LCFC 2-1 Stoke, post-match thread

[Pliskin]

6 hours ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Im amazed how many fans think the players are above mediocre.

 

Who saw that defence on paper today and thought ‘wow, that’s a good defence’ or up top, ‘there’s a top end striker’?

Most of that defence has eased this league before, and are international players. 
 

Player for player on paper this squad is still better than Stoke’s. 
 

It’s been said a million times that this side has glaring fragility, but int he same breath it’s got more than enough to be in the top cluster of teams in this league. 
 

What we’re seeing now is tactical problems, Marti’s philosophy isn’t working.

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

Most of that defence has eased this league before, and are international players. 
 

Player for player on paper this squad is still better than Stoke’s. 
 

It’s been said a million times that this side has glaring fragility, but int he same breath it’s got more than enough to be in the top cluster of teams in this league. 
 

What we’re seeing now is tactical problems, Marti’s philosophy isn’t working.

Yes the case can and has been made that Marti is not good enough, but we tend to overlook how mentally fragile we have become, and this is an extreme problem.

Not sure if they need a collective arm around their shoulders, or a collective boot up their asses.

On another note: I also think we lose that yesterday if Jakub starts, as Asmir was a calming influence.

[VLC86]

7 hours ago, Long Eaton Fox said:

How can you comment if you haven't seen any of the game. I find ignorance like this incredible.

The comments on here read like every other game, as do the comments of my mates that went. I’ve seen the majority of games this season and we see no signs of what Marti has been working on in the week.

[Gamble92]

2 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Most of that defence has eased this league before, and are international players. 
 

Player for player on paper this squad is still better than Stoke’s. 
 

It’s been said a million times that this side has glaring fragility, but int he same breath it’s got more than enough to be in the top cluster of teams in this league. 
 

What we’re seeing now is tactical problems, Marti’s philosophy isn’t working.

Very well put. You always speak well

[FoxesTalker]

The win wasn't deserved again which has been a recurring theme this season. Stoke deserved at least a point from the game.

[ceebeefox]

Good win, poor display. I’m getting sick and tired of seeing no action City wise at the Kop end though, it’s been all season! We tip tap round our box against teams that appear quicker than us to close down so we don’t get out. If we do go one up on the break we seem to sit in marking space not men, it’s awful. Both goals, though good well taken ones were from Stoke giving the ball away in a dangerous area, not our good play. A wins a win but we’re miles off it and are going nowhere, and I came away disappointed not elated.

[Sunbury Fox]

5 minutes ago, ceebeefox said:

Good win, poor display. I’m getting sick and tired of seeing no action City wise at the Kop end though, it’s been all season! We tip tap round our box against teams that appear quicker than us to close down so we don’t get out. If we do go one up on the break we seem to sit in marking space not men, it’s awful. Both goals, though good well taken ones were from Stoke giving the ball away in a dangerous area, not our good play. A wins a win but we’re miles off it and are going nowhere, and I came away disappointed not elated.

Same. Scored 1 goal at the Kop end in the last 6 home games. 

[Livid]

Just watching the Sky highlights, after Daka’s goal “Daka doing what Daka does best”! 

 

I’m sorry but what!! 

 

 

[Pliskin]

54 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Yes the case can and has been made that Marti is not good enough, but we tend to overlook how mentally fragile we have become, and this is an extreme problem.

Not sure if they need a collective arm around their shoulders, or a collective boot up their asses.

On another note: I also think we lose that yesterday if Jakub starts, as Asmir was a calming influence.

Things a great point, and it takes a manager with exceptional man management abilities to achieve this. We saw this with Enzo, he improved players, and has exceptional man management skills, which is remarkable considering it was his first job…… 

 

But with Marti, I just don’t get that, I just don’t think that his man management is good, the body language is terrible and as you rightly say we’re still mentally fragile. A new manager should breed a new lease of life, with the right type of character this can be achieved quickly.

 

I just feel Marti got off to a bad start with a late arrival, no real transfer business, and a club on its arse…. So I don’t really blame him, he’s been asked to do something he can’t achieve, but it’s not what we need…..

[The Doctor]

10 minutes ago, Livid said:

Just watching the Sky highlights, after Daka’s goal “Daka doing what Daka does best”! 

 

I’m sorry but what!! 

 

 

running in behind is what he does best. Which is why it's baffling that we choose to play him in a system thats designed to play with the ball in front of the opposing defence.

[Claudio Fannieri]

3 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Most of that defence has eased this league before, and are international players. 
 

Player for player on paper this squad is still better than Stoke’s. 
 

It’s been said a million times that this side has glaring fragility, but int he same breath it’s got more than enough to be in the top cluster of teams in this league. 
 

