Students

[Zingari]

And so it should be - free education should be a birthright in a country like ours.

by a "country like ours" , do you mean one that is massively in debt ?

[breadandcheese]

And so it should be - free education should be a birthright in a country like ours.

- Free education to what age? Should you be able to have free education up to the age of 90?

- Does free education have to constitute being taught or could it mean access to information?

- What constitutes a birthright when there is a finite amount of money?

[phillip j fry]

as an employer i have more time for someone who has worked from 16 than someone who has swaned around at college/uni for years with a year off in thailand to find themselves.in my experience too many graduates have very little work ethic, belive that their education makes them better than the proles and that they have a right to have a good job.matt is right.and dont get me started on pissing on the cenotaph.fook em.

[l444ry]

[Dickie Greenleaf]

And so it should be - free education should be a birthright in a country like ours.

If you know anything about the higher education sector, to suggest that it should free, as a birthright, is absolutely ridiculous.

There's a lot of people missing the purpose of universities as research institutions filled with the brightest talents of the future. Undergraduate degrees are a service provided by universities to fund themselves, not their ultimate purpose and certainly not the god-given right of every 6th form leaver.

[Tommy G]

I'm glad the tuition fees have gone up, get rid of the free ride society.

Statistically people will earn more if they have a degree so quit moaning.

Maybe the increase in fees can pay for embaressment of last nights antics.

Most people's opinions of students will have nose dived after yday, whether it was the minority or not people still read the headlines

[Manwell Pablo]

The decision to go through with this has just proven to me that there is actually 0% point in voting in a general election. Tory Labour or Liberal they always end up doing the opposite of the pre election policys.

[Finnegan]

Would you like to explain to me what part of University education was a "free ride?"

Our fees were already disproportionately high, I went the very last year before Labour hiked the prices and now they've gone up again.

It isn't free, you know. A grant is a "free ride", a loan is something you have to pay back. Accommodation costs, courses cost, books and study aids cost, I don't know any students who are rolling in it (unless they're floated by their parents, which is another issue.)

Everybody seems to forget the fact that it is A LOAN. One that isn't exactly free of interest, either, the government (and the tax payer) do see the money back again at the other end you know?

All that tax dodger shit used to irk me when I was at MDX. I had a job whilst I studied in London, I did both, I had to to get by - as did plenty of people on my course and in my halls.

Nobody - I repeat - NOBODY should be happy to see university prices going up. If they are happy, they don't understand the facts, end of. Whether or not it's essential in times of recession is another matter - but that doesn't exactly mean we should be cheerful about it. Seriously, anyone celebrating this bill is a ****.

I've agreed with points raised by Matt and Tommy G in the past, I do think our school system should be churning out more people who are fit and prepared for work at sixteen without feeling the need to get into university and I do think people should be discouraged from taking stupid, mickey-mouse courses that are relevant to diddly shit. But hiking up prices for higher education flat across the board is a fucking shit, lazy way of fixing said issue.

[breadandcheese]

The decision to go through with this has just proven to me that there is actually 0% point in voting in a general election. Tory Labour or Liberal they always end up doing the opposite of the pre election policys.

Slight overreaction.

Anyone who voted for the Lib Dems in the election have seen them to be the party that Labour and Tory voters have always derided them for. A party for opposition who can make dream promises and take judgements on issues from the safety of never having to be in a position to do anything about them.

Well it's backfired as they became the kingmakers in the election and became part of a government.

Labour looked at the issue of university funding when in power and instigated the review into funding. The current Tory-Lib Dem government have taken a look and come to the same sad conclusion as the previous government.

If anything, I hope those voting for the Lib Dems have learnt not to believe in false politics when both main parties are saying their policy is unsustainable.

[Dickie Greenleaf]

Having just finished uni, I'd have to say it is a myth that Student's have a hard time. Compared with when my parents went, its unrecognisable by the sounds of it. They were lucky if they could go to the pub a couple of times a week and wouldn't ever be able to eat out and stuff. Nowadays I see birds walking round with Louis Vuitton and Marc Jacobs handbags and know dudes who had football season tickets every year

[breadandcheese]

Nobody - I repeat - NOBODY should be happy to see university prices going up. If they are happy, they don't understand the facts, end of. Whether or not it's essential in times of recession is another matter - but that doesn't exactly mean we should be cheerful about it. Seriously, anyone celebrating this bill is a ****.

