coale39 Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 I disagree, we panic on the ball because we are constantly looking to get rid of it. The best International teams are patient and composed on the ball, they wait for gaps to appear with short passing. Have to disagree. The teams that are doing well in this competition are the pressing, fast attacking, with pace teams that don't just sit on the ball and wait for an opportunity to arise. They create it. they go for it with enthusiasm and verve.
Fosse Boy Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 But will anything change? No. Because the ones with the power to change things at the top will continue to line their pockets by maintaining the status quo.
teblin Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 It worries me that i cannot think off that many top english forwards coming though. When the U21 has Andy Carroll in it its a poor show. Hopefully with the new rules the Premier league and football league have brought in where a certain amount of english player have tto be in the squad will help.
davieG Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 it's time to face a few facts and accept that the English game is rotten to the core some of the problems imo are: The Premier League is not the best league in the world so the sooner they stop coming out with that crap the better Some of Englands so called "star players" are far from world class English players are technically shocking been embarressed by every team we have played The lack of English Managers in top jobs is poor The lack of any desire or commitment for the big clubs to sign, develop or even play English players is non existent The number of foreign youngsters in the top clubs youth teams is crazy The number of good young English players coming through is stupidly small The greed of the premier league is disgusting The flow of money through the leagues just doesn't exist Almost every club is up shit creek financially The entire system in this country needs changing from the bottom up All equates to the Premier League and it's top clubs making fortune and they don't give shit about anyone else the 'top clubs' as businesses will only see every other club as a competitor. The Premier League with all it's power can choose to ignore any suggestions from the FA, The football League and fans from other clubs for improving the set up. Realistically the only organisation with any chance of changing things is FIFA unfortunately they are ruled by Sepp Blatter who seems to be doing very nicely without upsetting the status quo.
Ricey Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 Have to disagree. The teams that are doing well in this competition are the pressing, fast attacking, with pace teams that don't just sit on the ball and wait for an opportunity to arise. They create it. they go for it with enthusiasm and verve. Tempo may be the wrong word. My point is that whenever England had possession they straight away looked for the direct or long ball. If we played a system that encouraged the shorter balls and more composure on the ball we would be more effective, it would give players like Rooney more time to get into better positions. In this World Cup we've given the ball away too much because we constantly look for the spectacular ball rather than waiting for gaps to appear. The Germans did that perfectly.
davieG Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 It worries me that i cannot think off that many top english forwards coming though. When the U21 has Andy Carroll in it its a poor show. Hopefully with the new rules the Premier league and football league have brought in where a certain amount of english player have tto be in the squad will help. Not English, home grown, ie. nurtured in an English Academy so they can be any EU youngster. I'm assuming non EU youngsters wouldn't get work permits although as U16 trainees may not need them.
BlueSi13 Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 Ok im going against the grain here but can't some argue that this World Cup is a marked improvement from not qualifying 2 years ago and therefore England can be seen as an "improving" nation? I know to lose in that manner hurts and god it has sickened me being out here in Munich but ill always get behind England as i would Leicester despite the shame they've inflicted on all of us tonight. But imagine what it was like for them after the 5-1 on their own pitch....sometimes things can come back and bite you in the arse.... BTW the krauts celebrations are getting more and more euphoric as the night wears on Nice to see them smiling for a change to be fair!
coale39 Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 Tempo may be the wrong word. My point is that whenever England had possession they straight away looked for the direct or long ball. If we played a system that encouraged the shorter balls and more composure on the ball we would be more effective, it would give players like Rooney more time to get into better positions. In this World Cup we've given the ball away too much because we constantly look for the spectacular ball rather than waiting for gaps to appear. The Germans did that perfectly. Yeah, skipping the midfield rarely works, just look at City a couple of years ago!
