Cifuentes OUT

[murphy]

7 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

You mean Winks and Faes who both desperately want out, Fatawu who is coming back from a lengthy injury, Mavididi who has looked lost and out of form for about a year and James who is playing out of position because of Ramsey’s absence. We are a very different club from that in 23/24 where we still were able to bring in a number of quality signings including Winks, Mav and Abdul who were all buzzing to be here, fast forward 2 years and a relegation the mood is very different. 

The mood was equally sour in 2023 pre Enzo and Faes among others wanted out then too. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

10 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

You mean Winks and Faes who both desperately want out, Fatawu who is coming back from a lengthy injury, Mavididi who has looked lost and out of form for about a year and James who is playing out of position because of Ramsey’s absence. We are a very different club from that in 23/24 where we still were able to bring in a number of quality signings including Winks, Mav and Abdul who were all buzzing to be here, fast forward 2 years and a relegation the mood is very different. 

He asked who isn't performing to their potential. Are you suggesting those names I listed are playing to their full potential this season?

[honeybradger]

11 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Mavididi, Fatawu and Winks are all bobbins compared to 23/24 for starters. Could possibly add Faes and Vestergaard in there too. So that's all of them from the last Championship campaign that are still here. James has already nosedived too.

Winks has been poor for at least 2/3rds of his time here starting with that bad run at the end of Enzo's tenure. At this point those first 6 months with us was just a purple patch.

 

Fatawu has always been a player who loses his head in tough situations, what manager is going to change that? I actually think he's been pretty good considering how bad our striker options are anyway, he has no one to pass to. Those wild crosses are a annoying though.

 

Mavididi another player who has struggled for most of his time here at this point, he's been mentally weak long since Cifuentes came here and that's not going to change.

 

The less I say about Faes the better, the fans were begging Enzo to drop him the last time we were in the championship. If a manager is going to come in and try and make Faes play well he can piss off before he steps through the door as far as im concerned.

 

Vestergaard has been around his usual level this season, fairly solid with semi regular brainfarts. We're not going to get much better out of him.

 

James is playing through an injury because we have no other options, a new manager isnt going to magically heal his back and get him to perform well again.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

15 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Surely goes if we don't win, these haven't got a single point at home ffs

We said the same week after week about RVN last season so I wouldn't be so sure.

[Tommy Fresh]

7 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

We said the same week after week about RVN last season so I wouldn't be so sure.

We looked ****ed anyway under Ruud, this season could still be salvaged 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

We looked ****ed anyway under Ruud, this season could still be salvaged 

Doubt Top will lift his head up from The Racing Post to even pay attention.

[Claudio Fannieri]

19 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

He asked who isn't performing to their potential. Are you suggesting those names I listed are playing to their full potential this season?

No I am suggesting that isn’t necessarily at the managers door but more down to circumstances or individual player desire to be here and give 100% 

[murphy]

17 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Winks has been poor for at least 2/3rds of his time here starting with that bad run at the end of Enzo's tenure. At this point those first 6 months with us was just a purple patch.

 

Fatawu has always been a player who loses his head in tough situations, what manager is going to change that? I actually think he's been pretty good considering how bad our striker options are anyway, he has no one to pass to. Those wild crosses are a annoying though.

 

Mavididi another player who has struggled for most of his time here at this point, he's been mentally weak long since Cifuentes came here and that's not going to change.

 

The less I say about Faes the better, the fans were begging Enzo to drop him the last time we were in the championship. If a manager is going to come in and try and make Faes play well he can piss off before he steps through the door as far as im concerned.

 

Vestergaard has been around his usual level this season, fairly solid with semi regular brainfarts. We're not going to get much better out of him.

 

James is playing through an injury because we have no other options, a new manager isnt going to magically heal his back and get him to perform well again.

So you think that we are getting the maximum we can from these players then?   Come on.  Almost all have literally proven that they can play better including those you have cited that have won this division before.

 

You don't think that the defence for instance could be organised r?  That tactically we could be better offensively and above all that these players can be motivated?

 

Just on your point about Fatawu, football is littered with stories of maturing hot heads.

Edited 8 November 2025 by murphy

[Donwebbio]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

Cooper absolutely was backed.  That was the problem.  That transfer window that you are calling the worst in living memory has Cooper's paw prints all over it.

 

 

What pawprints? You watch his first press conference after signing Skipp. So lukewarm about him that it could not have been his signing. 

 

The recruitment process is also shrouded in mystery so who knows who makes what decision and has input.

[honeybradger]

1 minute ago, murphy said:

So you think that we are getting the maximum we can from these players then?   Come on?  Almost all have literally proven that they can play better including those you have cited that have won this division before.

 

You don't think that the defence for instance could be organised r?  That tactically we could be better offensively and above all that these players can be motivated?

 

Justin your point about Fatawu, football is littered with stories of maturing hot heads.

I think that bringing in a new manager to potentially bring better performances out of our senior players is not what we need. 

 

We need a long term plan and continuity, not to chop and change to try and get better performances out of a busted flush squad.

 

If Cifuentes does what he says which is shift out the underperforming senior players to make room for the academy then that's much more preferable than bringing in a new manager to try and get a tune out of the likes of Wout Faes, Harry Winks etc.

 

Cifuentes does have a history of not being truthful regarding his plans to integrate academy players but if he follows through with kicking off the much needed rebuild then that's much more important for the future of the club than hitting a purple patch under a new manager, which with this group of players is far from guaranteed.

[murphy]

6 minutes ago, Donwebbio said:

What pawprints? You watch his first press conference after signing Skipp. So lukewarm about him that it could not have been his signing. 

 

The recruitment process is also shrouded in mystery so who knows who makes what decision and has input.

Skipp played for Cooper at England U-17/18 age groups.  Ayew played under him at Swansea.  It is my  strong belief that they were Cooper picks along with Reid as part of his oft stated fixation on premier league experienced plodders.

 

 

Edited 8 November 2025 by murphy

[cityfanlee23]

On 06/11/2025 at 18:47, DezFox said:

Best I can do mate. 
 

 

The very first comment is something worth noting in the context of FT. The sheer number of people who reject xG and xGD because they clearly don't understand what it represents is astounding. It's one of the most evidenced stats in football when it comes to predicting the direction of the teams position in the league or across 90 minutes of a match. Multiple users on here have been talking about this since the early games when we were sat 3rd/4th, because it was obvious we were not going to hold that position. 

xG isn't gospel, but ignore it at your peril; football is a statistics game, and very rarely do teams circumvent these metrics across an entire season. A tactical system that produces low xG almost always finishes closer to the bottom than the top. 

I wanted Marti fully gone by about game 7 when we had just lost 4th place, because it was absolutely obvious he was wedded to this system, and the system doesn't work. 
The problem is, far too many fans (less so on FT admittedly) are willing to continue a failing experiment on a gut feeling rather than any metric or statistic, and it's the exact reason we went down because of BR. 
With that said though, we quickly dispatched of Cooper and ended up declining even further, no doubt the board are lining up Russell Martin as we speak. 

[Donwebbio]

17 minutes ago, murphy said:

Skipp played for Cooper at England U-17/18 age groups.  Ayew played under him at Swansea.  It is my  strong belief that they were Cooper picks along with Reid as part of his oft stated fixation on premier league experienced plodders.

 

 

Even if you are right on that, the club have backed him in the transfer window in the August to the tune of millions and then sack him 3 months later which backs up Caludio's original point that the club don't back their managers and to a degree neither do the fan base.

 

I wouldn't have gone for Cooper after Enzo, i would have gone all in for Corberan who was keen by all accounts and would have been the most seamless transition in terms of style. Obviously we don't like to employ manager's in employment so we are always getting manager's who are at least tainted by a recent sacking or have insufficient experience.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

57 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Winks has been poor for at least 2/3rds of his time here starting with that bad run at the end of Enzo's tenure. At this point those first 6 months with us was just a purple patch.

 

Fatawu has always been a player who loses his head in tough situations, what manager is going to change that? I actually think he's been pretty good considering how bad our striker options are anyway, he has no one to pass to. Those wild crosses are a annoying though.

 

Mavididi another player who has struggled for most of his time here at this point, he's been mentally weak long since Cifuentes came here and that's not going to change.

 

The less I say about Faes the better, the fans were begging Enzo to drop him the last time we were in the championship. If a manager is going to come in and try and make Faes play well he can piss off before he steps through the door as far as im concerned.

 

Vestergaard has been around his usual level this season, fairly solid with semi regular brainfarts. We're not going to get much better out of him.

 

James is playing through an injury because we have no other options, a new manager isnt going to magically heal his back and get him to perform well again.

Thanks for basically saying you agree with me.

[honeybradger]

4 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Thanks for basically saying you agree with me.

Not really, my question was which players can you expect better performances from and in my opinion theyre all unreliable so you cant expect better.

 

They all have been better at some point in their career but so have the likes of Soumare, Skipp, Thomas, Kristiansen, would you expect a new manager to come in and get them playing to their best (Ligue 1 winner, championship TOTY, FA cup winner, Serie A top 4).

