shrug their shoulders, say they ignore it, give the person some stick back, some have said it's never happened to them and, finally, I even had women say they have been quite flattered by a wolf whistle.

 

 

Sticks and stones, etc

 

What baffles me is that we live in a world full of CCTV, mobile phones, invisible laser beams... and yet it's easier to nick stuff and get away with it.

 

Then you have the enormous amount of money that speed cameras raise, money that 30 years ago needed to be obtained by PCs actually going out and catching people speeding and yet we don't have the funds to have enough police. How does that work? 

 

When speed cameras were introduced, it was to free up officers so they could be dealing with more serious crime. Well that's not happened, so where's the money gone?

 

Seems like the police concentrate on "easy" crime so that the data figures look good (a plague for almost all big businesses these days).

  • Like 1

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