Cifuentes OUT

[Filbert Fireworks]

7 minutes ago, JacobLCFC1234 said:

Yeah it does actually.

 

You take all those players and tell them to stop doing those things. If they dont, you drop them.

 

If you see good qualities in those players but you see deficincies in them, e.g. strength, concentration or lack of finishing as you have pointed out there, you work on their deficiencies and if you cant make them better, even if its by a few percent, then you get rid of them.

 

Then you pick tactics that work with the strengths the players DO have, and dont pick tactics that make them look worse or expose their deficiencies.

 

if youve got players who are either only physically capable of strolling back from the half way line to defend a transition, or cant be arsed to run back to defend a transition, you either a) drop said player for someone who CAN run back if trying to win it high up, or b) play a system where player who cant run is not put into a position where he has to run miles backwards.

 

 

Yes I agree, the point I was making is that we just don't have that quality in the squad available . Marti has dropped players but the players he has to then bring in are also rubbish. 

 

Switch to a back 3 still have to play bad players. 

Stack the midfield with 5 men. Still bringing in dross. 

Keep the same system still have to replace Thomas with VK. 

 

People keep saying this but what is this magical lineup and system? Would absolutely love to see it. 

[Chelmofox]

14 minutes ago, Filbert Fireworks said:

Yes I agree, the point I was making is that we just don't have that quality in the squad available . Marti has dropped players but the players he has to then bring in are also rubbish. 

 

Switch to a back 3 still have to play bad players. 

Stack the midfield with 5 men. Still bringing in dross. 

Keep the same system still have to replace Thomas with VK. 

 

People keep saying this but what is this magical lineup and system? Would absolutely love to see it. 

Where we are right now there isn't one. Whatever he does he is on to a hiding to nothing now. We also don't know what pressure he is under from the board to play certain players etc.

 

With this bunch of players, i dont see any formation magically working anymore. Ruud tried that last season and they remained sh1te. 

 

I presume Marti's only choice is to stick with is, tickle everyones balls in the hope that they find some confidence from somewhere or even we get a bit of luck to see us through some results.

 

Also, I presume the hope is that other teams in the Championship somehow forget the formula of how to play us, something that was worked out long before Marti came here.

[JacobLCFC1234]

13 minutes ago, Filbert Fireworks said:

Yes I agree, the point I was making is that we just don't have that quality in the squad available . Marti has dropped players but the players he has to then bring in are also rubbish. 

 

Switch to a back 3 still have to play bad players. 

Stack the midfield with 5 men. Still bringing in dross. 

Keep the same system still have to replace Thomas with VK. 

 

People keep saying this but what is this magical lineup and system? Would absolutely love to see it. 

Youre talking like Marti plays, predictable like for like changes to systems and players. 

 

Theres things that could easily be changed, small tweaks that would surely improve us

 

1) Fatawu is the main attacking source in the team. He also gets isolated a lot. This leads to lots of situations where he receives the ball and makes a very predictable movement of shifting the ball onto his left foot and coming inside to either play an inswinging cross (usually useless) or shooting from distance (which will score a few scorchers a season, and the rest mostly a waste).

 

The opposition know this, so they dont NEED to defend him 1v1, the left back can show him outside, or if he cant as long as the centreback comes over, Fatawu gets doubled up and pretty much runs into a brick wall with no good options.

 

Why not utilise a run from deep to overlap or underlap Fatawu, this would mean someone has to go and defend the player making the run from deep and drags him away from Fatawu

 

2) The idea of "wide triangles" was tested out in pre season whilst we still had El Khanouss. Dropping into wide pockets to create overloads, leaving free space on the other side for a switch of play. Since losing Bilal, i dont see this happening at all. Just needs a little game intelligence and someone who can play the right passes. Could even be Ayew maybe, dropping into space, linking things up.

