The General Election - Who Are You Voting For?

[Alexikokopops]

Surely a flat tax rate means that everyone pays the same rate regardless of their earnings or am I missing something here?

The same percentage of their earnings I assumed, so those that earn more will still pay more.

[Jon the Hat]

The same percentage of their earnings I assumed, so those that earn more will still pay more.

Yep. The reason we have/need prgressive income tax (i.e. higher % rates for higher earners) is broadly to offset the existence of regressive tax (ie lower earners pay proportionally more). Regressive tax includes VAT, where we all pay 17.5% on most things, but if someone on £50k a year pays 17.5% on £1000 a month he is paying £2100 a year in VAT, or 4.2% of his income, and if someone on £20k a year pays the same it is 10.5% of his income. So getting the basics costs you proportionally more in tax if you earn less. The same applies to all taxes on expenditure. So the logic that we have a regime in which each pays according to their ability is only partly true. Chuck in tax credits and you have a insanely complex system which only makes sense in the context of state control and muddying the waters of how much of you cash the Government is wasting all over the shop.

[FoxyPV]

Yep. The reason we have/need prgressive income tax (i.e. higher % rates for higher earners) is broadly to offset the existence of regressive tax (ie lower earners pay proportionally more). Regressive tax includes VAT, where we all pay 17.5% on most things, but if someone on £50k a year pays 17.5% on £1000 a month he is paying £2100 a year in VAT, or 4.2% of his income, and if someone on £20k a year pays the same it is 10.5% of his income. So getting the basics costs you proportionally more in tax if you earn less. The same applies to all taxes on expenditure. So the logic that we have a regime in which each pays according to their ability is only partly true. Chuck in tax credits and you have a insanely complex system which only makes sense in the context of state control and muddying the waters of how much of you cash the Government is wasting all over the shop.

A flat rate tax only then benefits the rich. 31% of say £50k still leaves proportionally a lot more in the pocket than someone on £10k. I suppose they have to look after their own voters

[l444ry]

Cameron Manifesto In Three Words - I Give Up

"And I Say This To The People...Erm..." David Cameron launched the Conservative Party election manifesto yesterday at Battersea Power Station, and pretty much confirmed what millions of voters have been suspecting for months.

If he gets elected, he won't have a clue what to do, so he'll deal with things by letting the people run the country for themselves.

Under the guise of self-determination, what 'Do Nothing' Dave is really doing is conceding that - as bad as it may be - there is no other way to deal with the recession other than the path taken by Gordon Brown.

Brown admits that grave mistakes were made, not only here, but all over the world. His methods of tackling the crisis have been copied by almost every other recession hit nation. It's what is known as making the best of a bad job.

'Do Nothing' Dave on the other hand, whilst slagging the government off from the rooftops is still unable to come up with a credible alternative, much less a more viable one.

If Labour win the election, it's going to be bad. The alternative appears to be for the great British public to run the country themselves while Cameron sits in Number Ten drinking tea and playing Scrabble with Samantha.

The plain truth of the matter is that David Cameron has given up long before he ever started. As can be evidenced by his response to a question asking what his first act would be on moving into Number Ten.

"I'll put the kettle on."

[Webbo]

Brown admits that grave mistakes were made,

That's more than you've ever done.

[l444ry]

That's more than you've ever done.

???? Careful now, don't let your brains go to your head!

[Ultra]

JK Rowling: I've never voted Tory before - and they keep reminding me why.

Good to see there's at least someone in the Murdoch press who remembers what life was like before 1997.

[Benji]

A flat rate tax only then benefits the rich. 31% of say £50k still leaves proportionally a lot more in the pocket than someone on £10k. I suppose they have to look after their own voters

I'm being stupid probably but how do you mean?

If both pay 31%, the 50k earner pays a larger amount but the amounts are proportional to their ability to pay? Isn't the idea of using a percentage system to make things fair in itself and not a method of closing the residual gap between the two? Obviously the higher earner is left with more, but that's the point in not living in a communist state isn't it? Incentive?

