Managers who are thought of as great who you don't rate part 1

[Ultra]

I doubt whether Wenger could have won trophies for us or Pompey.

MON proved at Celtic what he could do at a really big club.

[Corky]

I doubt whether Wenger could have won trophies for us or Pompey.

MON proved at Celtic what he could do at a really big club.

And he took over a Celtic in turmoil, and turned them around instantly. Also reached the Uefa Cup final in 2003. Before anyone says "the Scottish League was easy to win", Rangers were winning it virtually every year before he went there.

[lildave3]

As a manager, or a drinker?

As a manager

Have you not seen my build? I can't drink for shit!

[Phube]

Redknapp and MON better than Wenger?

Get a grip, your petty little hate affair with Arsenal clouds your judgement something silly.

I never said Redknapp I was just adding to the list...

But MON, I truly believe, is a better manager than Wenger. Just my opinion, but when you take into account the clubs he's worked miracles at... compared with Wenger at one of the most sucessful clubs in one of the main cities of the world. Then there is no comparison...

And on the Wenger youth thing... I do elieve he's a bit over-rated there. I mean he takes the cream of Europe's kids.... and makes them play well... WOW... I mean everyone talks like he got Henry from obscurity and made him into a world superstar... Hello... he was at Juventus, not some Serie C side!! All his 'kiddies' are some of the most prestidgous talent in the world of footy. Not rejects playing reserve footy for some lower end Prem team...

[Ross-Kemp]

Peter Taylor

[eye666]

I never said Redknapp I was just adding to the list...

But MON, I truly believe, is a better manager than Wenger. Just my opinion, but when you take into account the clubs he's worked miracles at... compared with Wenger at one of the most sucessful clubs in one of the main cities of the world. Then there is no comparison...

And on the Wenger youth thing... I do elieve he's a bit over-rated there. I mean he takes the cream of Europe's kids.... and makes them play well... WOW... I mean everyone talks like he got Henry from obscurity and made him into a world superstar... Hello... he was at Juventus, not some Serie C side!! All his 'kiddies' are some of the most prestidgous talent in the world of footy. Not rejects playing reserve footy for some lower end Prem team...

£150,000 for Kolo Toure... not bad business.

[James.]

How anyone can say a manager who has given us some of the best football we will ever see is overrated is beyond me. Crazy.

[Alexikokopops]

I never said Redknapp I was just adding to the list...

But MON, I truly believe, is a better manager than Wenger. Just my opinion, but when you take into account the clubs he's worked miracles at... compared with Wenger at one of the most sucessful clubs in one of the main cities of the world. Then there is no comparison...

And on the Wenger youth thing... I do elieve he's a bit over-rated there. I mean he takes the cream of Europe's kids.... and makes them play well... WOW... I mean everyone talks like he got Henry from obscurity and made him into a world superstar... Hello... he was at Juventus, not some Serie C side!! All his 'kiddies' are some of the most prestidgous talent in the world of footy. Not rejects playing reserve footy for some lower end Prem team...

Yes, but Henry was a struggling left winger at Juventus. Wenger was instrumental in his development as a world class striker.

[Manwell Pablo]

I'd love to see Arsene do what he has done at an unfashionable club, "Thiery would you like to come to Wigan, you know small town near Manchester, to play for me?" I don't think so...

The only reason I rate Ferguson as highly as I do is because of Aberdeen, not ManU!

Arsenal finished 12th in the Premier League the season before he took over.

And also Thierry Henry was not thought of as anything approaching a world class striker when Wenger signed him.

You do not have a clue what your talking about so I don't know why you continue to contribute to threads such as these.

[dandannieldanok]

£150,000 for Kolo Toure... not bad business.

How anyone can say a manager who has given us some of the best football we will ever see is overrated is beyond me. Crazy.

Yes, but Henry was a struggling left winger at Juventus. Wenger was instrumental in his development as a world class striker.

Arsenal finished 12th in the Premier League the season before he took over.

And also Thierry Henry was not thought of as anything approaching a world class striker when Wenger signed him.

You do not have a clue what your talking about so I don't know why you continue to contribute to threads such as these.

All valid points and are just 4 of many reasons as to why Wenger isn't overrated. Arsenal had potential when Wenger took over and he realised that and exposed it to the max. He's made mistakes and will continue to like any other manager but I rate him as possibly the best coach in the country. You could argue that he hasn't managed the club brilliantly as far as preparing a title challenge this season occurs, but his sustainable approach is far more appealing to me than seeing the likes of Man City chuck ridiculous money around.

[Phube]

Arsenal finished 12th in the Premier League the season before he took over.

And also Thierry Henry was not thought of as anything approaching a world class striker when Wenger signed him.

