Madeleine McCann

[Jon the Hat]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2084844,00.html

Don't know about the East Midlands area but nothing on the news in South Wales.

The 11 year old missing in Cambridge has been found. BBC

Edited 21 May 2007 by Jon the Hat

[Trumpet]

Agree with what? If you are bored of the subject then I suggest you don't read it.

Agree with what you said?

[Jon the Hat]

Agree with what you said?

So the fact that Madeline was on her own means that this shouldn't be a news story?

[Thracian]

Everytime I open this thread it's in the hope of news that she's been found alive.

[Ric Flair]

Everytime I open this thread it's in the hope of news that she's been found alive.

Same here, but instead it's usually just a few more pages of arguing that's been added.

[Chandler]

I can't help noticing a lot of the inconsistencies, discrepancies and omissions in the reporting of the disappearance of Maddie McCann. I invite others to add to my own little rap sheet here.

1) More than one person witnessed a male hanging around the appartments at the Warner Resort (who fled when challenged). This incident was reported to Warner staff who took no action at all. Yet it was the McCanns and not the resort who took the flak (for leaving Maddie unattended).

2) Much was made of the fact early on that an intruder entered the McCanns appartment. But a scent picked up by sniffer dogs indicated that Maddie left the flat by herself and that she had wandered down to a local supermarket (suggesting the abductor was a local opportunist). So why:

a) was it not mentioned that the sniffer dogs belonged to a British ex pat and were only brought in nearly a week after Maddie's disppearance?

b) were only 500 appartments searched in the first 7 days (four officers working in pairs could easily do that)?

c) was the local search reported as being wound down as early as Saturday 12th May - little more than a week after Maddie's abduction?

3) Why did the Portuguese police violate their own law of judicial secrecy by feeding information to the press about Murat and others by:

a) stating he was already under investigation when suspicions about him were voiced by a Daily Mirror hack?

b) tipping off the Portuguese media that he had been released from questioning?

c) informing the press that he had asked friends to provide an alibi?

d) informing the press that he had acted suspiciously when hiring a car?

4) What has happened to that much publicised lead of a man in the company of another male and a female photographing Maddie on the beach (a similar male was reported photographing another girl less than 20 miles away on the same day) and a party fitting this description seen at a filling station in the region with a child fitting Maddie McCann's description? Is this what the Murat fit-up was all about? Or is there something else going on here?

A man publicly photographing children and a woman possibly being in an abduction party suggest something altogether more sinister than an opportunitst crime. It could be that Maddie was stolen to order and that the kidnapping was officially sanctioned.

5) Considering how big a crisis it was when it broke five years ago the Casa Pia orphanage scandal has rarely been mentioned in the British media recently. Yet it is extremely relevant to the Maddie McCann case: children (mainly boys) kidnapped to serve a paedophile ring based in Lisbon that included government ministers. Many of the children kidnapped for this ring are still missing and representatives of the Swiss based group 'Innocence In Danger' that campaign for them have been threatened when visiting Portugal.

6) The MO of the possible suspects in the McCann case are eerily reminiscent of Marc Dutroux (his wife and a male friend helped him abduct young girls). It is generally accepted that he procured for a Belgian state sponsored ring. In the lead up to his eventual prosecution two years ago 30 witnesses (yes that's THIRTY) reportedly died - the vast majority in suspicious circumstances.

7) Conspiracy of Silence, a documentary listed for viewing in TV Guide Magazine was to be aired on the Discovery Channel, on May 3 1994. This documentary exposed a network of religious leaders and Washington politicians who flew children to Washington D.C. for sex orgies. Many children suffered the indignity of wearing nothing but their underwear and a number displayed on a piece of cardboard hanging from their necks when being auctioned off to foreigners in Las Vegas, Nevada, and Toronto, Canada.

