All eyes on the Loanees

[Uncle Albert]

Yes. And I think it was Hull when he came on as substitute and let the Hull striker get between himself and Kisnorbo for an unchallenged goal. It was very similar to a mistake he made twice in quick succesion at Blackpool, once when we got off and the other time when they scored their first.

I dont think Mattock was at fault for the second goal personally.

Blackpool I agree though.

[Thracian]

I dont think Mattock was at fault for the second goal personally.

Blackpool I agree though.

Perhaps we see it differently - I would always have my full-back coming around the back as last line cover for my centre-back when dealing with a diagonal through-ball but, whatever, I didn't wish to sound especially critical of Mattock.

From the start I said he and Shee-han should have been developed in tandem this season but our leaders, in their wisdom, have seen it differently and to me we're paying the price cos there was never ny logic in shedding goals from a team that, while defending okay, was already finding it hard to score.

Mattock is enouraging. He has steadily progressed in various ways and seems to have the mental attitude which should ensure that continues. But, he is what he is and where he is and all the perfectly understandable local support for the guy won't change that and certainly won't change the competent but generally inconsequential Jamie Clapham.

[Alexikokopops]

I'm off to a meeting now, so it's down to you to man the forte as well. :laugh:

I am going to kill you over and over

[Ric Flair]

I wouldn't second guess what Mattock will be doing in the years to come. Or Shush! for that matter.

I've longed believed that a fully fit, well coached and well-motivated Shush! would grace the team of any manager intent on putting a through-the-team attacking side together.

I've seen Premiership managers and scouts make as many mistakes as anyone else so their opinion is just that to me and right now I don't even think Mattock is really good enough for what we need, never mind the Premiership.

I don't think Mattock's defending is outstanding and that's not just based on the difficult cirucumstances of last Saturday but on games like Hull (I think it was) at home, Norwich away (by reports) and Blackpool away plus times even in lesser football when I'd have questioned his positioning and decision-making.

Don't mistake me all the above is to be expected of any 17-year-old and he's lots of time to gain the experience he needs.

But that's the current position and while he and Shush! might be comparable as defenders - certainly the way Shush! is supposedly playing for Leeds at the moment - there's no way Mattock is as dangerous in an attacking sense.

We've been idiots to sideline Shee-han and even bigger idiots sending Gradel away to Bournemouth when he was much needed here.

That's not hindsight as you well know. I said Gradel should be our right winger at the beginning of the season and my views on Shee-han are no secret.

Truth is we've played our hand now and we'll be bloody lucky to bluff our way clear of relegation this time.

But right now Shee-han blatantly isn't at the level Mattock is at, otherwise our manager wouldn't have chosen Joe over him and the likes of Mourinho (before he left Chelsea), Curbishley and O'Neill wouldn't be trying to sign him for a few million. He wouldn't be the second youngest player to play for England Under 21's if he was worse than Shee-han as well. Shee-han can't even get in for the ROI Under 21's and they are garbage. Managers do make mistakes and very mediocre players get bought when young for a lot of money, some youngsters drop down to the lower leagues and work their way back up. This might be the case with Mattock and Shee-han, but I doubt it.

He's 17, some of his performances have been absolutely superb, I think back to the Villa away game and had to pinch myself that such a young lad could peform like that in such an environment. This is why Premiership clubs are after him, ok, he has made a few mistakes, but over the course of the season he's shown to be a very accomplished young full-back who with the right coaching can be as good as he wants to be.

If you cannot accept that, then that's up to you. I actually think Shee-han did serve a purpose here for his set pieces, but not at the expense of a better player (Mattock) from open play.

[Uncle Albert]

Mattock's delivery for McAuley at WBA said he is better than Shush! out on the left wing.

[Dr The Singh]

But right now Shee-han blatantly isn't at the level Mattock is at, otherwise our manager wouldn't have chosen Joe over him and the likes of Mourinho (before he left Chelsea), Curbishley and O'Neill wouldn't be trying to sign him for a few million. He wouldn't be the second youngest player to play for England Under 21's if he was worse than Shee-han as well. Shee-han can't even get in for the ROI Under 21's and they are garbage. Managers do make mistakes and very mediocre players get bought when young for a lot of money, some youngsters drop down to the lower leagues and work their way back up. This might be the case with Mattock and Shee-han, but I doubt it.