Donut Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 ----------------------Hart Onuoha----Richards----Tomkins----Gibbs ------------Rodwell-------Muamba -----Lennon-------Wilshere------Johnson --------------------Walcott What an utterly DREADFUL team that is on paper Youve just picked 11 youngsters who werent attached to the world cup (except Lennon, he saw some minutes) Im not having a pop, but id just like to know your justifications for why you have picked this team considering:_ 1) Lennon and Walcott have pace and nothing else, no end product, no footballing brain, very limited ability and no end product, so i cant understand why Walcott of all people would be a focal point striker? 2) James Tomkins? Didnt he play a less than starring role in a team that nearly got relegated (OK you can level that at Upson too) 3) Youve given up completely on Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Terry, Ashley Cole? I mean this tournament is 2 years away and you are casting away all of them? 4) Are the players who have barely had a chance (like Warnock, Baines etc) totally for the scrapheap too? If the players we have NOW are overrated i dont think were going to get very far with Nedum Onuoha, Micah Richards, Fabrice Muamba and James Tomkins, with all respect
Donut Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 And herein lies the problem If these are the best players we have, these youngsters, we are in dire straits. Talk about overrated. seriously, come on
Suffolk_fox Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 Just watching the 'highlights' again. Gareth Barry left for dead on the first goal. Also he needed an extra touch just before the 3rd whereas the likes of Gerrard would have buried it off the volley. Lampard not scoring in a World Cup - coincidence? Sorry, but he's a modern times John Barnes. Too many games, our players look so tired.
Edmund Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 Souness was right. Training at high altitude was the problem.
Guest Bilo Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 With reference to the German approach to the game, I'd like to remind people that they too needed a wake-up call to get in the position they are now. Euro 2000, where they and us went out at the group stage showed that Germany were no longer guaranteed a seat at world football's top table due to their reputation. A huge change ensued in German football which has led to them producing a near conveyor belt of talent. South Africa 2010 must be the same to England because if it isn't, we won't be competitive for a generation or longer.
purpleronnie Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 With reference to the German approach to the game, I'd like to remind people that they too needed a wake-up call to get in the position they are now. Euro 2000, where they and us went out at the group stage showed that Germany were no longer guaranteed a seat at world football's top table due to their reputation. A huge change ensued in German football which has led to them producing a near conveyor belt of talent. South Africa 2010 must be the same to England because if it isn't, we won't be competitive for a generation or longer. Surely not qualifying for euro 2008 was a wake up call. We wont change the way we do things. We just wont. The manager might change but thats all.
Webbo Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 I hate these masochistic threads. I remember the 70s when England failed to qualify for the world cup twice, way before the PL. Players not bothered, come off it, do you honestly think these players wouldn't love to win the world cup? If so they must be the only males on the planet that don't I don't know what the answer is but all this self flagellation is pathetic and boring.
purpleronnie Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 I hate these masochistic threads. I remember the 70s when England failed to qualify for the world cup twice, way before the PL. Players not bothered, come off it, do you honestly think these players wouldn't love to win the world cup? If so they must be the only males on the planet that don't I don't know what the answer is but all this self flagellation is pathetic and boring. I agree to a degree I cant believe that players dont want to win the WC it makes no sense. But they certainly show a lack of fight. But all in all the players are simply not good enough.
Jay Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 With reference to the German approach to the game, I'd like to remind people that they too needed a wake-up call to get in the position they are now. Euro 2000, where they and us went out at the group stage showed that Germany were no longer guaranteed a seat at world football's top table due to their reputation. A huge change ensued in German football which has led to them producing a near conveyor belt of talent. South Africa 2010 must be the same to England because if it isn't, we won't be competitive for a generation or longer. trouble is the infrastructure doesn't want it, the big teams don't have the desire to support or develop English players, they are happy for a quick fix foreign option and money money money. unless the top clubs are forced to change their philosophy and without massive funding from the Premier League it will never happen and they aren't going to give any money away
Guest Bilo Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 Surely not qualifying for euro 2008 was a wake up call. We wont change the way we do things. We just wont. The manager might change but thats all. Fair. Since Germany's wake-up call, we've had numerous failures but the failure to qualify for Euro 2008 and this year's debacle surely take the biscuit. We seriously need to rethink the way we do things in this country.
