Absolute *** of our time Pt.MXXVI

[Nick]

Now who is the imbecile ?

It's still you.

[Nick]

I read this thread and wonder just how far 'right' some of the usual suspects actually are. Whilst I am often accused of having liberal values or being 'left' I am not out buying hardcore socialist media.

Some of the values on here are far more akin to BNP and EDL not Tory policy.

It feels there is a line being crossed here and the people crossing it are not really particularly keen on saying what they really think or those values being publicly exposed.

[flowwolf]

It's still you.

That would be funny if it ever came close to it. The words Kettle and pot spring to mind. :thumbup:

I read this thread and wonder just how far 'right' some of the usual suspects actually are. Whilst I am often accused of having liberal values or being 'left' I am not out buying hardcore socialist media.

Some of the values on here are far more akin to BNP and EDL not Tory policy.

It feels there is a line being crossed here and the people crossing it are not really particularly keen on saying what they really think or those values being publicly exposed.

You say usual suspects as if to have right wing views is some sort of crime , if so then a lot of conservative voters are according to your left wing view guilty of goodness know what ? To have right wing views / values does not make you a fascist as i'm sure you would agree. The lines being crossed to which you refer are of your own making and are based on what you consider as acceptable. The reason people do not speak what they really think is precisely because the left wing use the " your a fascist " card every time instead of listening and arguing the point. Still it's nice to see you out and about Nick I always look forward to your input. :thumbup:

[Guest MattP]

I read this thread and wonder just how far 'right' some of the usual suspects actually are. Whilst I am often accused of having liberal values or being 'left' I am not out buying hardcore socialist media.

Some of the values on here are far more akin to BNP and EDL not Tory policy.

It feels there is a line being crossed here and the people crossing it are not really particularly keen on saying what they really think or those values being publicly exposed.

Probably right, if I was of a far right persuasion I'd dumb it down these days to look more centerist, look at people like out and proud hardliners like Nick Griffin, came out 8-9 years ago and said under age white girls were being targeted by muslims and he was dubbed a bigot, liar and the Labour party tried to throw him in prison for it, fortunately he was found not guilty by a jury or I dread to think what sort of lawsuit the CPS would be facing given it's came out as the truth.

Right-wing is almost seen as dirty on these boards, times i've seen the term "right wing disabled" or something similar used is bizarre, no idea when it happened but some point in the last 5-6 the left seemed to stop talking politics and instead just started slandering everything on the other side, knew probably the posters boys of the left around the time had started bankrupting the country.

If you go to USA, Italy or Spain etc and say you can't stand multi-culturalism and think you would be better off without it's generally a normal political opinion, certianly nothing outrageous, say it here and you'll be tarred as a BNP Voter, EDL marcher, bigot, fascist, black shirt and someone who wants the the Third Reich back.

It's got a ridiculous point, it's shame some Liberals arent' so "tolerant" when it comes to other peoples political views.

Edited 10 October 2012 by MattP

[ithuriel]

Human nature i guess, it is easier to simply label a person and ridicule so you do not have to deal with them, everyone is guilty of it.

[Steven]

This has always been a multi-cultural country. My ancestors came and made the place better by slaughtering a few Anglo-Saxons.

[leicsmac]

Probably right, if I was of a far right persuasion I'd dumb it down these days to look more centerist, look at people like out and proud hardliners like Nick Griffin, came out 8-9 years ago and said under age white girls were being targeted by muslims and he was dubbed a bigot, liar and the Labour party tried to throw him in prison for it, fortunately he was found not guilty by a jury or I dread to think what sort of lawsuit the CPS would be facing given it's came out as the truth.

Right-wing is almost seen as dirty on these boards, times i've seen the term "right wing disabled" or something similar used is bizarre, no idea when it happened but some point in the last 5-6 the left seemed to stop talking politics and instead just started slandering everything on the other side, knew probably the posters boys of the left around the time had started bankrupting the country.

If you go to USA, Italy or Spain etc and say you can't stand multi-culturalism and think you would be better off without it's generally a normal political opinion, certianly nothing outrageous, say it here and you'll be tarred as a BNP Voter, EDL marcher, bigot, fascist, black shirt and someone who wants the the Third Reich back.