He's 17, some of his performances have been absolutely superb, I think back to the Villa away game and had to pinch myself that such a young lad could peform like that in such an environment. This is why Premiership clubs are after him, ok, he has made a few mistakes, but over the course of the season he's shown to be a very accomplished young full-back who with the right coaching can be as good as he wants to be.

If you cannot accept that, then that's up to you. I actually think Shee-han did serve a purpose here for his set pieces, but not at the expense of a better player (Mattock) from open play.

Agreed, just to add though, Mattock is a defensive sense shoe niaivity and hence the team may suffer but rarely ever gets 'beaten' by the attacker', but Shush! on the other hand gets clearly beaten by the attacker, although experience will help that occur less but by no doubt will limit his defensive qualities!!!

[Manwell Pablo]

You lot are on Strike Two by the way, one more and this gets closed till one of them actually plays.

[Ric Flair]

Mattock's delivery for McAuley at WBA said he is better than Shush! out on the left wing.

Surely not as good as Shee-han's earth shattering through ball to DJ against Sheff Wed away that had DJ scored would have been widely regarded as the best assist ever.

[Ric Flair]

You lot are on Strike Two by the way, one more and this gets closed till one of them actually plays.

I'll just re-open it. I'm prepared to spend a whole day arguing this beast out.

[Manwell Pablo]

Surely not as good as Shee-han's earth shattering through ball to DJ against Sheff Wed away that had DJ scored would have been widely regarded as the best assist ever.

AHEM.

potential ASSIST. He didn't score (willy puller) denying Shush! he's birth right of one single, solatery assist from open play this season.

Now shut up this is getting silly again and your suppose to set an example Mr.

[Uncle Albert]

Surely not as good as Shee-han's earth shattering through ball to DJ against Sheff Wed away that had DJ scored would have been widely regarded as the best assist ever.

It's up there with Mattocks but Mattocks was alot better.

That ball was unplayable for defenders.

[Alexikokopops]

You lot are on Strike Two by the way, one more and this gets closed till one of them actually plays.

Thank God! Thank Allah! Thank Brahman! Thank Waheguru!

[The People's Hero]

Sending someone to Scotland is rather like sending Napoleon to Elba

Oh dear.

It gets worse.

[Thracian]

But right now Shee-han blatantly isn't at the level Mattock is at, otherwise our manager wouldn't have chosen Joe over him and the likes of Mourinho (before he left Chelsea), Curbishley and O'Neill wouldn't be trying to sign him for a few million. He wouldn't be the second youngest player to play for England Under 21's if he was worse than Shee-han as well. Shee-han can't even get in for the ROI Under 21's and they are garbage. Managers do make mistakes and very mediocre players get bought when young for a lot of money, some youngsters drop down to the lower leagues and work their way back up. This might be the case with Mattock and Shee-han, but I doubt it.

He's 17, some of his performances have been absolutely superb, I think back to the Villa away game and had to pinch myself that such a young lad could peform like that in such an environment. This is why Premiership clubs are after him, ok, he has made a few mistakes, but over the course of the season he's shown to be a very accomplished young full-back who with the right coaching can be as good as he wants to be.

If you cannot accept that, then that's up to you. I actually think Shee-han did serve a purpose here for his set pieces, but not at the expense of a better player (Mattock) from open play.

We'll agree to differ.

I have always had a Keeganesque approach to football so I guess what I'd look for in the people I'd want in the team is perhaps different to others.

I know I'd want Shush! and that I wouldn't want Clapham but I've honestly no idea if I'd want Mattock. Time and again I've watched him and while he's often been competent the only times I really liked what I saw was against Palace in the FA Youth Cup, Norwich (4-0 win) and of course, as you say, against Villa in the League Cup win when he operated almost exclusively as a defender, at least by my definition.

The stats confirm that, as yet, Mattock doesn't have anything like the attacking effect of Shush! and whether that will come in time remains to be seen.

But City scoring more goals is a priority and if our management thinks they'll do that simply by changing the centre-forwards, they're wrong.

And because they've been wrong so often about so many things and for so long under various regimes I'll stick with my own views on footballers and how they can best contribute to a team.

Curbishley and MON have their own circumstances at their clubs which might well make Mattock an ideal signing but our circumstances are different and how we've coped with them is reflected in the League table which tells us in dark black lettering that we haven't scored or created enough goals.

[The People's Hero]

We'll agree to differ.

I have always had a Keeganesque approach to football so I guess what I'd look for in the people I'd want in the team is perhaps different to others.

