Manchester City Found Guilty Of Almost All Charges

[jammie82uk]

1 hour ago, trooky said:

Whatever people thing of City the football operations has been exemplary. 

 

Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal had such a head start over City, and they effectively set each of those clubs back by 20 years, which has been fantastic for the league. 

Only because they brought players they wouldn’t have been able to afford to buy if they kept inside the rules 

[Stuntman_Mike]

12 hours ago, Wortho said:

So the present players should all be tarred with the same brush, and the management and fans? 

It's the same club mate, what are you on about? Everything they currently represent has been built through systematic cheating. Not really sure how you're defending it. 

[Wortho]

8 hours ago, STUHILL said:

Wow, OK. I guess we will see how the appeal goes, but I'd be surprised if those three ex judges got much wrong, and it seems like the new tactic City are going for, is already contradicting their previous statements and evidence submitted, i.e they are trying to lie themselves out of their previous lies...

Personally, I would put them in League 2 if their appeal is unsuccessful, on top of a hefty fine and transfer ban. That will be the least of their worries though, as other clubs will be suing them relentlessly over the coming months and years. 

Which club from League 2 would be replaced or which promoted team from the National League will be denied promotion?

Have you thought this through?

[Chelmofox]

Just now, Wortho said:

Which club from League 2 would be replaced or which promoted team from the National League will be denied promotion?

Have you thought this through?

None of these are reasons for Man City evading any punishment. You seem to think the the punishments cause problems that should absorb them of blame.

[Tommy G]

44 pages and for some reason our fan base has got their head in a spin about it. I actually couldn't care less, I see the PL structure and FFP as a much bigger issue for the future of football. Quite enjoyed seeing the City fans wind up the scallys yesterday, was a top away day for them. 

[davieG]

11 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Every thought they've specifically done that so that when they're caught they'll get away with it?

 

It's classic sportswashing.

 

 

 

Honestly I want them to go down to the National League, but I doubt they'll even be relegated. The 2nd best option is watching them win the league this year, as it'll wind up all the other top teams.

 

Clubs should just be allowed to spend whatever they want, it's a farce.

That would create an even more uneven league and attract even more corrupt owners including Americans who'll want to change the whole League format with no relegation or promotion

11 hours ago, Wortho said:

The PL have ensured that the red cartel can spend as much as they want. Much to the detriment of LCFC who tried to keep up with them.

Currently Man Utd are in a billion pounds of debt.

Two wrongs don't make it right and unless proved illegal then they have worked within the current rules which are obviously biased to those that can carry massive debts.

[trooky]

1 hour ago, jammie82uk said:

Only because they brought players they wouldn’t have been able to afford to buy if they kept inside the rules 

Man Utd and Chelsea have been able to afford any player they wanted over the same period. They just wasted their money on a series of disastrous managerial appointments and transfers. 

 

We proved that it's possible to win the league without significant investment.

 

Whilst City have broken the rules, I'm not comfortable with the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal suing them trying to blame their failings on City's over-spending. 

 

These clubs and in particular Man U have not been run very well in the period when City have overspent. 

 

Tottenham have just spent £300 plus million and are still bottom, so I really hope these clubs do not benefit financially from City's demise. 

[trooky]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

44 pages and for some reason our fan base has got their head in a spin about it. I actually couldn't care less, I see the PL structure and FFP as a much bigger issue for the future of football. Quite enjoyed seeing the City fans wind up the scallys yesterday, was a top away day for them. 

Maybe because it makes a change from chatting about the same old shit at our club, it's been groundhog day for the past 5years. 

[Wortho]

1 hour ago, Chelmofox said:

None of these are reasons for Man City evading any punishment. You seem to think the the punishments cause problems that should absorb them of blame.

I think there is a long way to go and I’m not convinced they’re guilty. I don’t think that Etihad were even called to give evidence.

 

Leicester even exposed the PL’s rules so I’m not sure that the PL really know what they are doing.

