Marti Cifuentes appointed new manager

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, Fox92 said:

When he joined I said it’s Paulo Sousa all over again, but I believe it. Lots of talk but same thing over and over again. 

Im thinking the same.  I don't think he has the mentality to make the club changes we need.  He is too nice.

[Dr The Singh]

An manager of quality that see's his players not respect the fans would punish them.

[ts_1010]

I can accept a season of mid-table mediocrity. I can accept a frustrating grind of a season.

 

I can't accept a squad that is so obviously lacking in key areas, where the manager does not get backing despite player sales. I can't accept players who obviously want to be  elsewhere, being picked to play. 

 

I can't see a plan to develop the next spine of the team, if they won't replace Vardy, who they knew was leaving a year ago. 

 

We sit on a knife edge as a club.

 

Either we can rebuild properly, cleverly, balancing the books and cutting out the dead weight. Developing players from our own academy, blending them with young talents carefully selected to supplement the team. Using this season to build for the next.

 

Or, we mismanage this crop of young talent coming through, stay stuck in the bottom half of the league with a disfunctional squad. PSR will force us to sell off our young players in steady, soul crushing installments.

 

 

[honeybradger]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

So you have knowledge that these three should be taken from Martin’s options for his own good?

It's pretty clear that those three are problematic.

 

Vestergaard has been frozen out under multiple managers.

 

Winks was unbothered for most of last season, got frozen out, didn't celebrate last week and walked down the tunnel instead of coming to the fans today.

 

Faes has wanted out for ages, even announcing his intention to make a departure earlier this year which has failed hilariously (or not so hilariously depending on how much you want him gone). He also has a penchant for blaming his teammates for his own mistakes.

 

The makings of any good manager is how they weed out these sorts of players and build a squad with a proper competitive, focused mentality.

[S1DDO]

Half the squad are overpaid cloggers, he’s not going to sort this out in one transfer window 

[LVFox]

Poor guy has a bloated squad, yet not enough good, committed players to make a starting 11.

 

Encouraging that in both matches so far he’s made subs to change the flow of the match. Happy he’s called them out tonight. 

[FoxesTez]

You have to feel to him. Walked into a circus. 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, honeybradger said:

It's pretty clear that those three are problematic.

 

Vestergaard has been frozen out under multiple managers.

 

Winks was unbothered for most of last season, got frozen out, didn't celebrate last week and walked down the tunnel instead of coming to the fans today.

 

Faes has wanted out for ages, even announcing his intention to make a departure earlier this year which has failed hilariously (or not so hilariously depending on how much you want him gone). He also has a penchant for blaming his teammates for his own mistakes.

 

The makings of any good manager is how they weed out these sorts of players and build a squad with a proper competitive, focused mentality.

But it’s his decision, not yours or mine, or the fans. His. You think he needs our guidance?

[CrazyKopCorner]

23 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

He can only do that with the support of his DoF, Owner and fanbase, do you think Rudders and Top will back him to alienate the likes of Vesty, Soumare, Winks et al to the bomb squad, personally i think not. As fans are we brave to accept a season of ups and downs whilst we trust the academy players, personally I am but accepting that we probably won’t piss the league or even make the play offs I would happily trade to see players like Nelson, Monga, Page, Aluko, Evans and Alves starting every week. 

I think we will if say Hamza and James go this week and we manage to say get rid of Winks and Soumare too by the end of the window. Hopefully we can also bring in a striker and a couple of midfielders. If he plays the youth I think the fans will get behind. We’re fed up of watching the likes of Vesty, BDCR, Soumare etc just not being good enough or not trying 

[honeybradger]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

But it’s his decision, not yours or mine, or the fans. His. You think he needs our guidance?

If he keeps playing or even allowing them to remain in the general vicinity of the squad then I worry about his judgement is all I would say. Maybe 1 out of 3 can stay involved but no more.

 

As a squad we need to be a unit where everyone's got each other's back, not where you have players who are clearly disgruntled and strop off down the tunnel nor players throwing blame around after every goal.

[BeaumontFox]

24 minutes ago, S1DDO said:

Half the squad are overpaid cloggers, he’s not going to sort this out in one transfer window 

I don’t think we’ll begin to see the light until next season when a bunch of contracts expire.

[Spudulike]

It wasn't exactly a bowl of cherries at times under Enzo either. As crap as it was today, it was no worse than Millwall, Plymouth, Bristol City and others that I've tried to forget.  Like to think it's an early wake-up call but that relies on players that have determination and pride. Not seen much of that.

[foxfan92]

10 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

It's pretty clear that those three are problematic.