You do not have a clue what your talking about so I don't know why you continue to contribute to threads such as these.

A severe under achievement for Arsénal.

At JUVENTUS!!!!! Not Stockport!

My opinion is as valid as anyone else's! Especially those who are blinded by his... charm...

[Koke]

A severe under achievement for Arsénal.

At JUVENTUS!!!!! Not Stockport!

My opinion is as valid as anyone else's! Especially those who are blinded by his... charm...

Patrick Vieira, Nicolas Anelka, Marc Overmars, Kolo Toure, Cesc Fabregas, Robin van Persie - All bought for peanuts and most turned into world class players.

Anelka was bought for £500.000 and then later sold for £23 million - That's an incredible piece of business.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Patrick Vieira, Nicolas Anelka, Marc Overmars, Kolo Toure, Cesc Fabregas, Robin van Persie - All bought for peanuts and most turned into world class players.

Anelka was bought for £500.000 and then later sold for £23 million - That's an incredible piece of business.

No doubt that what Wenger has acheived is remarkable, but can you honestly see anyone with the character, the likeability factor, or even the talent of Overmars, Anelka or Viera in the current side?

I just wish he'd spend a bit of the resources he surely has to bring that world class player to Arsenal. To turn them from perennial runners-up into champions. His insistence on regularly playing Niklas Bendtner, who is clearly NOT top four quality, miffs me, when he could've bagged a very, very good striker in the summer.

The best players in the world would love to play at a club like Arsenal, and at the minute it would seem that they are being shunted in favour of players that have reached their peak, their peak not being enough to compete with the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, and Man United. Emmanuel Eboue, for example, is nowhere near the quality of Bosingwa, or Wes Brown.

Compare Arsenal's regular starting XI to that of any other "Big Four" side, and the gulf in class is massive.

[dandannieldanok]

No doubt that what Wenger has acheived is remarkable, but can you honestly see anyone with the character, the likeability factor, or even the talent of Overmars, Anelka or Viera in the current side?

I just wish he'd spend a bit of the resources he surely has to bring that world class player to Arsenal. To turn them from perennial runners-up into champions. His insistence on regularly playing Niklas Bendtner, who is clearly NOT top four quality, miffs me, when he could've bagged a very, very good striker in the summer.

The best players in the world would love to play at a club like Arsenal, and at the minute it would seem that they are being shunted in favour of players that have reached their peak, their peak not being enough to compete with the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, and Man United. Emmanuel Eboue, for example, is nowhere near the quality of Bosingwa, or Wes Brown.

Compare Arsenal's regular starting XI to that of any other "Big Four" side, and the gulf in class is massive.

But why should it bother us that Wenger isn't spending big to win the title, we don't support them. I respect Wenger massively for building the club how he wants to with the emphasis on youth. I find it thoroughly refreshing. Wenger has tried spending big before and failed; Wiltord and particularly Jeffers and Wright didn't play well enough to justify their price tag and therefore Wenger has decided against continuing in that vein. As already mentioned, his best players were brought in on the cheap and turned into megastars. I cringe at the thought of Man City's January transfer dealings and the general lunacy in the transfer markets these days. Why isn't Benitez being slated for spending £20m on Robbie Keane who has turned out to be a shocking purchase. Why are people so against Wenger?

[Koke]

But why should it bother us that Wenger isn't spending big to win the title, we don't support them. I respect Wenger massively for building the club how he wants to with the emphasis on youth. I find it thoroughly refreshing. Wenger has tried spending big before and failed; Wiltord and particularly Jeffers and Wright didn't play well enough to justify their price tag and therefore Wenger has decided against continuing in that vein. As already mentioned, his best players were brought in on the cheap and turned into megastars. I cringe at the thought of Man City's January transfer dealings and the general lunacy in the transfer markets these days. Why isn't Benitez being slated for spending £20m on Robbie Keane who has turned out to be a shocking purchase. Why are people so against Wenger?

And don't forget Jose Antonio Reyes. What a waste of £17 million that was.

Rafa has won the Champions League and FA Cup as well iirc. Wenger hasn't won anything since 2004. Then again Rafa spent £20 million on Keane and Torres for £20 million, and he still won't win the title.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

But why should it bother us that Wenger isn't spending big to win the title, we don't support them. I respect Wenger massively for building the club how he wants to with the emphasis on youth. I find it thoroughly refreshing. Wenger has tried spending big before and failed; Wiltord and particularly Jeffers and Wright didn't play well enough to justify their price tag and therefore Wenger has decided against continuing in that vein. As already mentioned, his best players were brought in on the cheap and turned into megastars. I cringe at the thought of Man City's January transfer dealings and the general lunacy in the transfer markets these days. Why isn't Benitez being slated for spending £20m on Robbie Keane who has turned out to be a shocking purchase. Why are people so against Wenger?