[Chelmofox]

6 minutes ago, Wortho said:

I think there is a long way to go and I’m not convinced they’re guilty. I don’t think that Etihad were even called to give evidence.

 

Leicester even exposed the PL’s rules so I’m not sure that the PL really know what they are doing.

Why are you not convinced they are guilty? Because they said so?

If your point is proven then your punishment excuses aren't necessary? Seems strange that you link innocence to providing cash to the local area, and relegating them being a bit difficult for the EFL.

Edited 12 hours ago by Chelmofox

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, jammie82uk said:

Only because they brought players they wouldn’t have been able to afford to buy if they kept inside the rules 

 

I feel like I'm banging my head on a wall a bit here. 

 

I'm genuinely baffled by how many Leicester fans are towing the Sky Sports party line on this. 

 

Manchester United, Liverpool and Chelsea spend the same insane amount of money, the rules just let them do it because they helped write them, so they allow their ridiculous commercial revenue - which has nothing to do with footballing merit - offset their spending. 

 

United have access to almost unlimited resources, they're playing with the money cheats on essentially, yet they're still absolutely shit because the football side of their business has been almost as bad as ours post-Vichai ever since Ferguson retired. Nobody there knows how to run a modern football club. 

 

Man City haven't only been succesful because they broke the rules to spend a lot of money, they're succesful because they know HOW to spend that money. 

 

It's possible to be angry that they cheated and broke rules that we tried to stick to and got relegated as a result whilst still admiring the fact they're an extremely smartly run footballing operation. 

 

People need to learn to appreciate nuance, to hold multiple thoughts in their head that might be contrasting. 

 

As Leicester fans we're totally justified being angry IF Man City get off with an incredibly light punishment when we've essentially been hounded all the way down to the bottom of League One by points deductions and spending restrictions whilst they just ignore the rules and won titles. Yes. 

 

But fans of the other Big Six clubs being angry when Man City only just spent what they did? **** them. And **** anyone parroting their nonsense. The rules are unethical, protection racket nonsense and both us and Man City are ultimately victims of them. 

 

[Wortho]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I feel like I'm banging my head on a wall a bit here. 

 

I'm genuinely baffled by how many Leicester fans are towing the Sky Sports party line on this. 

 

Manchester United, Liverpool and Chelsea spend the same insane amount of money, the rules just let them do it because they helped write them, so they allow their ridiculous commercial revenue - which has nothing to do with footballing merit - offset their spending. 

 

United have access to almost unlimited resources, they're playing with the money cheats on essentially, yet they're still absolutely shit because the football side of their business has been almost as bad as ours post-Vichai ever since Ferguson retired. Nobody there knows how to run a modern football club. 

 

Man City haven't only been succesful because they broke the rules to spend a lot of money, they're succesful because they know HOW to spend that money. 

 

It's possible to be angry that they cheated and broke rules that we tried to stick to and got relegated as a result whilst still admiring the fact they're an extremely smartly run footballing operation. 

 

People need to learn to appreciate nuance, to hold multiple thoughts in their head that might be contrasting. 

 

As Leicester fans we're totally justified being angry IF Man City get off with an incredibly light punishment when we've essentially been hounded all the way down to the bottom of League One by points deductions and spending restrictions whilst they just ignore the rules and won titles. Yes. 

 

But fans of the other Big Six clubs being angry when Man City only just spent what they did? **** them. And **** anyone parroting their nonsense. The rules are unethical, protection racket nonsense and both us and Man City are ultimately victims of them. 

 

Great post and you’ve expressed your points than I’ve done.

 

People are taken in by the Sky, BBC and media bias and propaganda.

[kenny]

13 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I feel like I'm banging my head on a wall a bit here. 

 

I'm genuinely baffled by how many Leicester fans are towing the Sky Sports party line on this. 

 

Manchester United, Liverpool and Chelsea spend the same insane amount of money, the rules just let them do it because they helped write them, so they allow their ridiculous commercial revenue - which has nothing to do with footballing merit - offset their spending. 

