Students

[Asha]

100% yes. What the hell does that even lead to??

All sorts! Thanks for asking

http://www.me.vccs.edu/career/majors/information/religious.pdf

Not exactly sure what I want to do job-wise, but some sort of missionary work sounds awesome, shaped into some sort of career.

I could see myself being a pretty good teacher too, if I end up going that way.

[potter3]

Ahh.. Crying... that must be what I was doing - I thought I was attempting to debate with people who seem to be generally angry in life.

So I assume that you think the extra debt won't put anyone off studying a degree?

It may do, but if they truly want to pursue a career in whatever their prospective degree is in, it won't put them off.

It also will not become a case of only rich kids being able to go, you have to pay nothing up front, as is the case at the moment.

[Nick]

Really have no idea which way to go with this. Embarrased by and for the ****** tearing up London yet the attitude of the "ohhh look at me I know a trade, work full time, pay my taxes" etc. etc. Is cringy as fvck.

Tommeh - telling it like it is. +1

[Tommy G]

This could roll of for days but the facts are that students are going to have to pay more money to attend university.

I will gladly listen how this discriminates the poor or "is only for rich kids" but you can't hide the fact that grads will now have more disposable income when graduating than ever before.

Just an excuse for people (and complete cvnts as shown last night) to throw a paddy when a decision doesn't go there way.

Will you see directors of companies kicking down the doors of parliament when the VAT goes up to 20%? No, you probably won't.

Businesses won't obtain anything tangible from that extra cost, unlike a degree. I understand it is not like for like and non comparable but the same principle.

It's just life, I love the democratic system but sometimes it doesn't go your way. Time for people to take changes on the chin, or move abroad.

fooking hate the moan culture

[Jackirius]

Let me guess, most of the people arguing for the new Legislation are......

1. Are aged 25+

2. Do not have children

3. Conservative

[Maybes]

Let me guess, most of the people arguing for the new Legislation are......

1. Are aged 25+

2. Do not have children

3. Conservative

:laugh:

Obviously

[The Doctor]

You are talking absolute shit.

If you were self secure in your decision about the value of degree's then you wouldn't feel the need to Justify the fees charged.

It will be £10k extra for example, that's penuts over a 40 year working life surely? Especially with the fantastic job opportunities that a degree nets you.

For what i want to do in life i'm going to need a degree and probably a PhD, meaning i'm would have been in debt to the tune of roughly 25k already, granted the tuition fee rises will only affect me with the PhD, but with the tuition fee increases that debt will be closer to 30k. What you're saying is that, in order to make what i feel is the most of my life, i should have to now end up in around about 30k of debt (not including interest) from education alone before i start earning enough to pay it back.

You don't start paying it back until YOU EARN OVER £20 odd K FFS!! How is that discriminating the poor??

you don't start paying the loan back until you're earning 21k, but the loan and grant combined won't cover tuition fees, rent, food + drink costs, books, notepads and other essentials. They'll need to have either support from home or get a job and at the moment we're in a recession - Not many families are going to be able to support themselves and their son/daughter and there aren't going to be that many jobs available to the students, meaning those that can afford to go will be those with rich parents therefore those from poorer backgrounds are discriminated against.

[potter3]

It's not real debt.

[Finnegan]

As a karate expert, I will not talk about anyone in this thread.

[Benji]

you don't start paying the loan back until you're earning 21k, but the loan and grant combined won't cover tuition fees, rent, food + drink costs, books, notepads and other essentials. They'll need to have either support from home or get a job and at the moment we're in a recession - Not many families are going to be able to support themselves and their son/daughter and there aren't going to be that many jobs available to the students, meaning those that can afford to go will be those with rich parents therefore those from poorer backgrounds are discriminated against.

That's not relevant really though as it's the same under the current system. You have to pay just as much rent, food and drink, books etc at the minute from the maintenance loan/grant and off your own back/parent's finances in addition to the racking up of £3,000 a year.

The only difference now is that the tuition fee figure of £3,000 a year is up to £9,000. There was never going to be any extra support for the non-tuition fee finances, nor does the NUS or labour party propose one.

The discrimination between rich and poor for the money that you actually need during the degree, the rent etc, will be exactly the same (+2.5% VAT rise).

[Webbo]

Let me guess, most of the people arguing for the new Legislation are......

1. Are aged 25+

2. Do not have children

3. Conservative

1.Yes.

2.I have 2 teenagers and a 12 year old.

3.Yes.

Nobody likes to see rising prices but the money has to come from somewhere. If this doesn't go through then money will have to be cut from somewhere else. What would you suggest? Less money for primary schools? Perhaps we should make cuts in the NHS?What about giving the army inferior equipment and making them easier targets?

Some people have suggested not fighting wars, well this govt didn't start any of these wars and have given a timetable for withdrawal so that doesn't stack up.

[Daggers]

Not exactly sure what I want to do job-wise, but some sort of missionary work sounds awesome, shaped into some sort of career.

Christ on a bike! Don't you think the Third World has enough to worry about with debt, war, famine, drought and AIDS without you turning up spouting shit about a fictitious pile of bollocks?

[The Doctor]

That's not relevant really though as it's the same under the current system. You have to pay rent, food and drink, books etc on your own while racking up £3,000 a year owed to the government.

The only difference here is the figure of £3,000 a year is up to £9,000. There was never going to be any extra support for the non-tuition fee finances, nor does the student union or labour party propose one.

The discrimination in the money that you actually need during the degree, the rent etc, will be exactly the same (+2.5% VAT rise).

but is the value of any of the loans or grants going up? If it is then yes my point is completely irrelevant, but if not then students will have less, if any, of the loans left to cover living costs after paying tuition fees and so are going to need more money coming in outside of the loans + grants than they currently do.