 

3) Ramsey has an eye for goal and can make Andy King/Lampard style runs from the number 10 position....Why not use him as a goal threat coupled with a player up front who maybe drops deep or plays a target man/hold up type role. Ayew maybe? hes not the worlds best footballer, he doesnt need to be, he just needs to be an outlet to hold up the ball and drag defenders away and theres space for Ramsey to attack the box and ghost in.

 

4) Defending transitions....do some shape work. When the ball is lost,  do what the good teams in the championship do and recover your positions immediately, frustrate the opposition attack and slow it down, get into a  compact block. If trying to win the ball back with a counter press just leaves disorganised gaps everywhere with players who cant concentrate or run, tell them to do the safe thing and get back into shape quickly, and defend from there.

 

Theres four things already we could do that dont need wholesale changes. 

[cityfanlee23]

6 minutes ago, JacobLCFC1234 said:

Youre talking like Marti plays, predictable like for like changes to systems and players. 

 

Theres things that could easily be changed, small tweaks that would surely improve us

 

1) Fatawu is the main attacking source in the team. He also gets isolated a lot. This leads to lots of situations where he receives the ball and makes a very predictable movement of shifting the ball onto his left foot and coming inside to either play an inswinging cross (usually useless) or shooting from distance (which will score a few scorchers a season, and the rest mostly a waste).

 

The opposition know this, so they dont NEED to defend him 1v1, the left back can show him outside, or if he cant as long as the centreback comes over, Fatawu gets doubled up and pretty much runs into a brick wall with no good options.

 

Why not utilise a run from deep to overlap or underlap Fatawu, this would mean someone has to go and defend the player making the run from deep and drags him away from Fatawu

 

2) The idea of "wide triangles" was tested out in pre season whilst we still had El Khanouss. Dropping into wide pockets to create overloads, leaving free space on the other side for a switch of play. Since losing Bilal, i dont see this happening at all. Just needs a little game intelligence and someone who can play the right passes. Could even be Ayew maybe, dropping into space, linking things up.

 

3) Ramsey has an eye for goal and can make Andy King/Lampard style runs from the number 10 position....Why not use him as a goal threat coupled with a player up front who maybe drops deep or plays a target man/hold up type role. Ayew maybe? hes not the worlds best footballer, he doesnt need to be, he just needs to be an outlet to hold up the ball and drag defenders away and theres space for Ramsey to attack the box and ghost in.

 

4) Defending transitions....do some shape work. When the ball is lost,  do what the good teams in the championship do and recover your positions immediately, frustrate the opposition attack and slow it down, get into a  compact block. If trying to win the ball back with a counter press just leaves disorganised gaps everywhere with players who cant concentrate or run, tell them to do the safe thing and get back into shape quickly, and defend from there.

 

Theres four things already we could do that dont need wholesale changes. 

This is important, I see so many saying that our team is worse than what Enzo had, of course it is, but Ndidi for example wasn't a natural 8, yet Enzo had him running the channels, more often than not he wasn't given the ball, but it opened up the space for Fatawu and often Vardy. 
We don't need the players to be the absolute best at making a run, we just need them to run, Marti seemingly doesn't want them doing that near often enough. 

[Chelmofox]

14 minutes ago, JacobLCFC1234 said:

Youre talking like Marti plays, predictable like for like changes to systems and players. 

 

Theres things that could easily be changed, small tweaks that would surely improve us

 

1) Fatawu is the main attacking source in the team. He also gets isolated a lot. This leads to lots of situations where he receives the ball and makes a very predictable movement of shifting the ball onto his left foot and coming inside to either play an inswinging cross (usually useless) or shooting from distance (which will score a few scorchers a season, and the rest mostly a waste).

 

The opposition know this, so they dont NEED to defend him 1v1, the left back can show him outside, or if he cant as long as the centreback comes over, Fatawu gets doubled up and pretty much runs into a brick wall with no good options.

 

Why not utilise a run from deep to overlap or underlap Fatawu, this would mean someone has to go and defend the player making the run from deep and drags him away from Fatawu

 

2) The idea of "wide triangles" was tested out in pre season whilst we still had El Khanouss. Dropping into wide pockets to create overloads, leaving free space on the other side for a switch of play. Since losing Bilal, i dont see this happening at all. Just needs a little game intelligence and someone who can play the right passes. Could even be Ayew maybe, dropping into space, linking things up.