 

United have access to almost unlimited resources, they're playing with the money cheats on essentially, yet they're still absolutely shit because the football side of their business has been almost as bad as ours post-Vichai ever since Ferguson retired. Nobody there knows how to run a modern football club. 

 

Man City haven't only been succesful because they broke the rules to spend a lot of money, they're succesful because they know HOW to spend that money. 

 

It's possible to be angry that they cheated and broke rules that we tried to stick to and got relegated as a result whilst still admiring the fact they're an extremely smartly run footballing operation. 

 

People need to learn to appreciate nuance, to hold multiple thoughts in their head that might be contrasting. 

 

As Leicester fans we're totally justified being angry IF Man City get off with an incredibly light punishment when we've essentially been hounded all the way down to the bottom of League One by points deductions and spending restrictions whilst they just ignore the rules and won titles. Yes. 

 

But fans of the other Big Six clubs being angry when Man City only just spent what they did? **** them. And **** anyone parroting their nonsense. The rules are unethical, protection racket nonsense and both us and Man City are ultimately victims of them. 

 

Bring on the World Super League and bin off the clubs that don't really want a sporting competition.

[jammie82uk]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

Man City haven't only been succesful because they broke the rules to spend a lot of money, they're succesful because they know HOW to spend that money. 

Still don’t take away from the fact they shouldn’t have even had that money in the first place 

 

they have been charged with breaking PSR for 9 consecutive seasons 

 

they have either lied to the premier league or the US government about where the money has came from 

That really sounds like a smart business move 

regardless what ever your opinion is on the state of the rules and whether you think they are fair is irreverent 

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by jammie82uk

[Finnegan]

9 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

Still don’t take away from the fact they shouldn’t have even had that money in the first place 

 

Sure. I'm not denying they've broken rules. 

 

I'm just pointing out the simple, basic truth:

 

Man City and Man Utd both play the Premier League game with the money cheats on, free to out spend everyone else in football. 

 

Manchester United blew that money, over-spending on rubbish, buying big names for clout, breaking transfer records for Pogba and Maguire, never once building an actual squad and ultimately embarrassing themselves at every turn. Won **** all. 

 

Man City built a club from the ground up  (including building scouting, data analytics, youth development and recruitment teams that don't contribute to their FFP / PSR failings) that absolutely humbles all of their immediate rivals in sporting intelligence and performance. They repeatedly built world class squads, made sensible signings, targeted the right player over the biggest name and have filled their trophy cabinet. 

 

They broke a **** load of rules doing so that the "Other 14" have tried to stick by, so they absolutely have gained an unfair advantage over us, Everton, Villa, Palace, West Ham, Newcastle, etc and I can understand fans of those clubs being angry about that. 

 

I'm just bored of seeing the media give oxygen to hypocritical United and Liverpool fans with zero sense of self awareness or irony, holding up signs like "Shamchester" and acting all hard done to and posturing when it's complete bullshit. 

 

They only have the trophies they do because the "Other 14" can't financially compete with them either. Just apparently that's all fair and fine because it's "legal" by the standards of the rules they made up with their cabal of mates to keep the shop closed. 

 

[STUHILL]

6 hours ago, trooky said:

They got our case totally wrong, when we got off on a technicality😂 

We knowingly broke the rules, they caught us and charged us. The only thing the Premier League got wrong, is the loophole we exploited due to our relegation, which they have now closed. Man City have also been found guilty of knowingly breaking the rules, so let's see if they manage to find a loophole for all 114 charges. I doubt they will though, as looks like their latest tactic is to say we were lying before in our previous submissions. I don't think that will wash at all. 

 

Whether the rules are fair and who they are meant to help and hurt, is another debate, and shouldn't be used to excuse cheating, whether us or Man City. 

[STUHILL]

5 hours ago, Wortho said:

Which club from League 2 would be replaced or which promoted team from the National League will be denied promotion?

Have you thought this through?

