The England are s**t thread.

[Samilktray]

Kakas overrated.

[Tilley]

I'm being serious Ben, Kaka is so, so overrated. Rooney is faster, stronger, scores more goals, more creative and puts much more effort in.

Kaka always looks weak, unfit and lazy. Except his performances against Manchester United, I have never seen him produce anything to suggest he should be considered one of the best of the world.

[Guest ttfn]

I was chatting to a Brazilian guy in South Africa and asked him who his favourite English player was. In an instant he said 'Rooney' and went on to state that he thought he was at least as good as Messi.

Not saying I agree with him, but it's classic British revisionism to go back after the event and say he's not world class.

Fact is, before last season, when frankly he went nuts, he was still in the top 10 players in the world (no. 8 according to FourFourTwo). There can be little doubt that he is now in the top 5, and most would have him in the top 3.

[Phube]

Only the English somehow believe Rooney isn't a world class player (mostly since the WC), the Germans out here jizz all over him

I heard the Germans were chanting - "When you sit in row Z, and the ball hits your head... that's Wayne Rooney!"

[Bert]

There's a minimum 30 day mourning period apparently, the Sun demands it.

[marbelladave]

Rooney has had a stunning season for United, prior to the injury he was probably among the 4 or 5 best club players in the world.

But since Portugal 2004 when has he produced a quality performance for the international team in an important game.?

The answer of course is never, in the big games he goes missing or worse actively fooks things up. Yes I know, not match fit, played out of position, wrong partner, wrong system etc, etc.

Just excuses, excuses, excuses.

'England's Talisman' my arse!

[Dames]

I'm still waiting for the Inevitable world exclusive in the Sun from Wayne Rooney banging on about how he was still injured and had to play through the pain barrier.

In all honesty thats no sort of excuse, if your injured and can't play to your maximum then don't play. Instead the man has been totally selfish.

[purpleronnie]

I was chatting to a Brazilian guy in South Africa and asked him who his favourite English player was. In an instant he said 'Rooney' and went on to state that he thought he was at least as good as Messi.

Not saying I agree with him, but it's classic British revisionism to go back after the event and say he's not world class.

Fact is, before last season, when frankly he went nuts, he was still in the top 10 players in the world (no. 8 according to FourFourTwo). There can be little doubt that he is now in the top 5, and most would have him in the top 3.

[Bellend Sebastian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/07/how_damaged_is_englands_brand.html

Vaguely interesting, I thought

[Uncle Monty]

Fergie banging on about how the pressure got to Rooney, the guy needs to fooking man up.

[ROS5]

All i gonna say is we need an english manager who knows how english players play. Also, we need to not play 4-4-2 n try n play gerrard behind n rooney. Why did Cappello not start joe cole? That is the one question i want answering, and why did he play heskey so much?

[FoxyPV]

All i gonna say is we need an english manager who knows how english players play. Also, we need to not play 4-4-2 n try n play gerrard behind n rooney. Why did Cappello not start joe cole? That is the one question i want answering, and why did he play heskey so much?

McClaren

[Edmund]

McClaren

One bad manager doesn't mean that all mangers of the same nationality will suffer the same fate. You only have to look at managers in the past few decades that have succeeded who've all been English.

[MC Prussian]

Hope it hasn't been posted before - here's another interesting read on the England Situation:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2010/07/competing_interests_hamper_you.html

[davieG]

Hope it hasn't been posted before - here's another interesting read on the England Situation:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...hamper_you.html

Like I said the FA are as broke as the clubs having spent excessively and unnecessarily on a bloated Wembley.

[FoxyPV]

One bad manager doesn't mean that all mangers of the same nationality will suffer the same fate. You only have to look at managers in the past few decades that have succeeded who've all been English.

This is what happened the last time England took a knee jerk reaction after a foreign manager.

Personally you could put a potato in as manager for all I give a fuck but it's just tedious listening to this "We need an English manager" bollox every time something goes wrong.

All the arguments for/ against Capello and why there are few top flight English manager etc have already been posted.

[marbelladave]

The job of an England manager is simple.