There's a good chance i've missed something simple if so the above will sound a load of rubbish

JK Rowling: I've never voted Tory before - and they keep reminding me why.

Good to see there's at least someone in the Murdoch press who remembers what life was like before 1997.

Here was me thinking we were voting for Cameron not Thatcher (who seems to head most criticism in the past).

If we voted on past track record and not what the parties are saying NOW no one in their right mind would vote anyone except Lib Dems or an "other" party.

[Guest Bilo]

JK Rowling: I've never voted Tory before - and they keep reminding me why.

Good to see there's at least someone in the Murdoch press who remembers what life was like before 1997.

Sorry but rolling out politically biased public figures to tell us how awful life was under a long-gone Tory government smacks of desperation. It sticks in the throat every bit as much as the Tory dinosaurs who kept harking back to the Winter of Discontent and millions of days lost through strike action in Callaghan's government as a last desperate act when Blair was resurgent in 1997.

It's irrelevant and smacks of scaremongering on a Daily Mail scale. You and your party must realise that trying to scare people out of voting Tory will be seen by many as what it is, desperation and typical Labour control freakery. I'm not even a Tory and I can see that. You might as well talk about Jeremy Thorpe's conspiracy to murder charge to put me off voting Lib Dem.

Do you not have any achievements of your own to point to? Nothing you're proud of? If you do, refer to them rather than point at things the last Tory government failed in. It's the kind of negative campaigning that will resonate with only the most rabid Tory haters, who won't vote Blue anyway. It sure as hell isn't going to turn on undecided voters.

[James.]

Sorry but rolling out politically biased public figures to tell us how awful life was under a long-gone Tory government smacks of desperation. It sticks in the throat every bit as much as the Tory dinosaurs who kept harking back to the Winter of Discontent and millions of days lost through strike action in Callaghan's government as a last desperate act when Blair was resurgent in 1997.

It's irrelevant and smacks of scaremongering on a Daily Mail scale. You and your party must realise that trying to scare people out of voting Tory will be seen by many as what it is, desperation and typical Labour control freakery. I'm not even a Tory and I can see that. You might as well talk about Jeremy Thorpe's conspiracy to murder charge to put me off voting Lib Dem.

Do you not have any achievements of your own to point to? Nothing you're proud of? If you do, refer to them rather than point at things the last Tory government failed in. It's the kind of negative campaigning that will resonate with only the most rabid Tory haters, who won't vote Blue anyway. It sure as hell isn't going to turn on undecided voters.

Well said, great post.

Ultra sums up everything I hate about politics. It's pathetic.

[Dr The Singh]

JK Rowling: I've never voted Tory before - and they keep reminding me why.

Good to see there's at least someone in the Murdoch press who remembers what life was like before 1997.

AHEM

'.....that so last century..' - Famous words of the biggot known as Ultra!!!!!!!!!

DO YOU REMEMBER THOSE WORDS OR DO YOU NEED REMINDING

[purpleronnie]

In my constituency, the Lib Dems are telling everyone that a vote for Labour is a wasted vote, so they get no sympathy from me. No

What do you expect them to say 'VOTE LABOUR'?

[Daggers]

AHEM

'.....that so last century..' - Famous words of the biggot known as Ultra!!!!!!!!!

DO YOU REMEMBER THOSE WORDS OR DO YOU NEED REMINDING

Bear in mind Ultra is bitter about the Tories supporting marriage because it reminds him that he's never going to experience the joys.

Not unless Labour legalise marrying your mother or your teddy.

[Dr The Singh]

Bear in mind Ultra is bitter about the Tories supporting marriage because it reminds him that he's never going to experience the joys.

Not unless Labour legalise marrying your mother or your teddy.

Is the marry of farm animals of new parks allowed withing New Labour???

[Daggers]

Is the marry of farm animals of new parks allowed withing New Labour???

As long as none of them are terrorist animals.

[Dr The Singh]

As long as none of them are terrorist animals.

