Students

[The Padster]

I've just seen that, appalling.

Fair play to the coppers. The crowds are throwing stuff and charging the police with metal fences, what the fook did they expect to happen ?

[Unit]

Fair play to the coppers. The crowds are throwing stuff and charging the police with metal fences, what the fook did they expect to happen ?

I was watching it earlier, the police told them to go down that way so tons of people walked down there and then at the other end there was police blocking their paths.

Anyway, the main thing I've learnt from this whole protest and watching it on BBC news is that central london has next to no Christmas lights!

[Jackirius]

Fair play to the coppers. The crowds are throwing stuff and charging the police with metal fences, what the fook did they expect to happen ?

And you have the cheek to call someone else a moron.

[breadandcheese]

Sitting at our computers, unaware of the true picture, I don't think we can judge the police response or the protestors' conduct.

[Fosse Boy]

Vote to rise maximum fees to 9k passed with majority of 21.

[breadandcheese]

As i watch the interviews with students and other protestors, I become more and more convinced that we should be reducing the numbers of those going to uni. Some of these people are so stupid, it would be a travesty to have to subsidise them to go to university.

I particularly like it when people talk about how that millionaire Cameron and his millionaire mates are bringing this in and stealing the futures of the young. Like it or not, this has cross-party consensus. As much as Labour are using the protection of opposition, they instigated Lord Browne to investigate university funding and would have agreed with it if they had formed the government. Those who have been tasked by the government with looking at this issue over the last few years have come up with similar models. Alan Johnson (a former education minister) virtually admitted that with his stance on the issue.

In an ideal world, university education should be free, but we as a country cannot afford it and unless we cut the number of students (and by extension the number of universities) then tuition fees have to rise. At most universities, the fees will be £6,000 per year.

[Unit]

As i watch the interviews with students and other protestors, I become more and more convinced that we should be reducing the numbers of those going to uni. Some of these people are so stupid, it would be a travesty to have to subsidise them to go to university.

I particularly like it when people talk about how that millionaire Cameron and his millionaire mates are bringing this in and stealing the futures of the young. Like it or not, this has cross-party consensus. As much as Labour are using the protection of opposition, they instigated Lord Browne to investigate university funding and would have agreed with it if they had formed the government. Those who have been tasked by the government with looking at this issue over the last few years have come up with similar models. Alan Johnson (a former education minister) virtually admitted that with his stance on the issue.

In an ideal world, university education should be free, but we as a country cannot afford it and unless we cut the number of students (and by extension the number of universities) then tuition fees have to rise. At most universities, the fees will be £6,000 per year.

Not to open a whole new kettle of fish but maybe not following America into pointless wars could save a few quid?

[The Padster]

And you have the cheek to call someone else a moron.

Damn right. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it's common sense if you are facing upto the mounted/riot/general police, you don't throw stuff or charge them 'cause your gonna get charged back. Their moaning all over the place about the conduct of the police but it does not help your cause when your cracking concrete blocks up to chuck and trying to set fire to statues.

[lavrentis]

Do second year and third year students get affected by this, for example if someone started university 2 years before the rise in fees could their last year be double the cost or doesn't it affect them?

[breadandcheese]

Not to open a whole new kettle of fish but maybe not following America into pointless wars could save a few quid?

This is discussion for a separate thread so I'll only reply once and leave it at that.

The war in Afghanistan is not pointless, and we are obliged to stand by America under out NATO obligations. NATO as an organisation voted and agreed that America had been attacked on 9/11. We are therefore duly obliged to stand with them as they have stood by us throughout the previous century when we needed it most. The war against Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan is therefore our legal and moral obligation to fight alongside America.

The war in Iraq is admittedly far different. WMD's were never found and so we were there on dubious ground. Our troops have now left Iraq.

[Fox You Forest]

Is Del Boy over the back there knocking out them metal fences for a fiver?

[Jackirius]

Do second year and third year students get affected by this, for example if someone started university 2 years before the rise in fees could their last year be double the cost or doesn't it affect them?

Nope, 2nd and 3rds are alright.

[ousefox]

Does it come in 2012 or 2013? I've seen both figures been mentioned...

[Asha]

I'll be going to university next year, grades permitting.

Looks like I'll be there just in time to avoid the rises too, which is nice.

[Fosse Boy]

I'll be going to university next year, grades permitting.

Looks like I'll be there just in time to avoid the rises too, which is nice.

Well bully for you then.