I have thought it through, but of course there is no easy solution, unless they are kicked out completely and have to start again at the bottom of the pyramid. I don't believe a simple points deduction and fine this season to relegate them to the Championship is sufficient punishment if they lose the appeal. I would support the idea of giving them multi-season deductions in agreement with the EFL, which would effectively relegate them to League 2 over 3 seasons. I believe anything less than that, due to the scale of their cheating and cover-up, would make a mockery of having any rules in our leagues.

[Lambert09]

3 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I feel like I'm banging my head on a wall a bit here. 

 

I'm genuinely baffled by how many Leicester fans are towing the Sky Sports party line on this. 

 

Manchester United, Liverpool and Chelsea spend the same insane amount of money, the rules just let them do it because they helped write them, so they allow their ridiculous commercial revenue - which has nothing to do with footballing merit - offset their spending. 

 

United have access to almost unlimited resources, they're playing with the money cheats on essentially, yet they're still absolutely shit because the football side of their business has been almost as bad as ours post-Vichai ever since Ferguson retired. Nobody there knows how to run a modern football club. 

 

Man City haven't only been succesful because they broke the rules to spend a lot of money, they're succesful because they know HOW to spend that money. 

 

It's possible to be angry that they cheated and broke rules that we tried to stick to and got relegated as a result whilst still admiring the fact they're an extremely smartly run footballing operation. 

 

People need to learn to appreciate nuance, to hold multiple thoughts in their head that might be contrasting. 

 

As Leicester fans we're totally justified being angry IF Man City get off with an incredibly light punishment when we've essentially been hounded all the way down to the bottom of League One by points deductions and spending restrictions whilst they just ignore the rules and won titles. Yes. 

 

But fans of the other Big Six clubs being angry when Man City only just spent what they did? **** them. And **** anyone parroting their nonsense. The rules are unethical, protection racket nonsense and both us and Man City are ultimately victims of them. 

 

Absolutely spot on. 
 

The argument that they only did it because they broke the rules is correct, but braking the rules that way did not guarantee success, in fact the odds were still against them. 

 

We’re outspending everyone in league 1 by about 1000% and we look like the worst club in the league. Football is a money sport, so spending still needs to have incredibly clever planning to get results. Being a non traditional big 6 club meant that for man city to fairly compete, money was the only option… that’s the exact reason these rules were put in place because they don’t want other teams to be able to compete.  
 

If any of this was about fairness, then every club would have the exact same spending limits 

  

Edited 8 hours ago by Lambert09

[Wortho]

1 minute ago, STUHILL said:

I have thought it through, but of course there is no easy solution, unless they are kicked out completely and have to start again at the bottom of the pyramid. I don't believe a simple points deduction and fine this season to relegate them to the Championship is sufficient punishment if they lose the appeal. I would support the idea of giving them multi-season deductions in agreement with the EFL, which would effectively relegate them to League 2 over 3 seasons. I believe anything less than that, due to the scale of their cheating and cover-up, would make a mockery of having any rules in our leagues.

I don’t think works. The PL are totally independent to the EFL. 
So your theory is that a team who wins their play off final won’t be promoted? And this will happen for three seasons!!

Also, the red cartel plus Chelsea and Spurs wanted to leave the PL to join a European super league. Like they are dedicated to the PL.

[davieG]

Surely it's nothing to do with how successful they've been it's simply down to breaking the rules. 

 

There's two bad things here.

 

1 Man City broke the rules.

2 Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Spurs are all benefiting from those rules by having enough income to allow them to carry massive debts.

 

We should put a lot of the blame of that on the 14 (this covers a lot of clubs who've been part of that 14 over the years) because they've allowed it happen either blindly, sycophantically or due to delusions of grandeur, that's you LCFC. 

[davieG]

5 minutes ago, Wortho said:

The PL are totally independent to the EFL.

They have agreements over relegation ask LCFC

[STUHILL]

4 minutes ago, Wortho said:

I don’t think works. The PL are totally independent to the EFL. 
So your theory is that a team who wins their play off final won’t be promoted? And this will happen for three seasons!!