He has to select, from the players available to England, a squad / team to represent England at international football. He needs to mold these players into a team, prepare them physically and mentally and get them to deliver a performance that is the best that England has to offer.

Simple isn't it...er no apparently not!

The FA require him to trot out all the 'big' players to keep the sponsors happy and play full strength teams in friendlies to maximise income, they do not appear remotely concerned that this stifles the development of our young players.

The very lack of young player coming through leads to an over reliance on 'experienced' player and the (apparent) need to pick players who are barely half fit.

The media, pandering to the huge 'Sky/Big4' fan base want him to play all the overhyped, overpaid players that they themselves have created. Fail to do so and you job is under serious threat, fail to pander to their every wim, the same.

When the team fails to perform to expectations there is always a call for heads to roll, players to be dropped etc. Not the 'Big' players who play for the top teams of course, just those poor muppets who have been drafted in to make up the numbers.

Come the September qualifiers no doubt the usual suspects will all be present, so long as they are fit (enough to jog that is) the likes of A Cole, Ferdinand (when fit) Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney, the very players that let us down in SA will remain 'untouchable'. A number of squad players will be scapegoated, Upson, Lennon, Heskey and SWP lead the list, Barry could go for failing to have a high enough profile and Terry might be dumped for talking back to Don Fabio. Gerrard will be captain, possibly the worst in our history and because our qualifying group is pretty easy, all the problems will be brushed under the carpet until we fall flat on our faces in the summer of 2012.

Christ, I've got the hump this morning...

[Phube]

The job of an England manager is simple.

He has to select, from the players available to England, a squad / team to represent England at international football. He needs to mold these players into a team, prepare them physically and mentally and get them to deliver a performance that is the best that England has to offer.

Simple isn't it...er no apparently not!

The FA require him to trot out all the 'big' players to keep the sponsors happy and play full strength teams in friendlies to maximise income, they do not appear remotely concerned that this stifles the development of our young players.

The very lack of young player coming through leads to an over reliance on 'experienced' player and the (apparent) need to pick players who are barely half fit.

The media, pandering to the huge 'Sky/Big4' fan base want him to play all the overhyped, overpaid players that they themselves have created. Fail to do so and you job is under serious threat, fail to pander to their every wim, the same.

When the team fails to perform to expectations there is always a call for heads to roll, players to be dropped etc. Not the 'Big' players who play for the top teams of course, just those poor muppets who have been drafted in to make up the numbers.

Supposedly this is why O'Neil didn't get the job...

He was asked if he would chose big players over other and he said no... end of interview...

[marbelladave]

Supposedly this is why O'Neil didn't get the job...

He was asked if he would chose big players over other and he said no... end of interview...

This has been around for a while.

There have been stories of such interference from the FA and others for some years, I usually regard them as the footballing equivalents of urban myths.

However the evidence is really beginning to add up. the stony silence over Rooney's fitness issues, the continued selection of 'untouchables' despite appalling form and fitness, the dumping of players who do not fit in with the 'culture' at the core of the England setup and the pandering to the huge 'Sky/Big4' fanbase is now too obvious to ignore.

It makes me wonder if Capello's inflexibility over the team's system and tactics is simply an attempt to control something, when control of so much is clearly in other hands.

The FA also regard England friendlies as primarily a money making excersise, hence the need to trott out our 'big' players to fulfill contract obligations to our opponents who are paying top money for the privilege of hosting a 'full strength' England side. Development of our younger players is not even a consideration.

It shows another side of Eriksson whose double digit half time substitutions can be seen as a real attempt at defiance against the FA and other vested interests.

[davieG]

This has been around for a while.

There have been stories of such interference from the FA and others for some years, I usually regard them as the footballing equivalents of urban myths.

However the evidence is really beginning to add up. the stony silence over Rooney's fitness issues, the continued selection of 'untouchables' despite appalling form and fitness, the dumping of players who do not fit in with the 'culture' at the core of the England setup and the pandering to the huge 'Sky/Big4' fanbase is now too obvious to ignore.

