Students

[Wymsey]

Just admit it:

Most students that demonstrated in London = Clearly asked for trouble by being fooking lunatics.

[Jackirius]

Yeah, fookin Event Culture.

As long as an overbored generation of spoilt brats can get a new kick out of smashing things up, all is good in La-La-Land.

I thought it looked 'smashing'.

[MC Prussian]

Back in the days when conditions were actually poor, you had a cause to protest for.

Nowadays, one protests to cause problems.

[Jackirius]

Back in the days when conditions were actually poor, you had a cause to protest for.

Nowadays, one protests to cause problems.

Well to be fair i think out of 54000 people at the protest the 120 which were violent weren't students and were just their to cause trouble. The other 53880 people were peaceful and were campaigning for the future students coming up which would have to pay extortionate fees. I'm not going to uni but i would be pretty pissed off if i needed to attend to gain a qualification which i needed for a future job and after which would be left with a gigantic amount of debt hanging over my head for the next 10-20 years.

[MC Prussian]

Well, another part of the problem is that in the years that were spent promoting "higher education", the alternatives got pretty much neglected and sort of disappeared off the public radar.

Apprenticeships and colleges have become unattractive, yet need as much appreciation as universities have received in the past 20+ years.

Sadly, school kids get way too often and way too early drilled into "Uni mode" by teachers and parents alike.

To me, it's all about the right mix in order for society, economy and individuals taking the most out of it.

The sole focus on getting a degree in a (more or less) theoretical field in the past has resulted in a rather one-sided situation as of today.

With more and more schools and universities opening up in all kinds of places offering an overabundance of (sometimes useless) titles, degrees are more and more being handed out by an inflationary rate and, unfortunately, are also being abused as a surrogate for status.

Which degrades and/or negates the original idea behind getting a degree.

[Unit]

I remember posting on here about 2/3 years ago. Basically I had the choice of going to uni or going and getting a job, I wanted to go and get a job but was slightly jealous of a lot of my mates who'd fooked off and were having a laugh at uni. Anyway, the general agreement from the thread on here and the people around me was that I should go to uni, I'm at uni now, it's crap.

I'm always about 12k down and I'm not even half way through a degree I don't understand. I should've gone for a job but I didn't, I'm now almost stuck in this system (I might aswell finish, surely?) and wont be out of it for a while yet.

However, if at the time of me applying to uni I'd have known fee's would have been this high, fook that. The main reason I went was because I got a bursary big enough to treat my mum to a washing machine.

Basically, if you're around the age of applying to uni and you're reading this, think twice about it. It's hyped up to fook, it's harder than people make out, you'll be skint as fook for a long while, and degrees will soon mean nothing, everybody will have one (hopefully including me - which says something!!).

[lildave3]

I freaking hate students.

I stand by my hatred aswell, despite knowing quite a few people at uni. Bastards.

(and I don't even know what cracked off today, this is just general opinion!)

[ajthefox]

Well, another part of the problem is that in the years that were spent promoting "higher education", the alternatives got pretty much neglected and sort of disappeared off the public radar.

Apprenticeships and colleges have become unattractive, yet need as much appreciation as universities have received in the past 20+ years.

Sadly, school kids get way too often and way too early drilled into "Uni mode" by teachers and parents alike.

To me, it's all about the right mix in order for society, economy and individuals taking the most out of it.

The sole focus on getting a degree in a (more or less) theoretical field in the past has resulted in a rather one-sided situation as of today.

With more and more schools and universities opening up in all kinds of places offering an overabundance of (sometimes useless) titles, degrees are more and more being handed out by an inflationary rate and, unfortunately, are also being abused as a surrogate for status.

Which degrades and/or negates the original idea behind getting a degree.

You've hit the nail on the head there, the main reason why so many people go to uni, drop out or get a degree they aren't interested in/ is useless to them is because the alternatives either aren't there or aren't advertised enough.

I was fortunate in that I decided I wanted to do architecture before I'd done my GCSE's and even earlier, and because there's a solid career path there I've always had my eyes set on where I want to go.

There are soooooo many people who are completely different. They don't know what they want to do, schools don't make enough effort to show the alternatives and then, by the time someone has done their GCSE's, they're looking through uni prospectus' thinking, "oo, that might be a laugh" so they pick something they aren't fully behind and waste a year or two of their lives and a lot of tax payers money. It annoys me that some people show such a disregard for a degree as much as someone who is 30 years older, didn't get the chance to and is now stumping up tax for said people do to degrees.