 

3) Ramsey has an eye for goal and can make Andy King/Lampard style runs from the number 10 position....Why not use him as a goal threat coupled with a player up front who maybe drops deep or plays a target man/hold up type role. Ayew maybe? hes not the worlds best footballer, he doesnt need to be, he just needs to be an outlet to hold up the ball and drag defenders away and theres space for Ramsey to attack the box and ghost in.

 

4) Defending transitions....do some shape work. When the ball is lost,  do what the good teams in the championship do and recover your positions immediately, frustrate the opposition attack and slow it down, get into a  compact block. If trying to win the ball back with a counter press just leaves disorganised gaps everywhere with players who cant concentrate or run, tell them to do the safe thing and get back into shape quickly, and defend from there.

 

Theres four things already we could do that dont need wholesale changes. 

We've seen 1 plenty of times. This happened with Ramsey against Millwall when he whipped a great cross to where a striker should have been. I think we saw it will Riccy and James a few times yesterday.

 

With 3, Ramsey is screwed and i doubt we get to see him again. We have no natural 10 in a Marti system.

 

With 4, we have the slowest CB back in the world (that our fans seem to think is out best defender). Causes us all sorts of issues defending transitions. Solution is change the CB's from a team who play out the back to a team that can actually defend. Its an obvious one for me. But whether or not we actually improve remains to be seen

 

Did you notice Marti MADE the players go around the whole pitch yesterday. Very brave move from the manager who could end up losing the dressing room over it. Makes me think all sorts of things could be worked on and just not happening on the pitch. At the end of the day, if players arent doing what they are asked then nothing is going to improve. And a lot of these players have form with that sadly.

Edited 2 November 2025 by Chelmofox

[Chelmofox]

5 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

This is important, I see so many saying that our team is worse than what Enzo had, of course it is, but Ndidi for example wasn't a natural 8, yet Enzo had him running the channels, more often than not he wasn't given the ball, but it opened up the space for Fatawu and often Vardy. 
We don't need the players to be the absolute best at making a run, we just need them to run, Marti seemingly doesn't want them doing that near often enough. 

Dont know if you go to games. We pointed out yesterday he spent so much of the game waving them up the pitch furiously when we were in possession. One moment in particular stood out when VK got the ball in the first half and he waved them up the pitch, only for VK to end up in no mans land and pass sideways. You could clearly see Marti was pissed off.

 

I really dont think they are doing what is asked. Which is a problem in itself, but we've seen this time and time again with this bunch.

[JacobLCFC1234]

7 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Dont know if you go to games. We pointed out yesterday he spent so much of the game waving them up the pitch furiously when we were in possession. One moment in particular stood out when VK got the ball in the first half and he waved them up the pitch, only for VK to end up in no mans land and pass sideways. You could clearly see Marti was pissed off.

 

I really dont think they are doing what is asked. Which is a problem in itself, but we've seen this time and time again with this bunch.

By "waving them up the pitch" you are suggesting Marti wants a more direct style than the players themselves are implementing?

 

I just wondered what youre interpretation of the waving is, faster transitions? commit more men forward?

[Chelmofox]

1 minute ago, JacobLCFC1234 said:

By "waving them up the pitch" you are suggesting Marti wants a more direct style than the players themselves are implementing?

 

I just wondered what youre interpretation of the waving is, faster transitions? commit more men forward?

Just saying what I am seeing. I presume it’s faster transitions and more direct.  But it’s not the gestation of someone seeing what they are asking for. 

[JacobLCFC1234]

1 minute ago, Chelmofox said:

Just saying what I am seeing. I presume it’s faster transitions and more direct.  But it’s not the gestation of someone seeing what they are asking for. 

I think its an interesting point you raise because im sure Maresca was quoted as saying he did not like counter attacks as they are random, and dont conform to patterns of play.

 

Counter attacks being, by definition, fast transitions.

 

So maybe that was something instilled into the players at a time we were (relatively speaking) "good" that has stuck.

 

Maybe.

[Corky]

5 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

They don't get half the stick they deserve. It's one of the easiest rides in football.

Yeah, the place is apathetic and disinterested in the main. Go to an club that has self respect and a desire to act like a big club and it would be off the scale. Even Norwich, widely viewed as a quiet fanbase, have put heat on the board, manager and playing staff in a way we really haven't.

[Chrysalis]

Looking again at Blackburn game, its same weaknesses as consistently had for 3-4 or so years now.

 

Lack of pressing when off the ball.

Poor positioning when off the ball.

Lack of quality in final 3rd.

 

I expect too much emphasis is on keep ball in training sessions due to a directive from Top, and other parts of the game suffer from it, its been consistent across multiple managers with the exception of Cooper where we became more clinical.

[Claudio Fannieri]

6 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

Just saying what I am seeing. I presume it’s faster transitions and more direct.  But it’s not the gestation of someone seeing what they are asking for. 

I agree several times Marti was frustrated when play slowed, went sideways or backwards yet on occasions when we did play quicker and looked to be positive and move the ball forward with purpose he applauded. 
 

As others have said our club has become renowned for players going above the manager in regards to methods, tactics and treatment which makes it nigh on impossible for anyone to come in and really shake this group up or change the culture. 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

Looking again at Blackburn game, its same weaknesses as consistently had for 3-4 or so years now.

 

Lack of pressing when off the ball.

Poor positioning when off the ball.

Lack of quality in final 3rd.

 

I expect too much emphasis is on keep ball in training sessions due to a directive from Top, and other parts of the game suffer from it, its been consistent across multiple managers with the exception of Cooper where we became more clinical.

Whilst he's limited to a degree, pressing requires mobility and pace throughout the side and yet it seems he's purposely picking the slowest players we have.

 

This is why Aluko has to come in at full back, we are so lacking there it is frightening. Carranza and Ayew might as well sit the season out now, they simply cannot be carried in this side. I know that only leaves Daka who is approaching 1 goal in 50 appearances but we have to get pace across the entire front 3.

 

I'd honestly try 3-4-3 / 3-4-2-1 I reckon.

 

Stolarczyk

 

Okoli

Vestergaard

Nelson

 

Ricardo/Fatawu

Winks

James

Aluko

 

Fatawu/Monga

Daka

Mavididi

 

 

[fox_favourite]

20 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Whilst he's limited to a degree, pressing requires mobility and pace throughout the side and yet it seems he's purposely picking the slowest players we have.

 

This is why Aluko has to come in at full back, we are so lacking there it is frightening. Carranza and Ayew might as well sit the season out now, they simply cannot be carried in this side. I know that only leaves Daka who is approaching 1 goal in 50 appearances but we have to get pace across the entire front 3.

 

I'd honestly try 3-4-3 / 3-4-2-1 I reckon.

 

Stolarczyk

 

Okoli

Vestergaard

Nelson

 

Ricardo/Fatawu

Winks

James

Aluko

 

Fatawu/Monga

Daka

Mavididi

 

 

It's not just pace we need, for pressing we need commitment and desire. The Blackburn game proved again that this group of players (can't call them a team) haven't got that. Last season proved that as well. They don't care, or not enough of them do to make the press work. They're pathetic and selfish. 

 

On the passing side of your point, I do fully agree with. Marti needs to find a way to get these Ayers playing from back to front quickly. 

Edited 3 November 2025 by fox_favourite

[Ric Flair]

Just now, fox_favourite said:

It's not just pace we need, for pressing we need commitment and desire. The Blackburn game proved again that this group of players (can't call thek a team) haven't got that. They don't care, or not enough of them do to make the press work. They're pathetic and selfish. 

Agreed

[em9999]

We need to stop giving the ball away every ten seconds lets do thr basics first like keeping hold of the football .

 

Half of the team seem incapable of even passing a football nevermind attacking 

[teblin]

7 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

It's not just pace we need, for pressing we need commitment and desire. The Blackburn game proved again that this group of players (can't call them a team) haven't got that. Last season proved that as well. They don't care, or not enough of them do to make the press work. They're pathetic and selfish. 

 

On the passing side of your point, I do fully agree with. Marti needs to find a way to get these Ayers playing from back to front quickly. 

It certainly feels that way, with 1 or 2 exceptions I think you are spot on.

[Claudio Fannieri]

Just now, fox_favourite said:

It's not just pace we need, for pressing we need commitment and desire. The Blackburn game proved again that this group of players (can't call thek a team) haven't got that. They don't care, or not enough of them do to make the press work. They're pathetic and selfish. 

I honestly believe that there is a core group that are included in our match day squad that are being selected to try and secure moves out of the club in January. I would include Faes, VK, Winks, Soumare and Daka. 
 

All of those were players who were attracting interest from other clubs and most have expressed/shown a desire to move on. 
 

unfortunately this little lot even after wage relegation reductions are costing the club in excess of £200k per week / £10m a year. 
 

The club will be desperate to move these on ASAP with any interested club at least covering any remaining book value and all of there wages, this ain’t going to happen if they are all frozen out in some sort of bomb squad, we simply cannot afford to do it especially given our PSR challenges so, I think this is why Marti is having to continually select them within his matchday squad. 

[fox_favourite]

6 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

I honestly believe that there is a core group that are included in our match day squad that are being selected to try and secure moves out of the club in January. I would include Faes, VK, Winks, Soumare and Daka. 
 

All of those were players who were attracting interest from other clubs and most have expressed/shown a desire to move on. 
 

unfortunately this little lot even after wage relegation reductions are costing the club in excess of £200k per week / £10m a year. 
 

The club will be desperate to move these on ASAP with any interested club at least covering any remaining book value and all of there wages, this ain’t going to happen if they are all frozen out in some sort of bomb squad, we simply cannot afford to do it especially given our PSR challenges so, I think this is why Marti is having to continually select them within his matchday squad. 

I understand your logic, however I see it the other way. 

 

 

If that is the case, then why aren't they doing the very basic and putting effort in? With them playing it is hurting their value and their level of interest. If you're a scout, would you recommend Soumare on what you've seen this season, or VK after Saturday etc...? 

 

The players aren't helping themselves and their attitude is stopping them from the move. It would be better to create a bomb squad as such, so then at least the agents can say " well the manager didn't like him, but he has done blar blar in the past.  

 

These players actually playing is exposing them as not good enough and with a weak mentality for the championship, what club will come in for them?

Edited 3 November 2025 by fox_favourite

[Pliskin]

8 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Whilst he's limited to a degree, pressing required mobility and pave throughout the side and yet it seems he's purposely picking the slowest players we have.

 

This is why Aluko has to come in at full back, we are so lacking there it is frightening. Carranza and Ayew might as well sit the season out now, they simply cannot be carried in this side. I know that only leaves Daka who is approaching 1 goal in 50 appearances but we have to get pace across the entire front 3.

 

I'd honestly try 3-4-3 / 3-4-2-1 I reckon.

 

Stolarczyk

 

Okoli

Vestergaard

Nelson

 

Ricardo/Fatawu

Winks

James

Aluko

 

Fatawu/Monga

Daka

Mavididi

 

 

This. 
 

 

We’ve got to place more emphasis on transitional football. This is why teams like Blackburn, Hull and Millwall can beat us comfortably. They have pace in the right areas and use it….. an overall lack of quality doesn’t really matter if you’re creating lots of chances, eventually you’ll score a couple. 
 

This persistence with playing in this way when it clearly isn’t working is infuriating. 
 

And, I blame Top mostly, as it is clear he is the one directing what he wants to see on the pitch, as Enzo said “He asked me to play like Man City”…… which clearly Marti isn’t wanting to push back on. 
 