It's got a ridiculous point, it's shame some Liberals arent' so "tolerant" when it comes to other peoples political views.

Certainly agree with you on free speech...Griffin should have the right to say what he wants to say through a platform.

Of course, by the same principle other people then have the right to call him whatever they want because of it.

Also, from what I can tell political slurs (on this board and out in the world) are not unidirectional. For every BNP bigot knuckle-dragging fascist you have a Socialist tree-hugging workshy person-who-doesn't-live-in-the-REAL-world.

It's the absolutism on both sides that gets to me...people believing that a particular issue is utterly black and white and being totally reviled by any idea of compromise.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Dear oh dear, I went on a pub crawl last night and came back to this thread this morning.

There's too much idiocy here.

Here's the first thing. Abu Hamza's kids are British. They may not identify with Britain thanks to their idiot father, but they are as British as you and I. They did not ask to be brainwashed, poisoned and lied to their whole lives. Captain Hook did that of his own volition.

What could well happen is that his children turn their back on their father's vile teachings and become decent, functioning members of our society. I find it offensive that you're as good as ruling this out as a possibility. I'm sure his children are perfectly capable of making their own decisions as they become adults.

Do you not think that you're overestimating the power of Abu Hamza's teaching when you insist that they will never turn their back on extreme Islamism, a fundamentally flawed ideology if ever there was one? Hamza is a meatheaded thug. He's not a scholar of Islam whose arguments are watertight; he's the Islamist equivalent of a right-wing, racist pub bore. Would you assume that kids brought up by a right-wing, racist pub bore could never vote for anyone other than the BNP as they grow up? Surely you'd think that they could grow up smarter and less ignorant than their father, given the right education and life experience.

I'm happy to assume the same is possible of Hamza's brood.

Sorry to jump in.late on this debate but are they as 'british as you or I' ?

Are they heck. Not because they may only be one or second generation British but because of the influence their father has most probably had on them. To say they are is an insult to true Brits.

I also disagree that being born here automatically makes them English, the same way if an armed forces member gives birth whilst garrisoned in Germany they're not German. (or the soldier's child who was born in camp bastion a few weeks ago isn't Afghan.

You have to earn the right to be called British imo if thats what people want to be known as.

Equally you have to earn your right to have human rights when you want to hide behind them.

Can of worms I know, and I'm sure certain people will be criticizing my view but hey ho

Dear oh dear, I went on a pub crawl last night and came back to this thread this morning.

There's too much idiocy here.

Here's the first thing. Abu Hamza's kids are British. They may not identify with Britain thanks to their idiot father, but they are as British as you and I. They did not ask to be brainwashed, poisoned and lied to their whole lives. Captain Hook did that of his own volition.

What could well happen is that his children turn their back on their father's vile teachings and become decent, functioning members of our society. I find it offensive that you're as good as ruling this out as a possibility. I'm sure his children are perfectly capable of making their own decisions as they become adults.

Do you not think that you're overestimating the power of Abu Hamza's teaching when you insist that they will never turn their back on extreme Islamism, a fundamentally flawed ideology if ever there was one? Hamza is a meatheaded thug. He's not a scholar of Islam whose arguments are watertight; he's the Islamist equivalent of a right-wing, racist pub bore. Would you assume that kids brought up by a right-wing, racist pub bore could never vote for anyone other than the BNP as they grow up? Surely you'd think that they could grow up smarter and less ignorant than their father, given the right education and life experience.

I'm happy to assume the same is possible of Hamza's brood.

Sorry to jump in.late on this debate but are they as 'british as you or I' ?

Are they heck. Not because they may only be one or second generation British but because of the influence their father has most probably had on them. To say they are is an insult to true Brits.

I also disagree that being born here automatically makes them English, the same way if an armed forces member gives birth whilst garrisoned in Germany they're not German. (or the soldier's child who was born in camp bastion a few weeks ago isn't Afghan.

You have to earn the right to be called British imo if thats what people want to be known as.