2 of my very good mates from halls last year both dropped out of first year and are starting a fresh on new courses, one at a different uni. Neither was really that interested in their subject, and they never even tried the course properly, they just rinsed a hell of a lot money and a year playing football manager/getting drunk/getting stoned. One wanted to join the police but they wouldn't take him on as an 18 year old so he attempted a degree in law and criminology. The other just didn't know what to do and ended up doing something about building and estate managment.

I hope they both learn from their mistakes and use the opportunity they have to get a good degree, but only time will tell.

[Foxhateram]

You've hit the nail on the head there, the main reason why so many people go to uni, drop out or get a degree they aren't interested in/ is useless to them is because the alternatives either aren't there or aren't advertised enough.

I was fortunate in that I decided I wanted to do architecture before I'd done my GCSE's and even earlier, and because there's a solid career path there I've always had my eyes set on where I want to go.

There are soooooo many people who are completely different. They don't know what they want to do, schools don't make enough effort to show the alternatives and then, by the time someone has done their GCSE's, they're looking through uni prospectus' thinking, "oo, that might be a laugh" so they pick something they aren't fully behind and waste a year or two of their lives and a lot of tax payers money. It annoys me that some people show such a disregard for a degree as much as someone who is 30 years older, didn't get the chance to and is now stumping up tax for said people do to degrees.

2 of my very good mates from halls last year both dropped out of first year and are starting a fresh on new courses, one at a different uni. Neither was really that interested in their subject, and they never even tried the course properly, they just rinsed a hell of a lot money and a year playing football manager/getting drunk/getting stoned. One wanted to join the police but they wouldn't take him on as an 18 year old so he attempted a degree in law and criminology. The other just didn't know what to do and ended up doing something about building and estate managment.

I hope they both learn from their mistakes and use the opportunity they have to get a good degree, but only time will tell.

You have a lot of good points but what i do not understand is your phrase "Waste tax payers money" What bit about going to university is wasting tax payers money? We might be taking loans from the government but we bloody well pay the price for it! We pay a stupid amount of interest on the loans we have and that accumulates to well over the grant we get and so therefore the "wasting tax payers money" phrase is completely unjustified.

I agree with unit though. Once you are through the first couple of months at uni, it suddenly becomes serious and to be honest its a darn site harder then people make out. Some people manage to get through uni *issing about all the way through, how they manage this i do not know all i can guess is that they have rich dadies.

Through uni you do harder work then you ever did at school, you do not get any support from anyone (you are expected to do it all yourself), they give you very little or no resources and on top of all that you have to work to pay the rent and bills of your home (you are ripped off by student landlords/estate agents) and then probably the worst thing about it all is that you pay £3500 + a year for your course and you struggle to see what that actually pays for. (seems to me, all it pays for is for lecturers who never frickin turn up anyway!)

Overall it equals HUGE debt! A degree that probably everyone has got, and to be honest a qualification that is worth less than experience, therefore you would have been better to just go and find a job that will train you on the job.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Personally I feel that it has been just too easy to get into Uni these days. I see people posting on this forum who say they are students but can't spell or construct a coherent sentence, much less a meaningful argument! Write a thesis?

Not ALL students of course, but far too many for my liking. It's absolutely certain that a proportion of young people move on to higher education just to avoid having to go to work for a few more years.

As for the cost, we'll I left school in the mid-80s. We lived on a council estate, I went to a secondary comprehensive. I passed some of my O-levels at 14. I was smarter than average . But go to uni? I had no chance and neither did most of the people I knew, even some my brighter and better off friends couldn't dream of uni. All this a little over 20 years ago.

Some people don't know they've got it made.

[Tommy G]

Well students have now gone and blown their biggest chance to show the Govt what they are made of.

A minority acted like football hooligans and spoilt it for the majority...It will have just pissed the Govt off. How much money would it have cost to Police such an event? Sums it up really. The Govt should stick that bill onto the inflated tuition fees, dont see why I and other should pay for it.

[Dr The Singh]

Personally I feel that it has been just too easy to get into Uni these days. I see people posting on this forum who say they are students but can't spell or construct a coherent sentence, much less a meaningful argument! Write a thesis?