[Daggers]

Nobody likes to see rising prices but the money has to come from somewhere ...

Some people have suggested not fighting wars, well this govt didn't start any of these wars and have given a timetable for withdrawal so that doesn't stack up.

Why? Why does the money have to come from somewhere? Why can't we all simply say to Universities that if they wish to cover increasing costs they earn it elsewhere?

And as far as paying for it, the last time I looked - our Trident program was one motherfvcking expensive white elephant.

[potter3]

but is the value of any of the loans or grants going up? If it is then yes my point is completely irrelevant, but if not then students will have less, if any, of the loans left to cover living costs after paying tuition fees and so are going to need more money coming in outside of the loans + grants than they currently do.

The value of the loans will increase to cover tuition fees, as before, the maintenance grant and/or loan will remain the same, as far as I can tell. They are seperate loans, if your tuition fee < max tuition loan, you don't get the excess in your pocket.

[Webbo]

Why? Why does the money have to come from somewhere? Why can't we all simply say to Universities that if they wish to cover increasing costs they earn it elsewhere?

And as far as paying for it, the last time I looked - our Trident program was one motherfvcking expensive white elephant.

I think most of that money's already been spent. I suppose we could try selling it, Iran might be interested.

[Fosse Boy]

Of course there are daft degrees that people with no real clue as to why they're at university do, but that really isn't a great argument for justifying the raising of fees. Yes, too many have been led into believing that FE is their only option by their schools and the government who are trying to making their statistics look good, but to punish all students becuase of that is ridiculous. Some of the stereotyping that's going on in this thread is downright ridiculous.

[Benji]

but is the value of any of the loans or grants going up? If it is then yes my point is completely irrelevant, but if not then students will have less, if any, of the loans left to cover living costs after paying tuition fees and so are going to need more money coming in outside of the loans + grants than they currently do.

You get two loans:

1. Tuition fee loan (paid direct to the university)

2. Maintenance loan (paid to you, to go towards rent etc - but never enough to cover all of it, I studied in London and it was extremely insufficient)

These plans do not effect in any way the second loan, you don't receive a lump sum and then choose how you want to split it up. No one pockets leftovers from the first loan.

If the tuition fees go up to £9,000, then (at least this is what happened to me each year when the fees rose with inflation) the tuition fee loan will rise from £3,000 to £9,000. So the only difference is you owe the government more. But they'll never knock on your door for it, they'll never get the bailiffs to come round. And if you are lucky enough to get a well paid job, you pay only a % of the money earned OVER that threshold, as with income tax.

It's a paper loan, you never know it ever existed until you earn over £21,000 or whatever the figure may be.

The maintenance loan is separate and will, I imagine, be the same as it is currently plus any rise with inflation. So in terms of money available for rent, food etc, it will be proportionally the same amount as what I got over 2006/2009. There is no extra cash for rich kids, and likewise no less cash for "poor" kids. If anything, the poorer kids get more through maintenance grants and a reduction in interest rates because of the grant.

This is a rise in tuition fees, the money that the majority of people earn after graduating is not enough to ever actually begin to pay off the owed amount and so it just gets wiped off after 25 or so years. The only people to be effected are those that do get a "good" salary (over the threshold) and have to pay for the courses of everyone else.

[Suffolk_fox]

Trade professionals (Builders, painters etc) have to pay for their training - a friend of mine is a Health & Safety Consultant and he has to pay lots of money to be able to hold qualifications necessary for his job. Why should students be any different??

They at least don't have to pay up front. If someone wants to get themselves an advanced education to earn more money in the future, they should pay for it. It's called investing in yourself.

And the book should be well and truly thrown at the thugs who have caused so much mayhem - lock the fookers up!

[lildave3]

All sorts! Thanks for asking

http://www.me.vccs.edu/career/majors/information/religious.pdf

Not exactly sure what I want to do job-wise, but some sort of missionary work sounds awesome, shaped into some sort of career.

I could see myself being a pretty good teacher too, if I end up going that way.

Well fair enough then, I hope you enjoy making a career out of 'volunteering' or working at a Synagogue.

[breadandcheese]

Do people not yet appreciate that this is not about saving money but about ensuring that "the right type of people" get to go to University (millionaires children).

Imagine you are a Gideon or a Dave at University and having to share lecture theatres and education with people from "lesser backgrounds". It must be stopped. Higher education is for the upper classes. Plenty of jobs in factories or cleaning the streets for everybody else (even if it now has to be as a volunteer in a "Big Society).

This isn't a party political issue. The current government is following the recommendations of the report commissioned by the previous Labour government. There seems to be an attempt to portray this as evil Tory cuts, when in fact, all 3 main parties (Tories, Labour and Lib Dems) have now looked at the funding of tertiary education and come to the same conclusion.

[Finnegan]

This isn't a party political issue. The current government is following the recommendations of the report commissioned by the previous Labour government. There seems to be an attempt to portray this as evil Tory cuts, when in fact, all 3 main parties (Tories, Labour and Lib Dems) have now looked at the funding of tertiary education and come to the same conclusion.

As I said earlier, let's not forget that Blairite New Labour hiked the prices in the first place back around '06.

[coale39]

These 'loans' are written off after 30 years. 25 for me under old system. If a graduate on this new scheme was earning like 22k, they would only be paying like 8 quid a month.

[Asha]

Well fair enough then, I hope you enjoy making a career out of 'volunteering' or working at a Synagogue.

I will mate, cheers.

What do you do again?

[FoxyPV]

Christ on a bike! Don't you think the Third World has enough to worry about with debt, war, famine, drought and AIDS without you turning up spouting shit about a fictitious pile of bollocks?

:thumbsup: