harpendenfox Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 I have to say I loathe the idea of switching manager yet again. Since MON we've had Taylor, Bassett, Adams, Levein and Kelly. 5 in 5 and a half years. In any organisation such change is likely to be detrimental. I was happy for Kelly to take over earlier in the year - not least because no one else seemed to want to join us - but I think it's our approach, rather than simply tactics, that is at fault. A few long weeks ago we sneaked into the top half of the table. We beat Stoke (look where they are now). We were trading places with Derby (look where they are now). We had a real chance to consolidate in the top half. We've messed it up big time. The killer moment appears to have been when we conceded that late equaliser to Plymouth. Since then we've lost three games, and by all accounts barely turned up. We never look to kill teams off. Rather we seem to approach each match like a game of chess, absorning the opposition's attacks and waiting for a gap, or until they lose concentration. The problem with our cunning plan being that we're not good enough to absorb pressure for so long. Of course people will make individual mistakes - even the best players do that. That seems to be what happened against Plymouth We have to change our approach and play to a higher tempo, and look to beat teams, rather than not lose to them. Way back in January we looked to beat QPR at their place, and we did. We didn't play brilliantly, but we looked to win. I suspect that until we change our approach, not necessarily our personnel, we will continue to struggle. If we change our approach I think we should be a top half team. With the personnel we have I do not think we can aspire to promotion, but we should be looking to finish 10th, then build on that next season.
uncle_connolly Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 The Tactics are often poor. The Players are often poor. When you put the two together, we end up being very very poor. There is often the age old excuse of money. But there are quite a few teams above us with no money. So it's not an excuse. The simple fact is we don't make use of what we have, in any way shape or form. So it's no suprise that we end up looking utterly clueless. that excuse may be age old but its so true. the more I watch teams who have money doing well, the money justified that excuse is. we dont want to use it as an excuse, but dont say its not valid in any sense.
The People's Hero Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 that excuse may be age old but its so true. the more I watch teams who have money doing well, the money justified that excuse is. we dont want to use it as an excuse, but dont say its not valid in any sense. Not true. Simply not true. There are plenty of examples of club's in this country with no money doing well whilst those with money do not. The money situation doesn't help at LCFC but it certainly does not excuse the performances nor the results and subsequent league position.
Thracian Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 What has that got to do with the price of cheese. You made out the squad is his fault and he has had the time and resources to do it his way. He hasn't end of... doesn't mean he hasn't sent out a team with shit tactics, signed poor players. But that wasn't the argument. Kelly didn't choose every player at the club - what manager does - but he doesn't have to use every player at the club and can replace those he's no happy with. Other managers do. He could have sold someone to get funds in the summer, he could have done lots of things.
breadandcheese Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 Kelly didn't choose every player at the club - what manager does - but he doesn't have to use every player at the club and can replace those he's no happy with. Other managers do. He could have sold someone to get funds in the summer, he could have done lots of things. There are a number of things I would love to know from behind the scenes. Namely: 1) What happened with the proposed Maybury bid from Sunderland? 2) Why we were talking about loan players arriving at the club a few weeks ago and then talking about no money available for loans? We are now in a situation where we are pinning our hopes on rushing back Weso and Williams, one who barely manages to go 5 games without injury, the other who has yet to convince (although I do rate). Tis a shame.
davieG Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 There are a number of things I would love to know from behind the scenes. Namely: 1) What happened with the proposed Maybury bid from Sunderland? 2) Why we were talking about loan players arriving at the club a few weeks ago and then talking about no money available for loans? We are now in a situation where we are pinning our hopes on rushing back Weso and Williams, one who barely manages to go 5 games without injury, the other who has yet to convince (although I do rate). Tis a shame. When you find the answer can you let me know because I'd be very interested to know as well.
Babylon Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 Kelly didn't choose every player at the club - what manager does Managers that have been at a club quite a while do. He hasn't, hence your point about having time to rectify the whole squad to one hw wants are wide of the mark. Kelly didn't choose every player at the club - what manager does - but he doesn't have to use every player at the club and can replace those he's no happy with. Other managers do. He could have sold someone to get funds in the summer, he could have done lots of things. Could have sold someone? Do you know about bids that we don't then? Sunderland Bid for Stearman, but their valuation was well below the boards and ours so that was a no go from the off. What are these lots of things you speak of?
breadandcheese Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 When you find the answer can you let me know because I'd be very interested to know as well. Will do. I was thinking of slapping on a bit of fake tan, putting on a suave accent and marching down to the Walkers claiming to be Milan. See if I can get access to the highest levels within the club.
davieG Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 Will do. I was thinking of slapping on a bit of fake tan, putting on a suave accent and marching down to the Walkers claiming to be Milan. See if I can get access to the highest levels within the club. Or you could put on an American accent and pretend to be one of the secret Yankie bidders, I'm sure they've never met any of them.