This I agree with. In an ideal world, university education would be free. Unfortunately, we have a debt that we have to service so cuts have to be made. It's not a happy thing but it is necessary.

[FoxyPV]

Graduates earn on average £100k more than a non grad during their lifetimes which is just over £2k a year which hardly anything to write home about.

dickie - the difference is we have access to debt which our parents never had and therefore can rack up massive debts on top of our loans. My dad was able to use his grant to pay his rent and go interrailing.

I've never been able to afford to do that and I had my fees paid for me as I was an independent student.

[Tommy G]

For the record I'm glad I voted Tory!

What is so difficult to digest about having to pay for something that will benefit you later in life (without going into the argument about micky mouse degree's/uni's)

People still have a choice don't they? I had the choice, I was academically able to go to uni. But instead I'm currently being paid to study, whilst having about £5k of course fees paid for me.

I'm not a smug **** or anything, I consider my self lucky to have made the right choice and not the follow the "norm".

But hey, if people want to study film at Winchester and want to pay to do it then fine. Don't come crying to me when your degree is worth the equivalent of a bag of pork scratchings in 10 years time.

Another annoying thing is the moaning society, just get the fook on with life and work hard and you'll be fine.

I don't give a crap about the controversy of any post on here, I would rather be in my position than any other grad I know at the min. Plus 20k better off.

Up the Tories

[Manwell Pablo]

Slight overreaction.

Anyone who voted for the Lib Dems in the election have seen them to be the party that Labour and Tory voters have always derided them for. A party for opposition who can make dream promises and take judgements on issues from the safety of never having to be in a position to do anything about them.

Well it's backfired as they became the kingmakers in the election and became part of a government.

Labour looked at the issue of university funding when in power and instigated the review into funding. The current Tory-Lib Dem government have taken a look and come to the same sad conclusion as the previous government.

If anything, I hope those voting for the Lib Dems have learnt not to believe in false politics when both main parties are saying their policy is unsustainable.

Well as I voted Lib Dem you can see my frustration. I'm not sure I could bring myself to do it again.

[Houdini Logic]

Zingari - I appreciate we have a deficit but at what point do you stop cutting? We can't get rid of absolutely everything - we still do have at least one or two people paying taxes you know. So it's all just a case of prioritising, and I personally feel that education should be one of the items at the top of the list.

I'd rather the money was put into keeping education free than the £5Billion we spend on Conflicts each year (or insert example of similar waste of money here)

Dickie Greenleaf - your argument is embarrassing - you're suggesting that people are 'missing the purpose of universities as research institutions filled with the brightest talents of the future', which is exactly what Universities won't be if you price out a percentage of the population - they'll be full of people with money, not people with brains.

Bread and Cheese - I think giving more people the chance to apply to university will enable the Universities to select the best people for the right degree - so if the university decides an applicant has something to offer at 90 then yes

Tommy G - Read The Sun per chance?

[Houdini Logic]

For the record I'm glad I voted Tory!

What is so difficult to digest about having to pay for something that will benefit you later in life (without going into the argument about micky mouse degree's/uni's)

People still have a choice don't they? I had the choice, I was academically able to go to uni. But instead I'm currently being paid to study, whilst having about £5k of course fees paid for me.

I'm not a smug **** or anything, I consider my self lucky to have made the right choice and not the follow the "norm".

But hey, if people want to study film at Winchester and want to pay to do it then fine. Don't come crying to me when your degree is worth the equivalent of a bag of pork scratchings in 10 years time.

Another annoying thing is the moaning society, just get the fook on with life and work hard and you'll be fine.

I don't give a crap about the controversy of any post on here, I would rather be in my position than any other grad I know at the min. Plus 20k better off.

Up the Tories

This is an advert for the abolishment of tuition fees

[Maybes]

Agree with what Tommy G is saying. I myself find myself studying a professional qualification that will actually get me somewhere in my career and has future prospects.

