Scow Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Also how can you count disallowed goals, surely if you do that you have to count every offside as the only differnece between an average offside and a disallowed goal is how quick the whistle goes. This only applies to Hammond because he is special. He also counts chances and inadvertent touches that occasionally fall for us.
Ultra Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 BY the same token that peolple say we shouldn't judge holloway until he has his own team I think it's premature to judge certain individual players, particualarly the mid-fielders which are largely makeshift and incomplete.Would we be judging Muzzy or Lennon if they were in our midfield as I doubt they'd be looking much better. In fact i can remember Muzzy taking quite a bit of stick after Lennon and Savage left. Muzzy was playing in a poor Premier League team with managers to match. It's not surprising his form suffered for a while. But it did recover, even when he was playing alongside the likes of Junior Lewis or Matt Jones. Clemence knew when he arrived here that he would be expected to take on a lot of responsibility. To date he hasn't quite managed it. And the time for making excuses has long since passed.
breadandcheese Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Muzzy was playing in a poor Premier League team with managers to match. It's not surprising his form suffered for a while. But it did recover, even when he was playing alongside the likes of Junior Lewis or Matt Jones.Clemence knew when he arrived here that he would be expected to take on a lot of responsibility. To date he hasn't quite managed it. And the time for making excuses has long since passed. I'm not quite sure what people expect of Clemence. A bit of perspective is needed. He cannot single-handedly control a midfield. When your squad is so exposed that you field a midfield of Hume, N'Gotty, Clemence and Chambers (or Fryatt as it was at one-point against QPR), it is no surprise that our midfield is easily exposed. This thread should not be a diatribe at scape-goating midfield players, more a desperate plea to get in some more talent so we're not having to play defenders or strikers (in midfield) and can balance the team.
Manwell Pablo Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Muzzy was playing in a poor Premier League team with managers to match. It's not surprising his form suffered for a while. But it did recover, even when he was playing alongside the likes of Junior Lewis or Matt Jones.Clemence knew when he arrived here that he would be expected to take on a lot of responsibility. To date he hasn't quite managed it. And the time for making excuses has long since passed. So Muzzy was playing in a poor side with managers to match......what side is Stephen Clemance playing in exactly AC Barcalonachester United? And managers how many have we had since he's been here 4 in total? We're twice as bad now as we were then! At least Lewis and Jones were midfielders Clemance has defenders around him. You vindicate Muzzy with excuses that could easily apply to Clemance and then say the time for excuses has passed?? The blokes only been here half a season! Jesus.
Tommy G Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 He certainly shouldn't be Captain. massively over rated and thinks he is bigger than the club! Perhaps sorting his ego will benefit himself and the other around him
lildave3 Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 He certainly shouldn't be Captain. massively over rated and thinks he is bigger than the club! Perhaps sorting his ego will benefit himself and the other around him Explain this.
Ultra Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Clemence is presumably on Premier League wages, as he wouldn't have moved from Brum otherwise. So it's not unrealistic to expect Premier League performances from him. He hasn't delivered them very often though. By the way, when Muzzy first came to us the side was struggling, the dressing room was in turmoil and the fans were in open revolt. It was a tough challenge for him. But he met it, and went on to become part of arguably our all-time best midfield. I doubt very much whether Clemence will get anywhere near matching those achievements, no matter who plays alongside him.
mancunianfox Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Clemence is presumably on Premier League wages, as he wouldn't have moved from Brum otherwise.So it's not unrealistic to expect Premier League performances from him. He hasn't delivered them very often though. By the way, when Muzzy first came to us the side was struggling, the dressing room was in turmoil and the fans were in open revolt. It was a tough challenge for him. But he met it, and went on to become part of arguably our all-time best midfield. I doubt very much whether Clemence will get anywhere near matching those achievements, no matter who plays alongside him. Clemence and Muzzy are very different players though. I haven't been impressed by Clemence but to be fair he will never be a creative force in midfield because he isn't that type of player. By playing him alongside defenders we are playing him in a position that doesn't suit his game. I think the only way that we will see the best of Clemence is if he has some midfielders around him who want to get forward.
The People's Hero Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Clemence is presumably on Premier League wages, as he wouldn't have moved from Brum otherwise.So it's not unrealistic to expect Premier League performances from him. He hasn't delivered them very often though. Yeah but presumably someone pays you money to do something and you're a complete cu nt. Not to mention the girls on Market Street you pay your grubby money too. What are they? The highest calibre of women (that money can buy).