 

Vestergaard has been frozen out under multiple managers.

 

Winks was unbothered for most of last season, got frozen out, didn't celebrate last week and walked down the tunnel instead of coming to the fans today.

 

Faes has wanted out for ages, even announcing his intention to make a departure earlier this year which has failed hilariously (or not so hilariously depending on how much you want him gone). He also has a penchant for blaming his teammates for his own mistakes.

 

The makings of any good manager is how they weed out these sorts of players and build a squad with a proper competitive, focused mentality.

 

Like you I really want our youth to succeed but I do think you're over estimating how good they'd be thrown straight in to a full season. 

 

We need some experienced players to step up to help guide our youth through and protect them so they can flourish without unnecessary pressure which could stifle their development.

 

The three players you've singled out, they performed better 2 seasons ago under the system Enzo deployed. 

 

I won't defend them, I'm cross with not just their attitude but a number of our players who should be better, but the managers we had last season need to take some responsibility because of the number of players who's attitude stinks. This should be something they should have stopped.

 

It is better to be without disruptive figures who aren't putting the club first.

 

However I'd also argue those three are still playing better than far too many of our other players, and so Cifuentes risks being damned if he plays them and damned if he doesn't. (We should never have signed Vestergaard in the first place, but we're where we are and his passing could possibly be utilised (it's not great but not terrible).

 

It's a sorry state, but the manager has inherited this mess not created it. 

 

I'd argue we've not made any good permanent signings that add to our squad in 18 months or so, with the exception of making Fatawa's move permanent (but this doesn't improve the team we had in the championship last time, merely keeps it with the same personnel, and Bilal.

 

We've lost everyone else who was any good, and replaced them with crap we can't shift.

 

And if we rush the youth in and that backfires, where do we go from there?

 

(Also I'd be interested in who you'd have in the midfield if we did get rid of Winks and weren't able to replace him, remembering we'd be short there for the season?)

[foxfan92]

32 minutes ago, LVFox said:

Poor guy has a bloated squad, yet not enough good, committed players to make a starting 11.

 

Encouraging that in both matches so far he’s made subs to change the flow of the match. Happy he’s called them out tonight. 

Agree, but while I'm defending our manager on here, he does need to quickly work out a starting 11 that will play with some conviction and get them fired up so we play some football the fans can get behind, and quickly.

 

It doesn't have to be our best 11 on paper, but those who'd look like they give a damn (so not Soumare), even if that means getting slightly creative with where players play. 

[Nolucklcfc]

Got a very difficult job here and probably only just realising the level of toxicity and bad eggs in the dressing room. 

[CPepFox]

1 hour ago, honeybradger said:

You seem to be assuming that Wednesday was the tougher game because their in a higher league but they are a complete mess,

Ummm, our club seem to be even more of a mess right now... as I said in another thread, I think, the situation at hand has me feeling like I did being a Redskin fan under the last owner's tenure... the club needs massive changes, but until those at the Top and board leave, toxic will be the recurring theme. 

[Harpenden Fox]

13 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

It wasn't exactly a bowl of cherries at times under Enzo either. As crap as it was today, it was no worse than Millwall, Plymouth, Bristol City and others that I've tried to forget.  Like to think it's an early wake-up call but that relies on players that have determination and pride. Not seen much of that.

We were bloody lucky to beat Rotherham away in early September, too. Lots of teams were scared of us two years ago. Not so much now

[Spanner73]

43 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

It's pretty clear that those three are problematic.

 

Vestergaard has been frozen out under multiple managers.

 

Winks was unbothered for most of last season, got frozen out, didn't celebrate last week and walked down the tunnel instead of coming to the fans today.

 

Faes has wanted out for ages, even announcing his intention to make a departure earlier this year which has failed hilariously (or not so hilariously depending on how much you want him gone). He also has a penchant for blaming his teammates for his own mistakes.

 

The makings of any good manager is how they weed out these sorts of players and build a squad with a proper competitive, focused mentality.

At most clubs the likes you’ve mentioned above wouldn’t even be a consideration for the next manager as the player/players would have been dealt with by someone above and gone by now but as usual nothing gets done 

[LVFox]

10 minutes ago, foxfan92 said:

Agree, but while I'm defending our manager on here, he does need to quickly work out a starting 11 that will play with some conviction and get them fired up so we play some football the fans can get behind, and quickly.

 

It doesn't have to be our best 11 on paper, but those who'd look like they give a damn (so not Soumare), even if that means getting slightly creative with where players play. 

Yeah, I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve said I don’t want to see Bouba play for us again, I despise him.