We know that the club is ****ed, but it’s clear there’s major disparity between the board room and the manager. But Marti appears like he’s not strong enough to stand up to them. 
 

But we won’t attract a manager who will, because Top and his mate wouldn’t want any opposition. 
 

In short, we are in a state of hopelessness. 

[fox_favourite]

2 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

This. 
 

 

We’ve got to place more emphasis on transitional football. This is why teams like Blackburn, Hull and Millwall can beat us comfortably. They have pace in the right areas and use it….. an overall lack of quality doesn’t really matter if you’re creating lots of chances, eventually you’ll score a couple. 
 

This persistence with playing in this way when it clearly isn’t working is infuriating. 
 

And, I blame Top mostly, as it is clear he is the one directing what he wants to see on the pitch, as Enzo said “He asked me to play like Man City”…… which clearly Marti isn’t wanting to push back on. 
 

We know that the club is ****ed, but it’s clear there’s major disparity between the board room and the manager. But Marti appears like he’s not strong enough to stand up to them. 
 

But we won’t attract a manager who will, because Top and his mate wouldn’t want any opposition. 
 

In short, we are in a state of hopelessness. 

This sentence sums the whole club up. Sacking the manager won't change anything because of this! 

[teblin]

I do feel for marti, and like people have said it might be the bunch of over paid footballers not doing what they are asked. 
 

But the football is terrible, we were lucky against Sheffield Wednesday, solid if un spectacular against Birmingham(our only 2 home wins in the championship).

 

The 2 away game wins were down to 3 wonder strikes, not necessarily playing well.

 

Best we have played was Coventry in the games I have seen and that was only above average.

 

It just not good enough, that isn’t just down to him, and maybe most of it isn’t down to him. But managers are the ones that fall by the wayside.

 

Tomorrow he has to win else I can’t see how he survives.

 

 

 

 

Edited 3 November 2025 by teblin

[Claudio Fannieri]

2 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

I understand your logic, however I see it the other way. 

 

 

If that is the case, then why aren't they doing the very basic and putting effort in? With them playing it is hurting their value and their level of interest. If you're a scout, would you recommend Soumare on what you've seen this season, or VK after Saturday etc...? 

 

The players aren't helping themselves and their attitude is stopping them from the move. It would be better to create a bomb squad as such, so then at least the agents can say " well the manager didn't like him, but he has done blar blar in the past.  

 

These players actually playing is exposing them as not good enough and with a weak mentality for the championship, what club will come in for them?

Clubs will see value in these players, I can easily see a club like Wolves taking a chance on a player like Winks who will be a very low fee, likewise Soumare will have interest from Spain and Italy. Faes is a Belgian international etc etc 

 

Look at Perez and Kelechi, both were pretty poor in their final season with us and yet both secured decent la liga moves. Also the agents will be doing their job in ensuring that interested clubs understand that their player is not appreciated and it isn’t their fault blah blah 

[Tommy Fresh]

32 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

I honestly believe that there is a core group that are included in our match day squad that are being selected to try and secure moves out of the club in January. I would include Faes, VK, Winks, Soumare and Daka. 
 

All of those were players who were attracting interest from other clubs and most have expressed/shown a desire to move on. 
 

unfortunately this little lot even after wage relegation reductions are costing the club in excess of £200k per week / £10m a year. 
 

The club will be desperate to move these on ASAP with any interested club at least covering any remaining book value and all of there wages, this ain’t going to happen if they are all frozen out in some sort of bomb squad, we simply cannot afford to do it especially given our PSR challenges so, I think this is why Marti is having to continually select them within his matchday squad. 

Playing Soumare and Daka to get moves in January would be incredibly stupid, seeing as they can agree pre contracts with foreign clubs to leave for free in the summer 

[Ric Flair]

8 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Playing Soumare and Daka to get moves in January would be incredibly stupid, seeing as they can agree pre contracts with foreign clubs to leave for free in the summer 

Exactly, we have an appalling history of moving on players with only 6 months of their contract to go.