What we’re seeing now is tactical problems, Marti’s philosophy isn’t working.

However massive difference to 2 seasons ago is now so many players who are here have visibly checked out of the club and yet are still being selected, either by choice of the manager or by insistence of others. This is not as straightforward as they have done it in this league before so by default should do it again. 
 

The dynamics of the squad are very different now, plus no Vardy or Albrighton as leaders to keep some of the dissenters in lane. 
 

We saw it last season, Cooper thrown under a bus by certain players then RVN comes in bemoans a lack of standards and a few of the players again don’t react positively, now fast forward to now and similar issues, I am not convinced any manager could get a tune out of this current bunch in these circumstances. The only solution for me is move as many out in January / summer and start again and give the manager (whoever it is) carte blanche to play who he wants and build a team of committed young hungry players who want to play for the club. 

[BrilliantFox]

15 hours ago, ronnup said:

Skipps best game.

Hitler's best quality.

[The Doctor]

1 minute ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

However massive difference to 2 seasons ago is now so many players who are here have visibly checked out of the club and yet are still being selected, either by choice of the manager or by insistence of others. This is not as straightforward as they have done it in this league before so by default should do it again. 
 

The dynamics of the squad are very different now, plus no Vardy or Albrighton as leaders to keep some of the dissenters in lane. 
 

We saw it last season, Cooper thrown under a bus by certain players then RVN comes in bemoans a lack of standards and a few of the players again don’t react positively, now fast forward to now and similar issues, I am not convinced any manager could get a tune out of this current bunch in these circumstances. The only solution for me is move as many out in January / summer and start again and give the manager (whoever it is) carte blanche to play who he wants and build a team of committed young hungry players who want to play for the club. 

That will remain a problem for a while because someone at the very top is a loser begging friendships from celebrities, so will do whatever the players ask in the hope they'll be his mates.

[sulfoxide]

15 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Things a great point, and it takes a manager with exceptional man management abilities to achieve this. We saw this with Enzo, he improved players, and has exceptional man management skills, which is remarkable considering it was his first job…… 

 

But with Marti, I just don’t get that, I just don’t think that his man management is good, the body language is terrible and as you rightly say we’re still mentally fragile. A new manager should breed a new lease of life, with the right type of character this can be achieved quickly.

 

I just feel Marti got off to a bad start with a late arrival, no real transfer business, and a club on its arse…. So I don’t really blame him, he’s been asked to do something he can’t achieve, but it’s not what we need…..

Should have had Dyche.

[Pliskin]

1 minute ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

However massive difference to 2 seasons ago is now so many players who are here have visibly checked out of the club and yet are still being selected, either by choice of the manager or by insistence of others. This is not as straightforward as they have done it in this league before so by default should do it again. 
 

The dynamics of the squad are very different now, plus no Vardy or Albrighton as leaders to keep some of the dissenters in lane. 
 

We saw it last season, Cooper thrown under a bus by certain players then RVN comes in bemoans a lack of standards and a few of the players again don’t react positively, now fast forward to now and similar issues, I am not convinced any manager could get a tune out of this current bunch in these circumstances. The only solution for me is move as many out in January / summer and start again and give the manager (whoever it is) carte blanche to play who he wants and build a team of committed young hungry players who want to play for the club. 

A manager can make a huge difference. 
 

We are all well aware that there are fragilities, within the group but it’s all down to psychology, regardless of players attitudes towards a club, if they have a manager who appeals to their desires…. For example if you’ve got a player who wants away, endeavour to tap into that desire by getting them to essentially play themselves into a move away…… benefits everyone, there are managers who will be able to achieve this, just because a players wants to leave, doesn’t mean you can’t get them back onside one way or another…….

 

Who that manager is, is naturally a massive question…. But I just don’t think this project is working with Marti. You make a good point about needing a wholesale refresh, we do, but it’s not realistic at the moment is it? We’ve got financial problems that I don’t think will even rest once this has done, I can see the EFL trying to have a go again with something fresh. So financially, unless we take a “**** ‘ems” approach, it’s likely to bubble on for a bit longer. 
 

It’s down to having the right people at the club. I agree with on pitch leaders, we have none, none once did Ricardo get in the ear of the referee yesterday, despite several terrible calls to book our players when none of Stokes were getting booked…

 

 

[Pliskin]

10 minutes ago, sulfoxide said:

Should have had Dyche.

I do agree. 

[when_you're_smiling]

9 hours ago, jayfox26 said:

Ricardo is comfortably the best full back in this league. Vestergaard and Faes are both international centre backs who are good enough for this level but unfortunately can be prone to mistakes. Thomas is crap as are our strikers. 

