Ultra Posted 3 February 2008 Posted 3 February 2008 And how many 30+ signings have we made during this time, who have made zero contributions to our team? W*se Howey Pressman Keown Blake Dublin Wilcox Johnson Newton ..to name but a few. The fact that the youngsters haven't developed in the way that was anticipated may also be a symptom of the shocking succession of poor managers at our club in recent seasons.
Flynny Posted 3 February 2008 Posted 3 February 2008 Tomi Petrescu has played and scored in the Uefa Cup this season hasn't he? Now he was something special before he went off the rails here and returned to Finland. In and of itself that means absolutely nothing.
Mark Posted 3 February 2008 Posted 3 February 2008 I know that I'm just desperately trying to find some successes but struggling
Flynny Posted 3 February 2008 Posted 3 February 2008 I know that I'm just desperately trying to find some successes but struggling That is a bit depressing.
Wooly Posted 3 February 2008 Posted 3 February 2008 Jordan Stewart was playing Premier League football last season, and could well be again quite soon. Yes, and he's one of probably 20+ Villa academy graduates who are playing first team football at a higher level than any of ours at the moment. Irrelavent to the thread. As for Petrescu playing UEFA Cup football; great, Lars Hirchfield was playing (pretty well!) in the Champions League. Meaningless.
Joe. Posted 3 February 2008 Posted 3 February 2008 For a team that has a youth team as successful as ours it is disappointing that we haven't had many players we can truly call "valuable assets" to the team. In the last few years we've had Stewart, Stearman, Wesolowski, A.Chambers, Shush!, Mattock, King all come through and play some part in the first team. But how many will really have successful careers with either Leicester or anybody else? It's not like any of these are likely to be another Heskey and it's depressing really. All my hope is resting on Max Gradel at the moment in the hope that he actually is the exciting winger we've been lacking for so long.
Thracian Posted 4 February 2008 Posted 4 February 2008 Care to comment on the fact that we've not produced a player who's been able to have any kind of career even as a squad player at Championship level for the past decade? Not a single one? Heath had a couple of years in rotation at Coventry under Adams, and was relegated as a squad player at Leeds, and is by far and a way the most successful player we've produced since the mid-90s? I've expressed my concern about this on several occasions because it seems we do have difficulty as a club in seeing quality youngsters through the final phase of development. All sorts of factors might contribute but, for me, the big thing is to maintain faith and keep young proteges actively involved by continually focusing on what they're good at and making sure they don't lose the confidence needed to show those strengths. That's not the whole story but it gives an idea of what I believe the approach should be in getting the best out of emerging players. It's all about the manager taking the fear out of his charges and letting them know that he will detail the job he wants doing in every match and will take responsibility for the young player being physically and mentally equipped to deliver. Put simply a manager should never contemplate failure with anyone. Such doubts only transfer themselves to the players. The manager is a clan chief and no manager is a leader of any sort unless he inspires all those around him. If you take Mattock yesterday, while I wouldn't necessarily blame Holloway for doing things his way, there is NO WAY I'd have substituted him. Psychologically that was so destructive. Mattock learned sod all by being subbed, and being subbed by a right back only made the process completely humiliating. I would have taken Mattock to one side at the break and told him he'd just played one half against an experienced good quality player and come second because he had things to learn. I'd have asked him why he thought he'd come second and would hope he would recognise himself that an opponent had twice got goalside of him in a dangerous place. I would then have asked him if he'd like to put that right in the second half and would assure him that, even if he cost us a second goal, I would persevere and expect him to start all over again in trying to master his opponent? I would also tell him to learn everything he could about him so that if it finished up a bad afternoon he would be better equipped to deal with him next time. Before he went out I would mention all the good things he'd done and explain that other people had problems too, that the side was losing collectively because others hadn't compensated enough for players having a bad time and had made their own mistakes or failed to take their chances to score or make goals. Instead of being deflated by substitution, Mattock would have remained on the pitch and therefore would have seen in the most practical way that I believed in him winning any war even if he lost an early battle. And if it worked Mattock would never have had a problem with that guy again. By substituting Mattock, Holloway was publicly saying that HIS player couldn't cope with theirs on the day. He was accepting we'd lost in that department up to that point. He was making an individual responsible for the team's failure. I would NEVER do that because I would NEVER humiliate a player of mine in public or concede that they were inferior for one second. I would help THEM put things right not give some other player the chance to do it. And as a manager I would take personal responsibility for all shortcomings and defend my players in phone ins, board meetings, supporter gatherings, whatever, like you'd never believe. People on here have complained how defiantly I defend our young players and that only reflects what I've explained above and what I wholeheartedly believe in. The team is the manager's troops. They are his lifeblood. And the only thing THEY should focus on is the enemy - not be concerned that the manager might become the enemy. Occasionally such a viewpoint might cost us a match. But it would also inspire the unbreakable spirit necessary to be successful in football.