At the last minute before airing, unknown congressmen threatened the TV Cable industry with restrictive legislation if this documentary was aired. Almost immediately, the rights to the documentary were purchased by unknown persons who ordered all copies destroyed. It is believed now that the ring was set up by the CIA to blackmail politicians and public figures and was known as 'Operation Monarch' (and the victims became known as the 'Monarch Butterflies').

Last year's Congressional Page scandal is possible evidence that this programme still exists.

8) There is much evidence that such rings have existed in the UK the most notorious being the Kincora Boys Home scandal in Belfast in the '70's and another organised by Thomas Hamilton the Dunblane spree killer (although abductions are not alleged to have taken place in either case).

I believe there is more to the Maddie McCann case than we are being told. If, unfortunately my suspicions are right then all the pledges and the 24/7 rolling news coverage of her abduction will make it less likely that she will ever be found alive (when pressured in this way the state will generally behave with extreme ruthlessness).

It's looking like the only solution is intense behind the scenes diplomacy and putting it very diplomatically I'd say there was less than a 50% chance that this is going on as we speak.

[Mack]

A very interesting read.

It's obvious that the Portuguese Police are not trained or equipped to the standard of UK Police when it comes to such cases.

I would also suggest that the intense media spotlight lead them to break some of their own rules in an attempt to get some breathing space to conduct an investigation.

The problem with the Portuguese system is that it leads to the media feeding and reporting rumor rather than fact. That then leads to rumor becoming reported fact and the whole investigation gets clouded.

Sadly the bottom line is that all the McCann's children were left unattended and in danger by their parents, and when the dust settles it will be them that has to live with that for the rest of their lives.

[Katy]

I've been loathed to criticise the parents but after they released that last known picture of Madeleine yesterday, I've wanted to smack them.

I've never condoned them leaving their children on their own and it's not something i'd ever do, whatever the situation and I felt that they were being punished enough by losing their lovely daughter, BUT seeing that picture of her having a lovely time with her dad and her sister not 8 hours before (God only knows what happened as the Police don't seem to) she went missing makes me even more cross that she was left. She should be starting School on the same day as my daughter, she won't be, she will never be found now.

Why don't the Police just admit defeat and get some experienced help in?

[Head Honcho]

A very interesting read.

It's obvious that the Portuguese Police are not trained or equipped to the standard of UK Police when it comes to such cases.

I would also suggest that the intense media spotlight lead them to break some of their own rules in an attempt to get some breathing space to conduct an investigation.

The problem with the Portuguese system is that it leads to the media feeding and reporting rumor rather than fact. That then leads to rumor becoming reported fact and the whole investigation gets clouded.

Sadly the bottom line is that all the McCann's children were left unattended and in danger by their parents, and when the dust settles it will be them that has to live with that for the rest of their lives.

That's a typical pompous Brit view!

Who's qualified to say how much time and effort the Portuguese police have put into this investigation.

They may have assessed the risk of finding her as minimal(which is normally the case) and made a rational decision not to put too many resources into it. They may on the other hand have done the complete opposite, we don't know!

The press have strung this along to suit their own needs and attacking the Portuguese police was an easy option.

[Head Honcho]

Maddies Mum has just compared having a drink in the garden with the kids tucked up in bed upstairs to the night of her disappearance.

Words fail me.

[James.]

Maddies Mum has just compared having a drink in the garden with the kids tucked up in bed upstairs to the night of her disappearance.

Words fail me.

I see your point although she's probably trying to quell her own guilt. Understandable I guess.

[Head Honcho]

I see your point although she's probably trying to quell her own guilt. Understandable I guess.

True.

I'm still trying to understand how two highly intelligent people could do such a thing.(not that intelligence has anything to do with it).

Everytime I see pictures of Maddy I get more angry and seeing them trying to justify their actions doesn't seem right somehow.

Edited 25 May 2007 by Allen

[Chandler]

True.

I'm still trying to understand how two highly intelligent people could do such a thing.(not that intelligence has anything to do with it).

Everytime I see pictures of Maddy I get more angry and seeing them trying to justify their actions doesn't seem right somehow.