It makes me wonder if Capello's inflexibility over the team's system and tactics is simply an attempt to control something, when control of so much is clearly in other hands.

The FA also regard England friendlies as primarily a money making excersise, hence the need to trott out our 'big' players to fulfill contract obligations to our opponents who are paying top money for the privilege of hosting a 'full strength' England side. Development of our younger players is not even a consideration.

It shows another side of Eriksson whose double digit half time substitutions can be seen as a real attempt at defiance against the FA and other vested interests.

I could believe all that except I can't believe the big4 would allow their players to satisfy the needs of the FA by allowing them to play in friendlies, in fact I'm sure they prefer them not to and have the strength to stop it if they so wished. I guess there's an element of the players agents wanting them to play these games to maximise their revenue but not their clubs.

[purpleronnie]

I dont know why I bother but I read oliver holts column again and this time its making excuses for his idol Wayne rooney (despite oliver being a Stockport fan...yeah right)..He's.injured, the manager didnt play him in the right position or with the right players around him, rooney dislikes Capello et etc...

Never will they admit rooney isnt as good as other strikers.

[marbelladave]

I could believe all that except I can't believe the big4 would allow their players to satisfy the needs of the FA by allowing them to play in friendlies, in fact I'm sure they prefer them not to and have the strength to stop it if they so wished. I guess there's an element of the players agents wanting them to play these games to maximise their revenue but not their clubs.

Which is why there are always withdrawals and the odd fight over the issue. If the FA can be seen to be making the best possible attempt to produce the best team then presumably they can not be in breach of contract.

I also think the Premier League are aware of a bigger picture, a lot of England fans are not interested in the England team, but in seeing England's 'big' players in action, this is obvious from much of the marketing and in fact from the behaviour of the fans themselves. In friendlies the revenue from ticket sale, TV, sponsorship and the rest are all heavily dependent on the appearance of the top Premiership players who are themselves a bigger attraction than 'Team England'.

Clearly this promotes the 'Premier League' brand which might well explain why a lot of the top players are made available. (if only for 45m)

I accept that much of what I have written is speculation, but it is not uninformed and can not easily be dismissed as there is clearly something very wrong at the core of the team England set up...

[marbelladave]

I dont know why I bother but I read oliver holts column again and this time its making excuses for his idol Wayne rooney (despite oliver being a Stockport fan...yeah right)..He's.injured, the manager didnt play him in the right position or with the right players around him, rooney dislikes Capello et etc...

Never will they admit rooney isnt as good as other strikers.

There are a fair number of apologists in the 'Red Tops' and in the main the reasons are easy enough to work, usually the most simple one of all, the desire to stay 'in' with the 'top, top' players for status and professional reasons.

Which reminds me, did anyone else hear Steve Claridge on the Monday Night Club defending the players and laying into Capello and the England management very forceably?

Classic example of players sticking together and blaming everyone but themselves...

[purpleronnie]

It will happen all over again if we get rid of capello, as soon as we start losing it will be the managers fault. I dont understand why people dont see whats really wrong. Its weird.

[marbelladave]

It will happen all over again if we get rid of capello, as soon as we start losing it will be the managers fault. I dont understand why people dont see whats really wrong. Its weird.

Well, partly because it is the managers fault.

There are two issues here to get your head around.

Firstly the youth coaching system in this country favours the kind of big, athletic players that are successful in the Premier League. We simple do not produce the numbers of technically competent players that is the norm in Europe. That is nothing to do with Capello or 'Team England'.

Secondly there is the issue of putting together the best performing national side from the players we do have available. It is here that Capello and his management team have failed and surprisingly (to me) badly. Everything from squad and team selection, via fitness and conditioning regimes, to system and playing style was hopeless, Capello must take some of the blame for that.

He took old and crocked players who were simply not up to Tournament play, how and why did he do that? He left behind younger, fitter players on the grounds that they were 'inexperienced'. whose fault is that? He left a group of players at the core of the England team who clearly thought they were more important than the team or any pesky World Cup, again why did he do that?

Some of the posts above are an attempt to suggest reasons why these decisions were made, they defy any football logic, so maybe other factors come into play...