Thracian Posted 4 February 2008 Posted 4 February 2008 For a team that has a youth team as successful as ours it is disappointing that we haven't had many players we can truly call "valuable assets" to the team.In the last few years we've had Stewart, Stearman, Wesolowski, A.Chambers, Shush!, Mattock, King all come through and play some part in the first team. But how many will really have successful careers with either Leicester or anybody else? It's not like any of these are likely to be another Heskey and it's depressing really. All my hope is resting on Max Gradel at the moment in the hope that he actually is the exciting winger we've been lacking for so long. The biggest strength of the players you mention is not as individuals, but as the component parts of a team. I actually doubt that Gradel would play in our current side. He needs to play with people who pass and move. Why do you think Crewe were so keen on him. We can't pass wind with any consistency.
Thracian Posted 4 February 2008 Posted 4 February 2008 The problem is that people keep on building up these young players into something more than they are and when they don't perform brilliantly thek slag them off. I agree largely with what you say but remember an interview with Levein about our young players. Now he may not have done well for us but he is still a canny manager and he clearly said that of that bunch of players only Stearman was up to the required level and I have to say he has largely been proved correct.It would of course have helped to have had a successful first team into which to slot youth players but that has not been the case but other teams have managed to introduce youth team players successfully into their team and have then sold them for a lot of cash. This is not the case here. with the exception of a relatively low bid for Mattock premier league clubs are hardly knocking down our door to acquire our youth team players. I wonder why that is? Levein hadn't even got the courage of his own convictions and was a managerial flop at Leicester. Stearman isn't more talented than Porter, Wesolowski, Gradel, McKay, Shush!, Mattock or King. He's different just as the others are from one another. There are so many aspects concerning the final development of footballers - physical strength and fitness, confidence and focusing on players strengths, so much a feature of MON and Brian Clough's management. There are other things too but we've don't even tick those three boxes. Proof? Laczko drifting into midfield and more concerned with defending than attacking. Chambers at left back and Hume operating as a winger. I've lost count of the times we've fielded unfit players and you don't people a player's confidence by subbing him.
Daggers Posted 4 February 2008 Posted 4 February 2008 And how many 30+ signings have we made during this time, who have made zero contributions to our team?W*se Howey Pressman Keown Blake Dublin Wilcox Johnson Newton ..to name but a few. The fact that the youngsters haven't developed in the way that was anticipated may also be a symptom of the shocking succession of poor managers at our club in recent seasons. As well you know - this is not a situation that has been built from successive poor management. The squad that we finished last season with had been accumulated through poor leadership and funding from the board room as much as anything else. The fact that two recent managers were touted for the top job in Scotland, one other is currently managing Northern Ireland while a fourth was cherry-picked for the Premiership would indicate that the problems at City go well beyond managerial ability. There was a cancer in the boardroom - and to extend this analogy, we are currently in post-operative care and gradually being removed from life-support.
Jackirius Posted 4 February 2008 Posted 4 February 2008 i just think we should stop with the useless player signings and concentrate on building the team to a high morale and maybe get one decent signing or 2 every transfer window because atm were just chopping and changing to much.
Manwell Pablo Posted 4 February 2008 Posted 4 February 2008 Varney - FailureEastwood - Failure Campbell - Failure Sharpe - Failure McLeod - Failure £1.5m does not buy you much. You either get someone untried at this level, a one season wonder, or an aging striker who has done it at this level. Championship top goalscorers in all comps. Kevin Phillips WBA £700,000 Micheal Mifsud FREE Slvan Ebanks Blake, £1.5 Million. Clinton Morrison £2 Million James Beattie £4 Million Ricardo "I'm Shit" Fuller £500,000 Andy Gray, £1.5 Million Browsing down after that we have the likes of Pablo Counago, Kevin Lisbie, Martin Paterson etc etc.. All less than 1.5 million pounds.