 

I don't think our fans necessarily overrate our players, I just think alot don't fully understand how horrifically bad the standard is at this level. Stoke are 3rd and other than Johansson, Phillips and Mubama (two of which aren't actually their players), none of them get in our team. Its not saying we're good, it's just people need to understand this league is absolutely shite!

 

3 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Most of that defence has eased this league before, and are international players. 
 

Player for player on paper this squad is still better than Stoke’s. 
 

It’s been said a million times that this side has glaring fragility, but int he same breath it’s got more than enough to be in the top cluster of teams in this league. 
 

What we’re seeing now is tactical problems, Marti’s philosophy isn’t working.

You guys aren’t Congleton and Rudkin are you? 

[tinpot_fox]

15 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

Will we see a game with x.G above two this season 

 

Popular thread this an hour later

Shame I was to busy to go to the game but it didn’t look very well attended on the telly box. 
I didn’t see all the match and stream was shoddy but the highlights for me were both out goals were from passages of play with great attempted through balls (and a handy deflection). Commentator saying Dana doing what he does best when he scored, was the chefs kiss. 
 

Anyway, we’re off to Cornwall for a few days to enjoy this fantastic weather 

 

🌦️ 😀 🌦️ 

[Claudio Fannieri]

10 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

A manager can make a huge difference. 
 

We are all well aware that there are fragilities, within the group but it’s all down to psychology, regardless of players attitudes towards a club, if they have a manager who appeals to their desires…. For example if you’ve got a player who wants away, endeavour to tap into that desire by getting them to essentially play themselves into a move away…… benefits everyone, there are managers who will be able to achieve this, just because a players wants to leave, doesn’t mean you can’t get them back onside one way or another…….

 

Who that manager is, is naturally a massive question…. But I just don’t think this project is working with Marti. You make a good point about needing a wholesale refresh, we do, but it’s not realistic at the moment is it? We’ve got financial problems that I don’t think will even rest once this has done, I can see the EFL trying to have a go again with something fresh. So financially, unless we take a “**** ‘ems” approach, it’s likely to bubble on for a bit longer. 
 

It’s down to having the right people at the club. I agree with on pitch leaders, we have none, none once did Ricardo get in the ear of the referee yesterday, despite several terrible calls to book our players when none of Stokes were getting booked…

 

 

But if the large part of the group have checked out and don’t want to be here then its highly unlikely any manager that is genuinely attainable given where we are is going to come in and change the culture and more importantly suddenly inspire some of our wantaway players to change their mindset. 
 

All the names mentioned as potential replacements for Marti or managers we could have hired in the summer would be in a similar situation as none of them have the reputation or gravitas to turn the likes of Winks, Faes, Soumare, VK, round or to get them more committed to the club or the cause. 
 

We are in the championship, managers like Wellens and Challinor who would be decent choices don’t have the track record or playing career that would command the respect of this mob and then the likes of Mowbray, O’Neill, Martin etc are just run of the mill gaffers who like Marti would struggle with players who have delusions of grandeur. 
 

That’s why the manager has to be backed to  sideline whoever isn’t on board and then for the club to move these players out at the earliest possible opportunity.  The swamp needs draining it’s the only way this club has any chance of moving forward positively and a fresh start. 

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

But if the large part of the group have checked out and don’t want to be here then its highly unlikely any manager that is genuinely attainable given where we are is going to come in and change the culture and more importantly suddenly inspire some of our wantaway players to change their mindset. 
 

All the names mentioned as potential replacements for Marti or managers we could have hired in the summer would be in a similar situation as none of them have the reputation or gravitas to turn the likes of Winks, Faes, Soumare, VK, round or to get them more committed to the club or the cause. 
 

We are in the championship, managers like Wellens and Challinor who would be decent choices don’t have the track record or playing career that would command the respect of this mob and then the likes of Mowbray, O’Neill, Martin etc are just run of the mill gaffers who like Marti would struggle with players who have delusions of grandeur. 
 

That’s why the manager has to be backed to  sideline whoever isn’t on board and then for the club to move these players out at the earliest possible opportunity.  The swamp needs draining it’s the only way this club has any chance of moving forward positively and a fresh start. 

It’s difficult to attain yes, but it isn’t unattainable, nothing is….. there are still managers out there who can do this….. we see this when teams have a sudden but consistent upturn in form…. As Forest did under Cooper, who arguably would probably be better for us in this current climate.
 

It’s only difficult to envisage because of how things currently are….. but we only have to cast our minds back a few years to see what Enzo achieved…… any player can be inspired, regardless of their feelings. Yannick was want away, and Enzo managed to get him back onside….