 

It's unrealistic to expect better performances under a new manager because the form our players showed once upon a time is the exception, not the rule in terms of their careers.

[studentofthegame]

30 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

The very first comment is something worth noting in the context of FT. The sheer number of people who reject xG and xGD because they clearly don't understand what it represents is astounding. It's one of the most evidenced stats in football when it comes to predicting the direction of the teams position in the league or across 90 minutes of a match. Multiple users on here have been talking about this since the early games when we were sat 3rd/4th, because it was obvious we were not going to hold that position. 

xG isn't gospel, but ignore it at your peril; football is a statistics game, and very rarely do teams circumvent these metrics across an entire season. A tactical system that produces low xG almost always finishes closer to the bottom than the top. 

I wanted Marti fully gone by about game 7 when we had just lost 4th place, because it was absolutely obvious he was wedded to this system, and the system doesn't work. 
The problem is, far too many fans (less so on FT admittedly) are willing to continue a failing experiment on a gut feeling rather than any metric or statistic, and it's the exact reason we went down because of BR. 
With that said though, we quickly dispatched of Cooper and ended up declining even further, no doubt the board are lining up Russell Martin as we speak. 

It pisses me off so much when people are too dumb to understand things like xG so just wave it off with the old "football is played on the pitch" argument

 

It's one of those metrics that is fairly meaningless over a short period of time but the longer you apply it to the more accurate it becomes

 

Last season in the Prem the top 7 for xPTS all finished inside the top 9 in the table and the bottom 6 for xPTS all finished inside the bottom 8 in the table, including the bottom 3 finishing in the bottom 3

 

23/24 the top 7 for xPTS were the top 7 in the table although slightly different order, 22/23 the top 9 for xPTS were the top 9 in the table

 

There will always be outliers but those outliers often correct themselves over time, eg Forest were 14th for xPTS last season and finished 7th, it was pretty easy to predict that they would regress massively this season

 

For another example closer to home, in 21/22 when it was becoming clear that Rodgers was no longer the man for the job, we finished 8th but were 15th for xPTS and outperformed our xPTS by nearly 10

[mozartfox]

Our xWTF is fine. Just need to improve the xBS we produce on the pitch every week. 

[Swarles Barkley]

If we lose to day I reckon Top is stupid enough to not sack him during the international break and wait until we lose to Stoke 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

9 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Not really, my question was which players can you expect better performances from and in my opinion theyre all unreliable so you cant expect better.

 

They all have been better at some point in their career but so have the likes of Soumare, Skipp, Thomas, Kristiansen, would you expect a new manager to come in and get them playing to their best (Ligue 1 winner, championship TOTY, FA cup winner, Serie A top 4).

 

It's unrealistic to expect better performances under a new manager because the form our players showed once upon a time is the exception, not the rule in terms of their careers.

Your post basically said that all those players have played well for us but for XYZ reason aren't now (which for the record I don't disagree with). IE saying they aren't now playing to their full potential.

[FrankieADZ]

Doesn't get a win today I think he's gone, and imo rightfully so, performances haven't been good enough 

Edited 8 November 2025 by FrankieADZ

[Claudio Fannieri]

I have a feeling he was given an ultimatum of securing at least 6 points from this run of 3 games this week. I think he knows unless we get a very convincing win and performance it’s highly likely he is gone. 

[SafewayFox]

Just now, Claudio Fannieri said:

I have a feeling he was given an ultimatum of securing at least 6 points from this run of 3 games this week. I think he knows unless we get a very convincing win and performance it’s highly likely he is gone. 

I hope so.

 

I can’t believe that I’m typing this but is he actually a worse manager than Ruud and Cooper?

[Chrysalis]

On 06/11/2025 at 12:43, LichesterRedSoxSoccerBall said:

As much as I think hes out his depth, ever consider that shamble hes working with. Enzo without KDH, Hermansen Vardy and Ndidi would have struggled. Throw in Ricardo being crap and Justin leaving we are left with this dross. 

He did actually struggle without Ndidi and KDH in particular.

[FrankieADZ]

Same formation/system 

Nothing changes 

Same thing over and over, I've given him enough chances, if the performances were there, some sort of positive even if weve lost, I'd given him more time, but it's not, 

MC has got to go imo

[markko]

We have an even worse squad than last year. It is not on the manager. We have gone from recruiting big  name managers to relative unknowns and cheap options. Are you noticing a pattern and similarities with the playing squad?