Not ALL students of course, but far too many for my liking. It's absolutely certain that a proportion of young people move on to higher education just to avoid having to go to work for a few more years.

As for the cost, we'll I left school in the mid-80s. We lived on a council estate, I went to a secondary comprehensive. I passed some of my O-levels at 14. I was smarter than average . But go to uni? I had no chance and neither did most of the people I knew, even some my brighter and better off friends couldn't dream of uni. All this a little over 20 years ago.

Some people don't know they've got it made.

Totally agree, I know people going to uni with 2 e grades!!!

The positives of higher uni fee's may well be that people that really want to study will take the chance, but looking at the youth of today, the debt will not put many off ath thought of getting drunk and pulling loads of pooon at uni!!

Trav, agree on your point about making the most of free education, my dad had 2 jobs while studying at juniors and comprehensive, and had to work during college and uni just so he could afford to pay the fee's.....non of this 8 lectures a week and going on the rass everynight!!

[Trav Le Bleu]

Well students have now gone and blown their biggest chance to show the Govt what they are made of.

A minority acted like football hooligans and spoilt it for the majority...It will have just pissed the Govt off. How much money would it have cost to Police such an event? Sums it up really. The Govt should stick that bill onto the inflated tuition fees, dont see why I and other should pay for it.

That would be brilliant except for your following words are your own argument - why should the many peacefully protesting students pay for the idiots?

I strongly suspect that the ones who caused the most trouble were hardly A* students, but I'm guessing some impressionable youths got swept up with it all.

[Tommy G]

That would be brilliant except for your following words are your own argument - why should the many peacefully protesting students pay for the idiots?

I strongly suspect that the ones who caused the most trouble were hardly A* students, but I'm guessing some impressionable youths got swept up with it all.

At least it will go some way to solving the job crisis. I mean someone will have to put glass in those windows and repair the other damage to buildings.

my brother is at uni and when I ask him about lectures he shrugs and proceeds to tell me about the night before when he went out dressed as a hedgehog. Joke really

[ajthefox]

You have a lot of good points but what i do not understand is your phrase "Waste tax payers money" What bit about going to university is wasting tax payers money? We might be taking loans from the government but we bloody well pay the price for it! We pay a stupid amount of interest on the loans we have and that accumulates to well over the grant we get and so therefore the "wasting tax payers money" phrase is completely unjustified.

I agree with unit though. Once you are through the first couple of months at uni, it suddenly becomes serious and to be honest its a darn site harder then people make out. Some people manage to get through uni *issing about all the way through, how they manage this i do not know all i can guess is that they have rich dadies.

Through uni you do harder work then you ever did at school, you do not get any support from anyone (you are expected to do it all yourself), they give you very little or no resources and on top of all that you have to work to pay the rent and bills of your home (you are ripped off by student landlords/estate agents) and then probably the worst thing about it all is that you pay £3500 + a year for your course and you struggle to see what that actually pays for. (seems to me, all it pays for is for lecturers who never frickin turn up anyway!)

Overall it equals HUGE debt! A degree that probably everyone has got, and to be honest a qualification that is worth less than experience, therefore you would have been better to just go and find a job that will train you on the job.

As it stands at the minute, we pay a fee of £3250 or whatever it is. The cost of the degree is a lot higher, hence why the fees are possibly tripling to £9,000, as there is nearly £6000 of funding from the government, which is what they want to cut. I know we're going to end up paying more than what we originally owe, but interested is only at the rate of inflation if memory serves an even if it is more, it does not equate to the funding from the government.

I wasn't refering to everyone of course because many will get jobs and contribute to the economy, but those who waste their time on meaningless degrees or piss about then drop out are wasting governemt funding, or as I put it, tax payers money.

[Dickie Greenleaf]

I thoroughly agree that too many people go to uni and this has unfairly turned too many jobs into fake 'graduate careers', taking work away from people who traditionally wouldnt go to university.

However its naiive and unfair to say that the (majority of) protestors are slefish etc, as they are protesting against changes that wont actually affect them, but rather future students. As for the blanket 'I fooking hate students blah blah blah' brigade, I imagine you'd really benefit from living in a country without Doctors, engineers, architects, legal support and advice, scientists, mathematicians, linguists, IT nerds etc (not to mention the benefits that a degree in arts and humanities/ social sciences can offer)

[Foxhateram]

As it stands at the minute, we pay a fee of £3250 or whatever it is. The cost of the degree is a lot higher, hence why the fees are possibly tripling to £9,000, as there is nearly £6000 of funding from the government, which is what they want to cut. I know we're going to end up paying more than what we originally owe, but interested is only at the rate of inflation if memory serves an even if it is more, it does not equate to the funding from the government.