 

Its how the manager motivates his group as to how this is achieved….. 

 

Its clear Marti isn’t a good man manager, the body language from the players has never improved, probably bar Winks who at least is showing willing again. 
 

It’s difficult but I maintain a manager who focuses on the players individual skill sets and sets the team up to maximise these will do better than a manager who is trying to play to his philosophy even when it’s not possible to do so, which what Marti is doing. 
 

As I’ve said, he should never have really been appointed, but he has but backing him long term will be a mistake too in my opinion…. Two things are going to happen

 

1) We get promoted and try to use the PL to rebuild, because you can’t rebuild at this level, especially when you’re making mistakes financially and tying your hands…

 

2) We fail to get promoted and drift into mid table obscurity. 
 

Rebuilding at this level is a myth, any team that does usually does following a change of ownership, with a fresh injection of investment….. otherwise the longer you stay at this level, the worse it gets, the more your financial strength reduces and the less appealing you become….. it’s why many teams have been lost the miserable black hole that is the EFL, which really is a purgatory for football…… an eternal stale waiting room….

 

The latter is now the more likely, because we’ve ****ed up yet again, but if you want to rebuild, you have to do what the likes of Burnley have done, and Leeds of recent years and bounce around the divisions for a couple of seasons to get that financial backing. 
 

It’s a difficult scenario, and I do agree with what you’re saying, you’re not wrong….. it’s just there’s still an opportunity to be better with a manager that suits our current skillset, which is limited, but we still have some good players……

 

But, it’s all immaterial due to the mess behind the scenes, which renders everything above possibly impossible..…..

Edited 23 November 2025 by Pliskin

[jayfox26]

2 hours ago, when_you're_smiling said:

 

You guys aren’t Congleton and Rudkin are you? 

No, I just don't go over the top with the criticism. Would I choose to have Faes and Vestergaard? No but we don't currently have a choice. My point isn't about how good/bad our players are, it's about people understanding how incredibly bad the standard is in the championship. 

[when_you're_smiling]

6 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

No, I just don't go over the top with the criticism. Would I choose to have Faes and Vestergaard? No but we don't currently have a choice. My point isn't about how good/bad our players are, it's about people understanding how incredibly bad the standard is in the championship. 

And that entitled view of we’re too good for the Championship is (possibly unfairly, but in my opinion) something many of the players think and is part of the problem. 

[jayfox26]

4 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

And that entitled view of we’re too good for the Championship is (possibly unfairly, but in my opinion) something many of the players think and is part of the problem. 

Agreed, some of them do probably think they are too good for the championship but unfortunately haven't been putting in performances to show that. The team is unbalanced and we desperately lack a left back and a striker but the squad overall should be good enough for being in the promotion mix, I'm just not convinced Marti is the man to oversee that. 

[LCFCJohn]

2 hours ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

But if the large part of the group have checked out and don’t want to be here then its highly unlikely any manager that is genuinely attainable given where we are is going to come in and change the culture and more importantly suddenly inspire some of our wantaway players to change their mindset. 
 

All the names mentioned as potential replacements for Marti or managers we could have hired in the summer would be in a similar situation as none of them have the reputation or gravitas to turn the likes of Winks, Faes, Soumare, VK, round or to get them more committed to the club or the cause. 
 

We are in the championship, managers like Wellens and Challinor who would be decent choices don’t have the track record or playing career that would command the respect of this mob and then the likes of Mowbray, O’Neill, Martin etc are just run of the mill gaffers who like Marti would struggle with players who have delusions of grandeur. 
 

That’s why the manager has to be backed to  sideline whoever isn’t on board and then for the club to move these players out at the earliest possible opportunity.  The swamp needs draining it’s the only way this club has any chance of moving forward positively and a fresh start. 

Agree with this.

 

Ideally, you need someone who has played at a good level as well as some sort of track record at management. I don’t mind if that is someone who has managed in L1 (Challinor and Wellens) but as you say, they don’t have the playing career to get respect from our dossers so if you got Wellens for example, it needs to be a long term view and back him over the players. RVN had the playing career but was a bad tactician and a loose cannon. But at least could turn around to this lot and point out they aren’t fit to clean his boots as a player! 
 

To be fair, Cifuentes doesn’t have any of it, playing career, record in management (like a Mowbray type does) or enough tactical nouse.

[VLC86]

3 hours ago, Livid said:

Just watching the Sky highlights, after Daka’s goal “Daka doing what Daka does best”! 

 

I’m sorry but what!! 

 

 

First time I read that I read it like “After the goal, Daka was back to doing what he does best” AKA completely mis kicking the ball from 6 yards out.