Thracian Posted 4 February 2008 Posted 4 February 2008 As well you know - this is not a situation that has been built from successive poor management. The squad that we finished last season with had been accumulated through poor leadership and funding from the board room as much as anything else. The fact that two recent managers were touted for the top job in Scotland, one other is currently managing Northern Ireland while a fourth was cherry-picked for the Premiership would indicate that the problems at City go well beyond managerial ability. There was a cancer in the boardroom - and to extend this analogy, we are currently in post-operative care and gradually being removed from life-support. I'm glad you're so optimistic about the life-support. Of our huge number of signings, including loanees, since the close season far too many have not been of the quality needed either as first choices or as support players. Furthermore, even with our better signings, there are still few signs of us developing the sort of team we're going to need to even survive, let alone be successful.
Ultra Posted 4 February 2008 Posted 4 February 2008 Going back on topic, here are some quotes from WACCOE (the Leeds forum) Shush! looked a good player for me. agree - he had some potential. he nearly made the pass of the season after about 10 minutes when he pinged a 40 yarder to the gap between the centre backs and nearly stright onto beckford's toe, who would have been straight in on goal. it only went about 2 foot off the ground, but they just managed to block it. what i don't get is he's about the same age as parker [another Leeds player] and looked as inexperienced. it was his cock up that led to the goal and after that he lost his confidence. what i don't get is why it's the inexperienced players who get the shortest shrift on here. people expect them to set the world alight on their first appearance and if they make a mistake then it's scrutinized. then people like me try and defend them and opinions get polarized - they're either shit or great, when they're somewhere in between. Agreed - Thought he had a sweet left foot, and defended well for most of the game, especially as once again there was no left sided midfielder in there to help him out. They also slate Bradley Johnson on there. Looks like we had a narrow escape!
Staf Posted 5 February 2008 Posted 5 February 2008 Just seen this on BBC sorry if already posted: Shush! explains Leeds loan move Defender Alan Shush! has revealed that he turned down a new contract at Leicester to join Leeds on loan. The Republic of Ireland under-21 international has a two-year deal with the Foxes which runs out in the summer. Shush! told BBC Radio Leeds: "Gary McAllister was a terrific player and I'm very happy to be playing under a manager like him. "I've turned down a contract at Leicester, so I'm out here on loan until the end of the season."
Ultra Posted 5 February 2008 Posted 5 February 2008 Already a thread on this.. Can't understand how you missed it..
Babylon Posted 5 February 2008 Posted 5 February 2008 Championship top goalscorers in all comps.Kevin Phillips WBA £700,000 Micheal Mifsud FREE Slvan Ebanks Blake, £1.5 Million. Clinton Morrison £2 Million James Beattie £4 Million Ricardo "I'm Shit" Fuller £500,000 Andy Gray, £1.5 Million Browsing down after that we have the likes of Pablo Counago, Kevin Lisbie, Martin Paterson etc etc.. All less than 1.5 million pounds. And who's to say Howard couldn't be on that list? He was last year.
The Reverend Posted 8 February 2008 Posted 8 February 2008 Looking on that Plymuff forum, someone said they know 'Alan' Sheehans dad, and said he has fell out with Holloway big time. Interesting.
Manwell Pablo Posted 8 February 2008 Posted 8 February 2008 Looking on that Plymuff forum, someone said they know 'Alan' Sheehans dad, and said he has fell out with Holloway big time. Interesting. Bull shit more like.
teblin Posted 8 February 2008 Posted 8 February 2008 Looking on that Plymuff forum, someone said they know 'Alan' Sheehans dad, and said he has fell out with Holloway big time. Interesting. He prob told him the truth and Shush! didn't like it.
Thracian Posted 8 February 2008 Posted 8 February 2008 Bull shit more like. Doesn't matter now anyway. He's gone and we've still got to find to get someone to make some chances.
The Reverend Posted 8 February 2008 Posted 8 February 2008 Bull shit more like. Maybe, but i dunno why they would just come out with it, after all what does Shush! have to do with them? Who knows, we'll probably never find out anyway....
Jimmy Posted 8 February 2008 Posted 8 February 2008 Looking on that Plymuff forum, someone said they know 'Alan' Sheehans dad, and said he has fell out with Holloway big time. Interesting. translation - he doesn't like that he cant get in ahead of a 17 year old
The Reverend Posted 8 February 2008 Posted 8 February 2008 translation - he doesn't like that he cant get in ahead of a 17 year old probably.
Daggers Posted 8 February 2008 Posted 8 February 2008 translation - he doesn't like that he cant get in ahead of a 17 year old I hope the missus doesn't start banging boys then - I don't want to go to Leeds.
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