Jimmy Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 On another forum a thread asking people to name the best XI to have come through the academy in the past decade, I set myself a limit of at least 20 games and the only players I could include for us where Logan Stearman Heath Sheehan MattockGradel King ? ?O'Grady ? and that's it so 2 things came to mind, have I missed anyone? and more importantly, why do people constantly harp on about how good our academy is when its main purpose is to provide players for the 1st team, when you compare our list to the list the likes of Southampton and Middlesbrough can put up it truly does show how bad our set up is in that respect and its something Sven and the likes of Jon Rudkin really need to change IMO, for those interested the thread can be found here. So can anyone help with point 1 and your opinions on my second point?
The Doctor Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 our academy side is quite good - they do well in the academy league but it is worrying they don't break through into the first team. The lack of a reserve team doesn't help but surely if they are good enough they should break through anyway. However the managers of recent years have never shown faith in the youth - adams signed several old players rather than bringing the youngsters through, levein focused more on signing players he knew about from his time with hearts and some youngsters from other clubs, kelly just looked to work with leveins squad, allen signed everyone he could, megson wasn't here long enough to do anything (though he did give king a breakththrough), Holloway signed experience - fairly reasonable decision rather than throwing youngsters into a relegation battle, Pearson prefered experience - witness his shunning of porter and gradel amongst others, Sousa put them on the bench but never played them while sven has been working on the same premise as holloway - bring in experience and get the team moving upwards again. also porter on the other wing, wright upfront?
Jimmy Posted 25 January 2011 Author Posted 25 January 2011 I'd forgotten about Levi so cheers for reminding me, but still short of 2 players
The Doctor Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 I'd forgotten about Levi so cheers for reminding me, but still short of 2 players wesolowski centre mid? not really had many fowards come through in the past decade though.
Jimmy Posted 25 January 2011 Author Posted 25 January 2011 still totally pathetic, its not like loads have left and gone on to succeed elsewhere either
Raj Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 Id say the academy is an integral part of the Club. Even if only one player makes it thro the ranks in a season or so its better than paying a club £££ Plus it gives the club a sense of pride that one has achieved its goal in building a player from youth all the way up to first team. Good on em!
Christoph Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 Really dont understand why we dont have a reserve team tbh
Haydos Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 Really dont understand why we dont have a reserve team tbh Heard it was to cut expenditure/seen as not integral. I'm sure we will next season if Sven and the Thai's stick around.
DanTheFox07 Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 I was thinking this other day, but king is the only player who has come through to get into the first team apart from the likes of wesoloski and O grady who have now moved on. There is a lot of talk about players who will be good in future, but which is the closest one to the first team schlupp? I also think parkes might be one to watch. Regardless of this our academy isn`t a patch on the likes of southampton and west ham`s
Edmund Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 Logan Stearman Heath Sheehan MattockGradel King ? ?O'Grady ? The scary thing is that if Thracians manager application had of been successful, this would be our current starting line up with Porter, Chambers and Kee filling the other positions. Maybe move Sheehan to left back and swap Mattock with Heskey at CB and it would be about spot on
RobHawk Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 Heskey?? Joachim?? Lineker? Hows that for strikers through the youth team? and peter Shilton came through the youth team!! depends how far back you want to go!! Also Eric Odhiambo and Lee Cox are doing quite well for themselves up in the SPL for cally thistle.
hackneyfox Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 Id say the academy is an integral part of the Club. Even if only one player makes it thro the ranks in a season or so its better than paying a club £££ Plus it gives the club a sense of pride that one has achieved its goal in building a player from youth all the way up to first team. Good on em! If only 1 player a season would make it through. It's about 1 every 4 seasons isn't it. At best
lcfcsnow Posted 25 January 2011 Posted 25 January 2011 Jordan Stewart looked promising, couldn't decide if he wanted to be a left back or winger though.