I wasn't refering to everyone of course because many will get jobs and contribute to the economy, but those who waste their time on meaningless degrees or piss about then drop out are wasting governemt funding, or as I put it, tax payers money.

Fair enough. Do not see how the cost of a degree is so high to be honest, but i guess that is a figure that the govt have fed the media and we have to believe it.

Agree with people in the respect that some students seem to just be here to get trollied and pick up "poon", it is those who let down the rest of us and give us a terrible stereotype.

[ajthefox]

I don't know how it's that high either, but one of my tutors told me that my degree in architecture costs even more than that or the uni because we have a minimum amount of hours contact with tutors per week and our own studios with drawings boards and computers with specialist software so I guess in some cases it mounts up.

[Dr The Singh]

Fair enough. Do not see how the cost of a degree is so high to be honest, but i guess that is a figure that the govt have fed the media and we have to believe it.

Agree with people in the respect that some students seem to just be here to get trollied and pick up "poon", it is those who let down the rest of us and give us a terrible stereotype.

Degrees in sciences involve alot more hours, lab sessions, and expensive equipment!!! Hence why so many uni's are shutting down physic and chmistry departments, due to the upkeep relative to the demand!!

[dave the caveman]

Personally I feel that it has been just too easy to get into Uni these days. I see people posting on this forum who say they are students but can't spell or construct a coherent sentence, much less a meaningful argument! Write a thesis?

Not ALL students of course, but far too many for my liking. It's absolutely certain that a proportion of young people move on to higher education just to avoid having to go to work for a few more years.

As for the cost, we'll I left school in the mid-80s. We lived on a council estate, I went to a secondary comprehensive. I passed some of my O-levels at 14. I was smarter than average . But go to uni? I had no chance and neither did most of the people I knew, even some my brighter and better off friends couldn't dream of uni. All this a little over 20 years ago.

Some people don't know they've got it made.

Agree with your first two paragraphs but the 2nd two are short sighted to say the least. You didn't go to uni because you didn't need to. Two years in a polytech and you could enter a skilled profession. Can you do that nowadays? Not a chance!! Nowadays you NEED to go through further education to get to the same level as you used to be able to get to from the equivalent of todays A-Levels.

As it stands at the minute, we pay a fee of £3250 or whatever it is. The cost of the degree is a lot higher, hence why the fees are possibly tripling to £9,000, as there is nearly £6000 of funding from the government, which is what they want to cut. I know we're going to end up paying more than what we originally owe, but interested is only at the rate of inflation if memory serves an even if it is more, it does not equate to the funding from the government.

One of the less reported changes is the increase in interest rates to inflation + 2%. The new system will mean average debts are approx £30k. Assuming an average rate of inflation of 3%, that means 5% will be compounded onto the debt every year until the graduate finds a job that pays over the £21k threshold. The reason for increasing that threshold, although packaged by the government as a positive, is actually to allow the debt to grow as much as possible.

If you work out the mathematics of this and take into account average graduate salaries and the way student loans are repayed, you'll see that to pay off the interest on the debt ALONE, a graduate will have to earn £40k per year, which is very unrealistic, and the longer his salary falls below that level, the higher the target becomes. Essentially it's designed to trap kids into a lifelong debt. It basically puts 9% on the future income tax of whatever percentage of people still go to uni.

And just as the icing on the cake, even if you want to pay it back early, the government WON'T LET YOU! You will be forced to pay back the interest you would have paid as well! It's truly incredible stuff. Truly disturbing.

The only people who can escape are those who don't need the loan, which by raising the fees so high, the tories have made sure only applies to their chums down at the golf club.

[Dickie Greenleaf]

^ This man speaks sense

[Foxhateram]

Agree with your first two paragraphs but the 2nd two are short sighted to say the least. You didn't go to uni because you didn't need to. Two years in a polytech and you could enter a skilled profession. Can you do that nowadays? Not a chance!! Nowadays you NEED to go through further education to get to the same level as you used to be able to get to from the equivalent of todays A-Levels.

One of the less reported changes is the increase in interest rates to inflation + 2%. The new system will mean average debts are approx £30k. Assuming an average rate of inflation of 3%, that means 5% will be compounded onto the debt every year until the graduate finds a job that pays over the £21k threshold. The reason for increasing that threshold, although packaged by the government as a positive, is actually to allow the debt to grow as much as possible.

If you work out the mathematics of this and take into account average graduate salaries and the way student loans are repayed, you'll see that to pay off the interest on the debt ALONE, a graduate will have to earn £40k per year, which is very unrealistic, and the longer his salary falls below that level, the higher the target becomes. Essentially it's designed to trap kids into a lifelong debt. It basically puts 9% on the future income tax of whatever percentage of people still go to uni.

And just as the icing on the cake, even if you want to pay it back early, the government WON'T LET YOU! You will be forced to pay back the interest you would have paid as well! It's truly incredible stuff. Truly disturbing.

The only people who can escape are those who don't need the loan, which by raising the fees so high, the tories have made sure only applies to their chums down at the golf club.

You are so right! You are much better at explaining things then me.

[Guest]

Why are so many so eager to go to Uni? With more students than ever staying on post-18, it's getting harder than ever for graduates to find work. Going to Uni at 18 is an experience many have taken a lot from, for good or bad. But it's not the be all and end all.

Having said that, what a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that the most deprived students will still be able to get financial support from elsewhere, that the amount that you will need to be earning before paying back is increasing (meaning, in theory, it'll be easier to never have to pay the loan off), and that the fee increase is to a maximum of £9,000pa - this does not mean that all institutions will be charging, or will be able to justify, such high fees. There will still be affordable university education out there, it just won't be Oxbridge or Red Brick.

If you want to beat the system, play them at it. Wait until you're 21. Go out, travel the world, work, get some life experience. Go to Uni having saved up a good proportion or your course fees/living expenses in advance. If you're lucky enough, your chosen degree might be available to study part-time, in which case you can carry on working whilst studying, AND the fees are a lot lower (my degree cost me £3,210 over 4 years). If the demand for Uni places isn't there, then they can't charge top whack for their courses.

[Jon the Hat]

Agree with your first two paragraphs but the 2nd two are short sighted to say the least. You didn't go to uni because you didn't need to. Two years in a polytech and you could enter a skilled profession. Can you do that nowadays? Not a chance!! Nowadays you NEED to go through further education to get to the same level as you used to be able to get to from the equivalent of todays A-Levels.

One of the less reported changes is the increase in interest rates to inflation + 2%. The new system will mean average debts are approx £30k. Assuming an average rate of inflation of 3%, that means 5% will be compounded onto the debt every year until the graduate finds a job that pays over the £21k threshold. The reason for increasing that threshold, although packaged by the government as a positive, is actually to allow the debt to grow as much as possible.

If you work out the mathematics of this and take into account average graduate salaries and the way student loans are repayed, you'll see that to pay off the interest on the debt ALONE, a graduate will have to earn £40k per year, which is very unrealistic, and the longer his salary falls below that level, the higher the target becomes. Essentially it's designed to trap kids into a lifelong debt. It basically puts 9% on the future income tax of whatever percentage of people still go to uni.

And just as the icing on the cake, even if you want to pay it back early, the government WON'T LET YOU! You will be forced to pay back the interest you would have paid as well! It's truly incredible stuff. Truly disturbing.

The only people who can escape are those who don't need the loan, which by raising the fees so high, the tories have made sure only applies to their chums down at the golf club.

What a fooking load of old shit. You started so well, but quickly turned to ill informed claptrap.

Student loans at the moment are subsidised, becuase no one - even the government - can borrow money at the cost of inflation, or as people who understand the concept of inflation call it "free". 2% over inflation is an approximation of the cost of the government borrowings which will fund student debt. It is way less than an individual could borrow for.

The purpose of increasing the repayment threshold is not to increase in the interest payable - see above. No one is making any money on the lending.

I would like to see your sources for the assertion that you will not be able to repay your debts early. This would in fact be illegal, as anyone has the right to repay their debts at anytime, subject to some contractual penalties.

When will you fools stop pedalling the idea that all uni courses will cost £9k? Or even £6k for that matter. No one is going to pay that to do a media course in Stoke are they. FFS use your brains.

[Dr The Singh]

What a fooking load of old shit.

Tell us fooking why???

PS - Ur so sexy when you swear, snuggle chumps!!