Initially, I must confess, I felt the same way. And I believe like many the McCann's publicity drive is partly fuelled by guilt. If it is ever conclusively proved that Maddie's abduction was a crime of opportunity then the McCanns will have to accept publicly that they contributed to it through their own negligence.

But what if it was not a crime of opportunity? What if Maddie's abduction was planned and, even worse, officially sanctioned?

[costadelboy]

As a father myself i find it heartwrenching that the mccanns daughter has been kidnapped.

I get the feeling however that due to the intense media spotlight on this case may be preventing the kidnappers from releasing madeline.

[Head Honcho]

Initially, I must confess, I felt the same way. And I believe like many the McCann's publicity drive is partly fuelled by guilt. If it is ever conclusively proved that Maddie's abduction was a crime of opportunity then the McCanns will have to accept publicly that they contributed to it through their own negligence.

But what if it was not a crime of opportunity? What if Maddie's abduction was planned and, even worse, officially sanctioned?

What do you mean? To spite the McCann's or abducted to order?

I watched Man on Fire last night. I think it said someone is kidnapped in South America every 30 minutes.

[Webbo]

What do you mean? To spite the McCann's or abducted to order?

I watched Man on Fire last night. I think it said someone is kidnapped in South America every 30 minutes.

I must admit I was curious when Chandeler said 'officially sanctioned', I was nearly going to ask what he meant, but he would probably have told us.

[Guest]

I must admit I was curious when Chandeler said 'officially sanctioned', I was nearly going to ask what he meant, but he would probably have told us.

He did, in post #206.

[Head Honcho]

They even want to get the Pope in on the act now!

I don't get it. They're strong Catholics, yet they've had IVF treatment.

Doesn't that go against all Catholic dogma?

[AoWW]

They even want to get the Pope in on the act now!

I don't get it. They're strong Catholics, yet they've had IVF treatment.

Doesn't that go against all Catholic dogma?

Erm, I'm no expert in Catholicism but as far as I'm aware IVF does, indeed, go against the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. But then how many people follow their own religious convictions only as and when it suits them?

I wasn't aware though that the McCanns had had IVF and I don't really see the relevance to finding Madeline.

I must admit though that getting the Pope involved seems little more than a publicity stunt.

[Head Honcho]

Erm, I'm no expert in Catholicism but as far as I'm aware IVF does, indeed, go against the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. But then how many people follow their own religious convictions only as and when it suits them?

I wasn't aware though that the McCanns had had IVF and I don't really see the relevance to finding Madeline.

I must admit though that getting the Pope involved seems little more than a publicity stunt.

They had IVF for the twins and I doubt the Pope would give them an audience knowing they'd had IVF.

Don't get me wrong if it keeps the campaign going then good luck to them, just seems a bit strange to me and it's probably something the press have started again without much substance.

[Guest]

They even want to get the Pope in on the act now!

I don't get it. They're strong Catholics, yet they've had IVF treatment.

Doesn't that go against all Catholic dogma?

It sums up the way society is, to be fair.

[Thracian]

As a father myself i find it heartwrenching that the mccanns daughter has been kidnapped.

I get the feeling however that due to the intense media spotlight on this case may be preventing the kidnappers from releasing madeline.

If only such people thought like that.

[Head Honcho]

It sums up the way society is, to be fair.

I doubt very much if Pope Benedict gives them an audience though.

He was head of the CDF(holy office) and they've released many statements against IVF.

[MC Prussian]

What surprises me most, still after all these weeks is the calm and even cold way the couple withhold their feelings.

They're on TV all week, giving out statements on a daily basis all emotionless.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't parents usually a bit more emotional?

[Guest]

What surprises me most, still after all these weeks is the calm and even cold way the couple withhold their feelings.

They're on TV all week, giving out statements on a daily basis all emotionless.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't parents usually a bit more emotional?

Different people react in very different ways, Alex.