MC Prussian Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 trouble is the infrastructure doesn't want it, the big teams don't have the desire to support or develop English players, they are happy for a quick fix foreign option and money money money. unless the top clubs are forced to change their philosophy and without massive funding from the Premier League it will never happen and they aren't going to give any money away That is, presumed they actually have any money at all.
BlueSi13 Posted 27 June 2010 Posted 27 June 2010 I still stick by what i said earlier, i think theres been quite a lot of over reactions here, disastrous result though it was.... Heres how me and my German friends called the game..... First 30 minutes England continue their form from the group stages with Germany in complete control, knocking it around at will, looking dangerous, and deservedly 2-0 up at that point....could have been 3 or 4 Upson then from knowhere grabs a goal back from a corner to put England back in a game where they'd been completely none existent upto that point.... Force is then with England as they pick up the pace and start knocking it around with intent and will before Lampard pings in a screamer 60 second after Upsons effort to make it 2-2 but wait.... Despite the set back England were now the dominant force, the Germans look shell shocked and in complete disarray at this stage of the game, England looking menacing and confident that they had the Germans on the ropes right until the whistle for half time.... Second half begins the same as the first ended with England having the lions share of the ball with the Germans resorting to sitting back with 10 behind the ball (ala the Ghana game) to preserve their slender lead, however England find it difficult to break down in frustration of the wall of white in front of them and lose a little momentum they had in the first half.... Despite this England keep their heads and attempt to push more numbers up in order to grab that all important second goal which would have put England so close to finishing a remarkable come back..... England then get a free kick in a great position (despite England not having a single person that can take a good free kick) and put numbers high but then disaster, England are caught out and punished by the Germans perfectly drilled counter attack with England disgracefully short on numbers at the back.... From that point on England are broken, in desperation we throw the same numbers up again in a vain attempt at getting ball over the Germans line but its far too late and the same happens again, Germans break and snatch an easy 4th.... England then pull numbers back to avoid a defeat that we'd never recover from..... So in essence from Upsons goal to Germany's third England for me were looking good and in control of the possession and flow of the game but grabbing that all important second goal proved elusive.... Ill always believe that if England had gotten that deserved second goal things would have been different, football is like that in the way its momentum swings one way and then the other....the demoralised Germans would have been forced to come out of their half and play more football leaving gaps for an elated England to possibly exploit.... As it was it was not to be, im not saying we were great or even good, but we certainly weren't a disgrace as some are saying here there and everywhere tonight....and the Germans still look mediocre to me, i don't think they will win another game this tournament as i think they can be picked apart when/if they go behind.... But maybe me and my friends saw it completely wrong
Jordan Posted 28 June 2010 Posted 28 June 2010 - Your defensive midfielder got caught out of position while your makeshift center back pairing got torched on a long ball, causing your team to fall behind early. - you had a perfectly good goal taken away by incompetent officiating - you have a big black guy up front that goes for balls in the air, backs into defenders, drifts aimlessly to the wing and shoots the ball anywhere but the back of the net. - your other forwards are a hodge-podge bunch of fast guys and guys that score bunches against mediocre teams in their leagues - Your manager has a lot of trouble picking the best XI even though everyone and his stepmother can pick our the best XI - you finished 1-2-0 in the group stage with a goal difference of 1 and got knocked out in the 2nd round USA and England just might be soulmates... Shitty, shitty soulmates
AyewJoking Posted 28 June 2010 Posted 28 June 2010 I think we tend to over-react in this country, myself included. We had a very bad 4 games. I know it was the world cup but cant we just forget about it and move on? Gerrard has been below par all season, it happens. Yet he was still one of the few that were reasonable. Lampard has been poor for England forever and personally, I wouldnt play him but we did and look where it got us. Barry simply not matchfit after so many weeks out. Rooney burned out and out of form plus the pressure led to him having an ineffective tournament. No Ferdinand, we missed him more than I ever thought possible. I could go on but I just want to forget about it all.
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