breadandcheese Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Clemence is presumably on Premier League wages, as he wouldn't have moved from Brum otherwise.So it's not unrealistic to expect Premier League performances from him. He hasn't delivered them very often though. By the way, when Muzzy first came to us the side was struggling, the dressing room was in turmoil and the fans were in open revolt. It was a tough challenge for him. But he met it, and went on to become part of arguably our all-time best midfield. I doubt very much whether Clemence will get anywhere near matching those achievements, no matter who plays alongside him. The point here is he didn't meet it alone. He was helped by arguably the greatest team Leicester has seen over the last thirty years. He was also helped by arguably the best midfielder I have seen in a City shirt (Neil Lennon) as well as two very good players in Garry Parker and Robbie Savage.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 The point here is he didn't meet it alone. He was helped by arguably the greatest team Leicester has seen over the last thirty years. He was also helped by arguably the best midfielder I have seen in a City shirt (Neil Lennon) as well as two very good players in Garry Parker and Robbie Savage. Exactly, and there's nothing to say that wouldn't happen again if we signed three or four midfielders of that quality to play alongside Clemence. There are a lot of things wrong with this club but if you strip away most of the shite, you are left with a good Championship midfielder who we should be building a team around, not using as a scapegoat.
Wherethefoxhat? Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 who else agrees with mehe is absolutley fukin useless.. and im not one of those fans who bitches about everyone if City lose.. i just think he hasn't done anything good all season..... £1.5 million - wtf he keeps saying that the team have learnt a lesson and that we are looking to improve after every game.. well our players aren't a clever bunch because were 21st in the league my opinion , sell him off and buy a whole new set of midfielders What a load of bo--ocks !!
Maybes Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 He wasn't voted birmingham's player of the season last year for nothing you know. . .
davieG Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 The point here is he didn't meet it alone. He was helped by arguably the greatest team Leicester has seen over the last thirty years. He was also helped by arguably the best midfielder I have seen in a City shirt (Neil Lennon) as well as two very good players in Garry Parker and Robbie Savage. Exactly, and there's nothing to say that wouldn't happen again if we signed three or four midfielders of that quality to play alongside Clemence.There are a lot of things wrong with this club but if you strip away most of the shite, you are left with a good Championship midfielder who we should be building a team around, not using as a scapegoat. I'm glad some people were able to see the point I was trying to make
The People's Hero Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 There are a lot of things wrong with this club but if you strip away most of the shite, you are left with a good Championship midfielder who we should be building a team around, not using as a scapegoat. Hallelujah. Fez - come and live in the country with me. We'll have no internet connection. We can live in sin. Or anywhere really.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Hallelujah.Fez - come and live in the country with me. We'll have no internet connection. We can live in sin. Or anywhere really. We can make such foolhardy plans at Southampton, yes?
breadandcheese Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 I'm glad some people were able to see the point I was trying to make There's a reason why I consider you to be the elder wiser statesman of Foxestalk.
davieG Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 There's a reason why I consider you to be the elder wiser statesman of Foxestalk. I'm quite happy for people to disagree I've been wrong many a time.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 I'm quite happy for people to disagree I've been wrong many a time. I disagree.
James. Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 I've avoided this mainly due to the title of the thread and my subsequent opinion of the poster who created it. Is it fair to say there are quite a few people saying he's well shit when actually he has shit around him and is someone we shouldn't be having a pop at. In a similar mould to Chambers, to some extent Fryatt and any other player who needs better quality around him/be played in the right position in order to thrive. Whenever I've seen him he's looked decent. Not taken the division by storm but quite how he is expected to do that in a team like ours is beyond me. I've rarely seen him play particularly badly and I certainly can't fault his work rate and his apparent desire to play for the club.
Bert Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Depends what you count as an assist. I prefer to consider the whole picture including easy chances created for others and missed, disallowed goals and go on because it demonstrates more accurately who is supplying the majority of creative passes.And I don't think it has been Clemence. Go and have a look on the football league website on the official stats. Sheehan aint even in there. I'd rather believe the official stats than adding in disallowed goals to make your chosen one look better.
Super Arj Posted 3 January 2008 Author Posted 3 January 2008 I've avoided this mainly due to the title of the thread and my subsequent opinion of the poster who created it.Is it fair to say there are quite a few people saying he's well shit when actually he has shit around him and is someone we shouldn't be having a pop at. In a similar mould to Chambers, to some extent Fryatt and any other player who needs better quality around him/be played in the right position in order to thrive. Whenever I've seen him he's looked decent. Not taken the division by storm but quite how he is expected to do that in a team like ours is beyond me. I've rarely seen him play particularly badly and I certainly can't fault his work rate and his apparent desire to play for the club. you make a good point - but see where im coming from, dont you think he slacks when leicester are losing oh well, different people have different opinions
Raj Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Clemo had a trciky few games recently but i thought he got over it. Hes still our best midfielder on his day.....suppose that dont mean much does it????
Bert Posted 3 January 2008 Posted 3 January 2008 Clemo had a trciky few games recently but i thought he got over it.Hes still our best midfielder on his day.....suppose that dont mean much does it???? No. Because he's not got us to the top of the league and he hasn't scored every single game he's played in either.
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