[sdb]

this is one of those situations where very few people have come out looking good.

very dark day imo (and dont make a joke about it nearly being 21st Dec).

[lcfc_jme]

Well bully for you then.

lol

The Lib Dems have by and large ensured that they're set to go back into political obscurity as a pointless party at the next election. Well played to them.

[Corky]

Is Del Boy over the back there knocking out them metal fences for a fiver?

I'm gonna flog 'em some of this ski gear!

Seriously, this is all getting out of hand. Students as we all know aren't the most popular group, this sort of thing (whether they are students or not throwing objects) won't bring about public sympathy and understanding.

[Fox You Forest]

I'm gonna flog 'em some of this ski gear!

Looks like he's getting some more use out of those Brixton riot rocks.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

lol

The Lib Dems have by and large ensured that they're set to go back into political obscurity as a pointless party at the next election. Well played to them.

Which is a shame, as there's some good people in the party, but they'll be the ones who'll pay for the ministers' decisions at the next election.

[Houdini Logic]

As i watch the interviews with students and other protestors, I become more and more convinced that we should be reducing the numbers of those going to uni. Some of these people are so stupid, it would be a travesty to have to subsidise them to go to university.

I particularly like it when people talk about how that millionaire Cameron and his millionaire mates are bringing this in and stealing the futures of the young. Like it or not, this has cross-party consensus. As much as Labour are using the protection of opposition, they instigated Lord Browne to investigate university funding and would have agreed with it if they had formed the government. Those who have been tasked by the government with looking at this issue over the last few years have come up with similar models. Alan Johnson (a former education minister) virtually admitted that with his stance on the issue.

In an ideal world, university education should be free, but we as a country cannot afford it and unless we cut the number of students (and by extension the number of universities) then tuition fees have to rise. At most universities, the fees will be £6,000 per year.

Surely if they're stupid then education would be the best thing for them?

[whitlock]

Nope, 2nd and 3rds are alright.

Buzzing.

[Zingari]

Surely if they're stupid then education would be the best thing for them?

only if you believe intelligence can be taught to stupid people

[lavrentis]

Nope, 2nd and 3rds are alright.

Ah ok thanks.

I'll be going to university next year, grades permitting.

Looks like I'll be there just in time to avoid the rises too, which is nice.

Where you applied to Nuss

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

There are many things wrong/despicable with this;

Firstly, the economics of this have done on the back of cigarette packet. Put simply, they don't add up. It adds to the national debt by billions. I said this about 6 weeks ago, here. Which then made the Guardian and Left Foot Forward , and again last week.

, citing the economic fallacy well before the IFS, HEPI and the OBR - who all now corroborate this analysis. To say it's iffy is not going far enough... Thus washing it up in the deficit reduction argument is factually incorrect.

(now enough of blowing my own trumpet)

Secondly, this is reminiscent of how the government are passing on responsibility to its citizens. Thatcher said "there is no such thing as society"...of course students should contribute to their education, they afterall do benefit from higher education. They are no the only ones to benefit though - like it or not, society does benefit too. Thus there is a strong case for society and the state to recognise that, and make a contribution.

Thirdly, progressive...hardly. The raising of the threshold of repayment to £21k is little over what £15k was in real terms after inflation - so I would not read too much into that. Fundamentally it cannot be progressive, how on earth does that fit into a price rise like this? Oh and by the way graduate employment is at a 17 year low, bodes well for the retrospective repayment aspect!

Read between the lines, and this is ideologically driven. "we have no choice" - wrong again, making last minute tweaks to the policy showed that line to be false. In reality everything they do is choice driven. As for the deficit debate, comparing us to Greece was ludicrous on many counts (but I'll save that for another time...)...

Introducing the market, as we've seen in other sectors, on the whole is inefficient. With regards to the NHS, private finance increases transaction costs and there are many externalities. We had, before Thatcher and then Major (internal markets) a remarkably well run health service. Incidentally it still is comparitvely, but the market is grinding it down. Bit off point!.......but look at the USA, whose healthcare and higher education are predominately free market. Their health system is great...to those who can afford it. They have disgracefully low infant mortality compared to European Welfare states (I can cite figures if you like!). In regards to their higher education system, I had a conversation with an American friend of mine who is in the process of completing a PhD. What struck me was that the cost of her education, and her peers (so its not unusual) - she threw a ballpark figure of $200,000...

Welcome to market Britain...

Rant over. I'm off down the pub.