[HankMarvin]

46 minutes ago, S1DDO said:

Half the squad are overpaid cloggers, he’s not going to sort this out in one transfer window 

People might’ve said that about Coventry when they were struggling. Good managers learn to adapt with what they have. 
How many games does he have to see to recognise players are shite like soumare. It’s not the premier league sometimes desire and heart makes up for lack of ability. Play the youngsters, and let them grow 

[honeybradger]

14 minutes ago, foxfan92 said:

 

Like you I really want our youth to succeed but I do think you're over estimating how good they'd be thrown straight in to a full season. 

 

We need some experienced players to step up to help guide our youth through and protect them so they can flourish without unnecessary pressure which could stifle their development.

 

The three players you've singled out, they performed better 2 seasons ago under the system Enzo deployed. 

 

I won't defend them, I'm cross with not just their attitude but a number of our players who should be better, but the managers we had last season need to take some responsibility because of the number of players who's attitude stinks. This should be something they should have stopped.

 

It is better to be without disruptive figures who aren't putting the club first.

 

However I'd also argue those three are still playing better than far too many of our other players, and so Cifuentes risks being damned if he plays them and damned if he doesn't. (We should never have signed Vestergaard in the first place, but we're where we are and his passing could possibly be utilised (it's not great but not terrible).

 

It's a sorry state, but the manager has inherited this mess not created it. 

 

I'd argue we've not made any good permanent signings that add to our squad in 18 months or so, with the exception of making Fatawa's move permanent (but this doesn't improve the team we had in the championship last time, merely keeps it with the same personnel, and Bilal.

 

We've lost everyone else who was any good, and replaced them with crap we can't shift.

 

And if we rush the youth in and that backfires, where do we go from there?

 

(Also I'd be interested in who you'd have in the midfield if we did get rid of Winks and weren't able to replace him, remembering we'd be short there for the season?)

Players like Winks, Vestergaard, Faes who dont want to be here do not in fact provide a stable environment for youngsters to flourish. It's the opposite in fact, disruptive players disrupt the others around them. 

 

It's like when you were in school and there would be that one kid that would misbehave and disrupt the class, it tends to lead to the whole class falling into disarray. Once that kid is removed all the other kids tend to fall into line as they are not inherently disruptive. If we are not careful the young players will pick up that disregard for the club from those three players.

 

Midfield would be:

Alves

Khannouss Page

 

With the new Portuguese guy potentially coming in for Alves. Maybe we're stronger with Winks instead of Page but I'm just so sick of seeing Winks sulking around.

 

It shows how far we've fallen that we're referring to Vestergaard and Faes as the only remaining 'quality' in the team, they are bombscare defenders even at this level.

[moore_94]

3 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Players like Winks, Vestergaard, Faes who dont want to be here do not in fact provide a stable environment for youngsters to flourish. It's the opposite in fact, disruptive players disrupt the others around them. 

 

It's like when you were in school and there would be that one kid that would misbehave and disrupt the class, it tends to lead to the whole class falling into disarray. Once that kid is removed all the other kids tend to fall into line as they are not inherently disruptive. If we are not careful the young players will pick up that disregard for the club from those three players.

 

Midfield would be:

Alves

Khannouss Page

 

With the new Portuguese guy potentially coming in for Alves. Maybe we're stronger with Winks instead of Page but I'm just so sick of seeing Winks sulking around.

 

It shows how far we've fallen that we're referring to Vestergaard and Faes as the only remaining 'quality' in the team, they are bombscare defenders even at this level.

As much as I would want to see it, that midfield gets run through by any semi-decent opposition

[honeybradger]

Just now, moore_94 said:

As much as I would want to see it, that midfield gets run through by any semi-decent opposition

It gets run through with or without Winks. We have no defensive midfielder, so I dont think we have a more defensively solid midfield available. It's not like we have defensive solidity with Soumare and/or Skipp either. Maybe Choudhury?

 

Barcelona won la liga with a Pedri, Olmo, De Jong midfield, sometimes you dont need a defensive minded midfielder as long as the players are organised and good enough.

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, FoxesTez said:

You have to feel to him. Walked into a circus. 

Left another club to come here. Sat an interview. Knew what he was walking into. 
 

Managers adapt. Learn with what you’ve got.

[when_you're_smiling]

Whoever was coming in was always going to be ****ed.

 

People weren’t happy when we walking the Championship but didn't get 100 points last time here.

 

This time, whoever came in was expected to do better, with a group of players we all hate, are overpaid and are worse than the group we had last time around.

 

That was even before the new manager was appointed way later, and with less funds,  than even the most pessimistic might expect before the end of the last season.