Equally you have to earn your right to have human rights when you want to hide behind them.

Can of worms I know, and I'm sure certain people will be criticizing my view but hey ho

[Webbo]

Are they heck. Not because they may only be one or second generation British but because of the influence their father has most probably had on them. To say they are is an insult to true Brits.

I also disagree that being born here automatically makes them English, the same way if an armed forces member gives birth whilst garrisoned in Germany they're not German. (or the soldier's child who was born in camp bastion a few weeks ago isn't Afghan.

You have to earn the right to be called British imo if thats what people want to be known as.

Equally you have to earn your right to have human rights when you want to hide behind them.

Can of worms I know, and I'm sure certain people will be criticizing my view but hey ho

I haven't done anything to earn the right to be British other than being born here.

[Finnegan]

I haven't done anything to earn the right to be British other than being born here.

[21st Century Fox]

I'm only half-British.... quick...quick... what can I do to rectify this??!!

[The Year Of The Fox]

I haven't done anything to earn the right to be British other than being born here.

Do you threaten to create terrorist attacks, declare jihad on soldiers, not pay taxes etc?

Does an immigrant here illegally after coming over on the back of a lorry giving birth two days later have the right to call the child British?

Not IMO

Edited 10 October 2012 by lcfcstu

[21st Century Fox]

Do you threaten to create terrorist attacks, declare jihad on soldiers, not pay taxes etc?

Do his kids?

[The Year Of The Fox]

Do his kids?

Nobody knows, but I can hardly imagine them standing in Hyde Park waving the Union Flag on Last Night of the Proms!

[Webbo]

Do you threaten to create terrorist attacks, declare jihad on soldiers, not pay taxes etc?

There are plenty of people who don't pay taxes and as far as I know his children haven't (yet) declared Jihad. I may not like their dad but if they were born here they have right to stay here, it's the law. Respecting the law is part of being British.

[21st Century Fox]

Nobody knows, but I can hardly imagine them standing in Hyde Park waving the Union Flag on Last Night of the Proms!

So that's the criteria for being British?

[The Year Of The Fox]

So that's the criteria for being British?

Oh lighten up! That.comment was tongue in cheek though I'm sure you know that and also grasp what I'm getting at too

[Guest Bilo]

Do you threaten to create terrorist attacks, declare jihad on soldiers, not pay taxes etc?

Does an immigrant here illegally after coming over on the back of a lorry giving birth two days later have the right to call the child British?

Not IMO

Do you see Nick Griffin as British?

After all he adheres to an ideology that threatened British independence and freedom 60 years ago and denied the Holocaust ever happened.

[Webbo]

Do you see Nick Griffin as British?

After all he adheres to an ideology that threatened British independence and freedom 60 years ago and denied the Holocaust ever happened.

He made a silly comment, that doesn't make him a Nazi.

[The Year Of The Fox]

There are plenty of people who don't pay taxes and as far as I know his children haven't (yet) declared Jihad. I may not like their dad but if they were born here they have right to stay here, it's the law. Respecting the law is part of being British.

Exactly. This isnt me picking on people because they're Muslim or whatever.

I see the chavs with Staffordshire bull terriers without a job just as less part of British society as Hamza himself

Edited 10 October 2012 by lcfcstu

[21st Century Fox]

Oh lighten up! That.comment was tongue in cheek though I'm sure you know that and also grasp what I'm getting at too

So I'm half British, what can I do to gain this right to be called British?

[Guest MattP]

Do you see Nick Griffin as British?

After all he adheres to an ideology that threatened British independence and freedom 60 years ago and denied the Holocaust ever happened.

He made a comment as a young man, I'm pretty sure he doesn't hold the same opinions now.

[Guest Bilo]

He made a silly comment, that doesn't make him a Nazi.

[Finnegan]

You've got more chance of Abu Hamza eating a hot dog with his nob up Bill Clinton's arse than finding me in Hyde Park waving a Union Jack and I'm definitely a Briton.

[Webbo]

He made a silly comment, that doesn't make him a Nazi.

I'm talking about Stu btw not Nick Griffin.

See above.

Edited 10 October 2012 by Webbo