I know I'd want Shush! and that I wouldn't want Clapham but I've honestly no idea if I'd want Mattock. Time and again I've watched him and while he's often been competent the only times I really liked what I saw was against Palace in the FA Youth Cup, Norwich (4-0 win) and of course, as you say, against Villa in the League Cup win when he operated almost exclusively as a defender, at least by my definition.

The stats confirm that, as yet, Mattock doesn't have anything like the attacking effect of Shush! and whether that will come in time remains to be seen.

But City scoring more goals is a priority and if our management thinks they'll do that simply by changing the centre-forwards, they're wrong.

And because they've been wrong so often about so many things and for so long under various regimes I'll stick with my own views on footballers and how they can best contribute to a team.

Curbishley and MON have their own circumstances at their clubs which might well make Mattock an ideal signing but our circumstances are different and how we've coped with them is reflected in the League table which tells us in dark black lettering that we haven't scored or created enough goals.

If you had a Keeganesque approach to scrabble you'd be a world beater.

Actually, you wouldn't. It's not a word and it's also a bastardisation of a proper noun.

In fact, you'd be awful at scrabble. For one, you make words up all the time and for two, you can't make a decent argument for including a mediocre/poor in patches left back with only seven letters.

[Ric Flair]

We'll agree to differ.

I have always had a Keeganesque approach to football so I guess what I'd look for in the people I'd want in the team is perhaps different to others.

I know I'd want Shush! and that I wouldn't want Clapham but I've honestly no idea if I'd want Mattock. Time and again I've watched him and while he's often been competent the only times I really liked what I saw was against Palace in the FA Youth Cup, Norwich (4-0 win) and of course, as you say, against Villa in the League Cup win when he operated almost exclusively as a defender, at least by my definition.

The stats confirm that, as yet, Mattock doesn't have anything like the attacking effect of Shush! and whether that will come in time remains to be seen.

But City scoring more goals is a priority and if our management thinks they'll do that simply by changing the centre-forwards, they're wrong.

And because they've been wrong so often about so many things and for so long under various regimes I'll stick with my own views on footballers and how they can best contribute to a team.

Curbishley and MON have their own circumstances at their clubs which might well make Mattock an ideal signing but our circumstances are different and how we've coped with them is reflected in the League table which tells us in dark black lettering that we haven't scored or created enough goals.

Keegan likes kamikaze attacking, which tends to happen from open play. Alan Shee-han does his business from set pieces, he's never scored or had an assist for Leicester from open play, therefore I cannot accept that this boy is an attacking full-back.

[Thracian]

Keegan likes kamikaze attacking, which tends to happen from open play. Alan Shee-han does his business from set pieces, he's never scored or had an assist for Leicester from open play, therefore I cannot accept that this boy is an attacking full-back.

We've long differed on that one and I think it was a Leeds fan who only recently commented on his vision in terms of passing, something I've witnessed many times.

[Ric Flair]

We've long differed on that one.

I know we have, but to be fair, you've yet to prove that Shee-han is any good from open play as his assists and scoring record from that situation is just as bad if not worse than Joe Mattock's. But I will admit that Shee-han's work from set pieces cannot be under-estimated, and if he could defend, it wouldn't matter if he was dangerous from open play going forward. That's mainly the job of the wingers.

[The People's Hero]

Shush! must be the most talked about mediocre league one left back in the world.

I'm going to pick a mediocre league one left back and rave about him endlessly.

[Ric Flair]

We've long differed on that one and I think it was a Leeds fan who only recently commented on his vision in terms of passing, something I've witnessed many times.

..... the book when it comes to defending?

[Ric Flair]

Shush! must be the most talked about mediocre league one left back in the world.

I'm going to pick a mediocre league one left back and rave about him endlessly.

Kerry Mayo

[Manwell Pablo]

Shush! must be the most talked about mediocre league one left back in the world.

I'm going to pick a mediocre league one left back and rave about him endlessly.

Matt Lockwood, always liked him. Even if he is now a tree.

[Ric Flair]

Matt Lockwood, always liked him. Even if he is now a tree.

Now there's a left back who can score and set goals up!

[Sods]

Now there's a left back who can score and set goals up!

Set Peices the lot.

[The People's Hero]

Neal Eardley.

Oldham.

Not sure he's a left back. Certainly a young defender though and Finners will love him as he's Welsh.