Also, the red cartel plus Chelsea and Spurs wanted to leave the PL to join a European super league. Like they are dedicated to the PL.

This (ironically) changed due to us and our points deduction. In our case, the EFL invoked its specific regulatory powers (Regulation 87.7), which allowed it to directly mirror and implement financial penalties handed down by independent Premier League panels. The same can be done for Man City. 

My theory is that Man City will be relegated from the Premier League, the Championship and then League 1 due to multi-season point deductions that make it impossible for them to avoid relegation. It would be similar to any other team that would suffer multiple relegations, therefore not impacting other teams apart from benefiting teams who would have likely found themselves in the final relegation place had Man City not been there.

As I said, there is no clean or simple solution, but that does not mean Man City should not be punished. 

[trooky]

1 hour ago, STUHILL said:

We knowingly broke the rules, they caught us and charged us. The only thing the Premier League got wrong, is the loophole we exploited due to our relegation, which they have now closed. Man City have also been found guilty of knowingly breaking the rules, so let's see if they manage to find a loophole for all 114 charges. I doubt they will though, as looks like their latest tactic is to say we were lying before in our previous submissions. I don't think that will wash at all. 

 

Whether the rules are fair and who they are meant to help and hurt, is another debate, and shouldn't be used to excuse cheating, whether us or Man City. 

I personally hope they find a loop hole, the PL are playing the victim in all of this but this happened under their noses for 9 years. 

 

They only investigated it because of hacked emails, what the **** were the Premier League doing for those 9 years? 

 

The whole media frenzy has been on Man City, but what about the PL and their unbelievable incompetence.

 

They're were enough warning signs from UEFA, but the PL were happy to turn a blind eye when Man City were helping build their brand.

 

I hold the PL complicit in all of this farce, they let this drag for 17 years, destroyed the integrity of their own competition. 

 

Man City will be punished eventually but I hope they take the PL down with them. 

 

Football needs a financial reset with fair economic rules for all clubs, not the current cartel. 

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by trooky

[Wortho]

44 minutes ago, davieG said:

They have agreements over relegation ask LCFC

I thought we were in the bottom three?

[Corky]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Sure. I'm not denying they've broken rules. 

 

I'm just pointing out the simple, basic truth:

 

Man City and Man Utd both play the Premier League game with the money cheats on, free to out spend everyone else in football. 

 

Manchester United blew that money, over-spending on rubbish, buying big names for clout, breaking transfer records for Pogba and Maguire, never once building an actual squad and ultimately embarrassing themselves at every turn. Won **** all. 

 

Man City built a club from the ground up  (including building scouting, data analytics, youth development and recruitment teams that don't contribute to their FFP / PSR failings) that absolutely humbles all of their immediate rivals in sporting intelligence and performance. They repeatedly built world class squads, made sensible signings, targeted the right player over the biggest name and have filled their trophy cabinet. 

 

They broke a **** load of rules doing so that the "Other 14" have tried to stick by, so they absolutely have gained an unfair advantage over us, Everton, Villa, Palace, West Ham, Newcastle, etc and I can understand fans of those clubs being angry about that. 

 

I'm just bored of seeing the media give oxygen to hypocritical United and Liverpool fans with zero sense of self awareness or irony, holding up signs like "Shamchester" and acting all hard done to and posturing when it's complete bullshit. 

 

They only have the trophies they do because the "Other 14" can't financially compete with them either. Just apparently that's all fair and fine because it's "legal" by the standards of the rules they made up with their cabal of mates to keep the shop closed. 

 

And lots of those supporters have enjoyed Man City winning titles as it has prevented their rivals doing so. Liverpool fans cheered Agueroooo, Man Utd revelled in Slippy G, Tottenham fans were actively cheering them on to stop Arsenal winning the league (Postecoglou had a row about it with supporters). Nothing about the organic clubs sticking together, was there?