Point out where in my post it said I was against Wenger. I merely said that he should spend some of the massive amount of cash he surely has at his disposal, and it doesn't bother me, as you've put it, but there is a thread about it, so I'll post. You've posted in the thread, does that make you an Arsenal fan? Also, I said that he should spend big on a proven, world class striker. Neither Sylvan Wiltord nor Francis Jeffers were either. I'm talking a purchase on a much bigger scale than that, someone like Aguero, Villa, etc. The thing is the longer he focuses on building a more youth orientated side, the more he is taking the club in a direction where they will find cup success limited.

And Keane, a shocking purchase?

I think we'll see about that come the end of the season, Liverpool certainly don't seem to be suffering, do they?

[Phube]

Patrick Vieira, Nicolas Anelka, Marc Overmars, Kolo Toure, Cesc Fabregas, Robin van Persie - All bought for peanuts and most turned into world class players.

Anelka was bought for £500.000 and then later sold for £23 million - That's an incredible piece of business.

AC Milan

Paris Saint Germain

Ajax

Barcelona

Feyenood

So Kolo Toure is one 'find' in that lot, the rest weren't exactly hiding their light under a bushel!! Just because the selling clubs were stupid... doesn't make Wenger any good!

[shen]

AC Milan

Paris Saint Germain

Ajax

Barcelona

Feyenood

So Kolo Toure is one 'find' in that lot, the rest weren't exactly hiding their light under a bushel!! Just because the selling clubs were stupid... doesn't make Wenger any good!

So the fact he got the best out of these players doesn't mean a thing? What exactly did MON do when he plucked Muzzy from CHELSEA? He got those players on the cheap and got them winning titles. I'm certain that many managers envy Wengers vision and his ability to maximise players' potentials.

[Phube]

So the fact he got the best out of these players doesn't mean a thing? What exactly did MON do when he plucked Muzzy from CHELSEA? He got those players on the cheap and got them winning titles. I'm certain that many managers envy Wengers vision and his ability to maximise players' potentials.

Chelsea RESERVES!!!

All of Wenger's players had played for the first team!

[Simi]

Chelsea RESERVES!!!

All of Wenger's players had played for the first team!

Oh my god. :laugh:

[Phube]

Oh my god. :laugh:

[Simi]

The lengths you are going to attempt to prove a point that really isn't valid is unreal. None of the players you mention, despite what club they came from, were established players who were highly thought of. Perhaps Anelka, but many had doubts when he came to England.

[shen]

Chelsea RESERVES!!!

All of Wenger's players had played for the first team!

Wrong. Fabregas was a trainee at Barca and never played for the first team, and two appearances for AC Milan in more than a year is just about as good as Chambers has managed here... And as for Tourés appearances for his previous club, well... let's get serious shall we?

And you dodged the main question. Does it not mean anything that Wenger got the best out of those players?

The lengths you are going to attempt to prove a point that really isn't valid is unreal. None of the players you mention, despite what club they came from, were established players who were highly thought of. Perhaps Anelka, but many had doubts when he came to England.

Wrong as well. Van Persie was very much established and fairly highly rated. Overmars won the Champions League before joining Arsenal! And obviously big clubs had spotted Henry and Vieira as well, but just not managed to get the best out of them..

[Phube]

Wrong. Fabregas was a trainee at Barca and never played for the first team, and two appearances for AC Milan in more than a year is just about as good as Chambers has managed here... And as for Tourés appearances for his previous club, well... let's get serious shall we?

And you dodged the main question. Does it not mean anything that Wenger got the best out of those players?

I never said he didn't, my point was he Isn't this big finder of unknown talent.

His talent is getting very good players from BIG clubs, cheaply!

[Simi]

Wrong. Fabregas was a trainee at Barca and never played for the first team, and two appearances for AC Milan in more than a year is just about as good as Chambers has managed here... And as for Tourés appearances for his previous club, well... let's get serious shall we?

And you dodged the main question. Does it not mean anything that Wenger got the best out of those players?

Wrong as well. Van Persie was very much established and fairly highly rated. Overmars won the Champions League before joining Arsenal! And obviously big clubs had spotted Henry and Vieira as well, but just not managed to get the best out of them..

Forgot Overmars sorry, but Van Persie at Feynoord surely was nowhere near a finshed product. I'd give Wenger credit with that.

Surely if these managers were adamant that the likes of Henry and Veira would turn into world beaters they wouldn't have sold them for peanuts?