Thracian Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 Managers that have been at a club quite a while do. He hasn't, hence your point about having time to rectify the whole squad to one hw wants are wide of the mark. Could have sold someone? Do you know about bids that we don't then? Sunderland Bid for Stearman, but their valuation was well below the boards and ours so that was a no go from the off. What are these lots of things you speak of? If I were a manager and wanted certain people - and I mean realistic incomers - then I would find the way and the means. If that meant selling someone - be it Stearman, Kisnorbo or anyone else as a means to an end, then I wouldn't hesitate. That might mean accepting less than your valuation. Nothing new in that. I accept less than my valuation of all sorts of things every day of my life and especially if some other purchase has priority in my mind. It depends how much you want something. Other things. Well I've touched on them ofter enough. For a start he didn't need to waste wages on Johnson. Or Low. Or Welsh. Or Tiatto and Kenton though both might be said to have done okay. That's five things and I could give you more but we wouldn't agree on them.
Babylon Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 If I were a manager and wanted certain people - and I mean realistic incomers - then I would find the way and the means. If that meant selling someone - be it Stearman, Kisnorbo or anyone else as a means to an end, then I wouldn't hesitate. That might mean accepting less than your valuation. Nothing new in that. I accept less than my valuation of all sorts of things every day of my life and especially if some other purchase has priority in my mind. It depends how much you want something. Other things. Well I've touched on them ofter enough. For a start he didn't need to waste wages on Johnson. Or Low. Or Welsh. Or Tiatto and Kenton though both might be said to have done okay. That's five things and I could give you more but we wouldn't agree on them. 5 things? Accepting bids that are half a players valuation and not signing the players he did... that's two things. People would have gone nuts had stearman been sold for 1million. Not signing players he wanted to sign is not exactly a valid way of restructuring the squad the way he wanted it. Lets agree to disagree again.
DB11 Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 I think it is mainly the tactics but too many players too often have a 'bad game'... or at least that is what we put it down to...
The People's Hero Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 I think it is mainly the tactics but too many players too often have a 'bad game'... or at least that is what we put it down to... You forgot that all the refs are against us too.. Oh but don't worry, we'll be redoubling our efforts on the training pitch!!!
Babylon Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 Oh but don't worry, we'll be redoubling our efforts on the training pitch!!! AGAIN!!!!!! Surely that means since the summer our efforts have increased by at least x 500. What were they doing in preseason training, sitting round in deckchairs?
Lord Nibblington Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 AGAIN!!!!!! Surely that means since the summer our efforts have increased by at least x 500. What were they doing in preseason training, sitting round in deckchairs? I rather think that the redoubling has meant they've now just reached the lounging around in deckchairs stage. Before twas staying at home all tucked up in bed.
Manwell Pablo Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 If I were a manager and wanted certain people - and I mean realistic incomers - then I would find the way and the means. If that meant selling someone - be it Stearman, Kisnorbo or anyone else as a means to an end, then I wouldn't hesitate. That might mean accepting less than your valuation. Nothing new in that. I accept less than my valuation of all sorts of things every day of my life and especially if some other purchase has priority in my mind. It depends how much you want something. Other things. Well I've touched on them ofter enough. For a start he didn't need to waste wages on Johnson. Or Low. Or Welsh. Or Tiatto and Kenton though both might be said to have done okay. That's five things and I could give you more but we wouldn't agree on them. Might be said to have done okay? I think we're missing Kenton badly, and Tiatto has been just as good as Porter this season. Andy Welsh is the big one for me. We can get rid of him anytime we want, but we don't <_<
Babylon Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 Might be said to have done okay? I think we're missing Kenton badly, and Tiatto has been just as good as Porter this season. Andy Welsh is the big one for me. We can get rid of him anytime we want, but we don't <_< His wages are only about £50 a week anyway, doubt we'd get much better with that.
davieG Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 Motivational Team Talk in progress & getting to grips with the tactics.
Babylon Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 Motivational Team Talk in progress & getting to grips with the tactics. Looks a bit like Fryatt.
Thracian Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 Might be said to have done okay? I think we're missing Kenton badly, and Tiatto has been just as good as Porter this season. Andy Welsh is the big one for me. We can get rid of him anytime we want, but we don't <_< You're missing my point on Kenton and Tiatto. I'm not saying they've not done okay. I'm saying that if I wanted someone like Hendrie or Berger on loan - or anyone else who might have some impact - then I might have saved money by not having someone else. I don't think we ever needed three right backs. We could as easily have taken a few bob for Maybury and saved his wages. As it is we've got three right backs and even with one injured we're playing one of em out of position for whatever reason. Qutie agree about Welsh - so that's another thing that could have been done.
Simi Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 In my opinon it is a bit of both. Fair enough we dont have the best players but we have the ability to beat half the teams that we have failed to win against so maybe the tactics are to blame. Only time will tell. If a new manager is to come in and do well with the players we have now, which is unlikely, then we will know that it was the tactics that were to blame.
shiv Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 from what i've seen its definately the tactics. we're playing the long ball to 5ft strikers!
Dr The Singh Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 from what i've seen its definately the tactics. we're playing the long ball to 5ft strikers! Welcome!!
Daggers Posted 29 November 2006 Posted 29 November 2006 AGAIN!!!!!! Surely that means since the summer our efforts have increased by at least x 500. What were they doing in preseason training, sitting round in deckchairs? Actually, even if we have been redoubling our efforts after every game then the players would only be currently training at 1,048,576 times that which they started the season at. Quite frankly, it simply isn't good enough.
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