I see why he's still single then, according to the rule book of Councillor become Mayor Colin anything that objects to his rants or advances is a terrorist of some sort. So that only leaves dead animals then...............

[Daggers]

So that only leaves dead animals then...............

He looks the type who'd struggle with a small pussy tbh - even a dead one.

[Dr The Singh]

He looks the type who'd struggle with a small pussy tbh - even a dead one.

I don't think he's ever been near a pussy upclose.....

[Jon the Hat]

What do you expect them to say 'VOTE LABOUR'?

I expect them to at least try and have a consistent message, not tell us locally that a Labour vote is wasted cos they won't win, and nationally tell us that a Lib Dem vote is not wasted even though they won't win.

[Shrenchel]

I expect them to at least try and have a consistent message, not tell us locally that a Labour vote is wasted cos they won't win, and nationally tell us that a Lib Dem vote is not wasted even though they won't win.

There's is a difference though. If an MP doesn't win a constituency then it doesn't matter if they got 3 votes or 30,000 votes because he/she is still going to have absolutely no power whatsoever. If a party doesn't win nationally then every single MP they get still increases their influence in parliament so more votes does equal more power in a sense.

[FoxyPV]

I'm being stupid probably but how do you mean?

If both pay 31%, the 50k earner pays a larger amount but the amounts are proportional to their ability to pay? Isn't the idea of using a percentage system to make things fair in itself and not a method of closing the residual gap between the two? Obviously the higher earner is left with more, but that's the point in not living in a communist state isn't it? Incentive?

There's a good chance i've missed something simple if so the above will sound a load of rubbish

I'm just saying that a flat tax is grossly unfair on the vast majority of society so someone who earns £10k will only have around £6k a year to spend which proportional is a lot less than somone who earns more. Everyone would like to earn more but those from wealthier backgrounds have far greater social and educational advantages than those who come from poorer backgrounds.

Why not say work harder?

UKIP was set up by rich eurosceptic Tories so their manifesto will represent their electorate.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

Apologies if this have been covered - a new unheard theory on the mythical 'jobs tax'

Typical Tory scaremongering

[Webbo]

Apologies if this have been covered - a new unheard theory on the mythical 'jobs tax'

Typical Tory scaremongering

SHOCK NEWS!!!! The Guardian doesn't like the Tories.

[Phube]

If I believe voting Labour will have any chance of keeping the Tories out by the time the election comes around then I might.

If not then I'll likely vote Lib Dem again. I should hit up Billy Bragg and see if he can't get me a Plaid vote swap!

You Welshie's and your Tory hating makes me laugh...

[Benji]

I'm just saying that a flat tax is grossly unfair on the vast majority of society so someone who earns £10k will only have around £6k a year to spend which proportional is a lot less than somone who earns more. Everyone would like to earn more but those from wealthier backgrounds have far greater social and educational advantages than those who come from poorer backgrounds.

Why not say work harder?

UKIP was set up by rich eurosceptic Tories so their manifesto will represent their electorate.

I don't see how its technically unfair though, the idea of percentages is to make amounts proportional. If you earn more, the percetange system makes you pay more. Increasing the percentage for different earners like we currently do is effectively a second tax altogether which closes the gap between two different residual incomes. Not only are you paying your fair share, you're paying an additional amount on top. Remember that the type of people that keep getting targetted by tax changes are the same people that take very little from the public budget, they'll have private health care, they'll send their kids to private schools and unlikely travel on local buses to pop into town. I appreciate public finance contributes to much much more than that but you get my drift, there's only so far people will be pushed (and i'd imagine the recent 50p tax has stirred people up recently) and when they get up and leave like Jon the Hat mentioned earlier (I think it was), the amount of people paying in will decrease but the amount taken out will not. What's 50% of fk all?

Why not work harder? Because the moment you do Labour will be asking for half of it to chuck down the drain.

(I am a massively in debt, former student who has just been ousted from a job due to no work being left and deciding not to be on the doll and so only having small savings to live off for another year, I'm not some high flying banker with a chip on my shoulder.)