Too many people that I know of have ended up fumbling into some tinpot university going to study geography becuase they got semi-decent grades at A Level etc.

If anything it should enhance the value of a degree.

[Tilley]

But hey, if people want to study film at Winchester and want to pay to do it then fine. Don't come crying to me when your degree is worth the equivalent of a bag of pork scratchings in 10 years time.

Too many people that I know of have ended up fumbling into some tinpot university going to study geography becuase they got semi-decent grades at A Level etc.

If anything it should enhance the value of a degree.

[Tommy G]

It will enhance the value of the degree. The layabouts who wanted a 2:1 in Strongbow will now have to justify spending £6k on it instead.

Some people say "I'm going to go to university because I'm not sure what to do in life?"

I'm sorry but that is bullshit. There is also time to go to university in later life when you have exhausted other options. A £20k stop gap, do we want to people who can't make these kind of decisions going onto FE?

Degree's use to be for the elite and degree's had value, unfortunately over the past decade the value has shot down unless you are at a red brick.

"Education for all" is brilliant in theory, but not at the expense of my taxes thank you very much. Stick the money in the NHS not in the Student Union at Telford Poly

[Dickie Greenleaf]

Dickie Greenleaf - your argument is embarrassing - you're suggesting that people are 'missing the purpose of universities as research institutions filled with the brightest talents of the future', which is exactly what Universities won't be if you price out a percentage of the population - they'll be full of people with money, not people with brains.

No they won't.

Re-read that Martin Lewis article. People don't start paying back the loan until they earning around/just over the current median UK wage. No money is required up front. You pay back less per month than you would do under the current system. So if people's earnings never get to the median level then they wont have to pay anything back and if they do, then they only have to pay at a reasonable rate. The flaws are obviously the interest not being linked to inflation, but generally I don't see how people can complain as much as they are.

[Asha]

I swear though that the real motive behind some people's general dislike for university, students who go there and the degrees they choose is just sour grapes - because they didn't get the chance to go, or the grades, or regret not going, or whatever. And said people are obviously going to revel in the fact that it's now harder for students to afford to go.

What makes you qualified to judge which degrees have value and which don't? I'll be doing Religious Studies at Uni, am I wasting my life?

Of course, I could always go for the alternative and take up a trade or something, but the successive miserable posts from Matt in the 'How was your day' thread portraying the in's and out's of such employment over the years have safely put me off that idea for life. No thanks.

[Dickie Greenleaf]

What makes you qualified to judge which degrees have value and which don't? I'll be doing Religious Studies at Uni, am I wasting my life?

No, not necessarily, but it is a fact that our country/economy cannot support and does not have the need for the levels of 'graduates' that Labour encouraged over the last decade

[Houdini Logic]

No they won't.

Re-read that Martin Lewis article. People don't start paying back the loan until they earning around/just over the current median UK wage. No money is required up front. You pay back less per month than you would do under the current system. So if people's earnings never get to the median level then they wont have to pay anything back and if they do, then they only have to pay at a reasonable rate. The flaws are obviously the interest not being linked to inflation, but generally I don't see how people can complain as much as they are.

The current average debt for studying a degree is £25k, and that's before the new increase!

Are you genuinely trying to tell me that that won't put people off?!

[Houdini Logic]

I swear though that the real motive behind some people's general dislike for university, students who go there and the degrees they choose is just sour grapes - because they didn't get the chance to go, or the grades, or regret not going, or whatever. And said people are obviously going to revel in the fact that it's now harder for students to afford to go.

What makes you qualified to judge which degrees have value and which don't? I'll be doing Religious Studies at Uni, am I wasting my life?

Of course, I could always go for the alternative and take up a trade or something, but the successive miserable posts from Matt in the 'How was your day' thread portraying the in's and out's of such employment over the years have safely put me off that idea for life. No thanks.

I agree and I never understand why people take a 'us' and 'them' attitude - it's unfortunate.

[Trav Le Bleu]

If I was PM, I'd adopt the time-honoured tactic of all teachers and say, "Right, a few idiots have gone and spoiled it for everyone - so now you have to pay £10,000".

The extra thousands should help with the repairs.

Let's play hardball!