MPH Posted 26 January 2011 Posted 26 January 2011 The scary thing is that if Thracians manager application had of been successful, this would be our current starting line up with Porter, Chambers and Kee filling the other positions. Maybe move Sheehan to left back and swap Mattock with Heskey at CB and it would be about spot on Please tell me he didn't actually apply......
puff Posted 27 January 2011 Posted 27 January 2011 On another forum a thread asking people to name the best XI to have come through the academy in the past decade, I set myself a limit of at least 20 games and the only players I could include for us where Logan Stearman Heath Sheehan MattockGradel King ? ?O'Grady ? and that's it so 2 things came to mind, have I missed anyone? and more importantly, why do people constantly harp on about how good our academy is when its main purpose is to provide players for the 1st team, when you compare our list to the list the likes of Southampton and Middlesbrough can put up it truly does show how bad our set up is in that respect and its something Sven and the likes of Jon Rudkin really need to change IMO, for those interested the thread can be found here. So can anyone help with point 1 and your opinions on my second point? In the last 10 years, all the folowing have come up through the academy and have either played for the city, or have been on the bench, including :- Conrad logan Joe Mattock, Richard Stearman, Damien Delaney, Alan Sheehan, Matt Heath, Jordon Stewart Andy King, Steve Dawson, James Wesolowski, Max Gradel Matt Piper Chris O'Grady Others I can think of include, Tommy Wright Leon McSweeney and Tomi Petrescue I believe nearly all are still playing as pros. What is a bit of a concern is that since Alan Hill was sacked as Academy Director, about 5 or 6 years ago, not a lot have come through since then. Alan was one of Brian Cloughs backroom staff and was very knowledgable, as weel as being a good bloke to work for. Ex players to come through, include Peter Shilton Simon Morgan, Richard Smith, David Nish, Steve Whitworth Julian Joachim, Graham Cross Alan Woollett, HowardRiley Gary Lineker, Emile Heskey
hackneyfox Posted 27 January 2011 Posted 27 January 2011 So about 5 reasonable players in 10 years, not a great return is it.
Al-aLondon-Foxile Posted 27 January 2011 Posted 27 January 2011 The pressure on managers to get results is huge, and in my opinion is increasingly preventing them from giving young talent the opportunity to realise their potential at a higher level. There is so much money in the game that it is seen as the way forward to buy success. Fans and owners invariably lose patience at the higher level. Back in the day there were teams like Liverpool that brought youngster thru. Man Utd were the last to do it when Hansen said you don't win anything with kids. It is possible, but takes guts and confidence from the owners to manage this policy. Whilst our academy may be good, without regulat reserve team and only occasional friendly games to play in the youngsters have little chance to come thru. I'm sure we all would love to see local lads 'make good' but in practise I think it's very unlikely now at our club. The money we have will ensure we can buy proven talent, and not await the outcome of potential.
Foxhateram Posted 27 January 2011 Posted 27 January 2011 The pressure on managers to get results is huge, and in my opinion is increasingly preventing them from giving young talent the opportunity to realise their potential at a higher level. There is so much money in the game that it is seen as the way forward to buy success. Fans and owners invariably lose patience at the higher level. Back in the day there were teams like Liverpool that brought youngster thru. Man Utd were the last to do it when Hansen said you don't win anything with kids. It is possible, but takes guts and confidence from the owners to manage this policy. Whilst our academy may be good, without regulat reserve team and only occasional friendly games to play in the youngsters have little chance to come thru. I'm sure we all would love to see local lads 'make good' but in practise I think it's very unlikely now at our club. The money we have will ensure we can buy proven talent, and not await the outcome of potential. Pearson gave luke o'niel a run out on quite a few occasions and was the only manager to give kingy a consistent run in the team. Most players seem to go elsewhere and do ok in the lower leagues but never go any further i.e. o'grady and Dodds. This, as the person i have quoted has already stated, is due to the money in football the temptation to buy 'proven' talent appears to grab all managers now. The most worrying thing is that it is happening right down to the bottom levels of football and even in youth football these days. Managers seem to buy in players from other clubs rather than bringing through their talent, then the reserve team gets used as the dumping ground for the first team when they dont have a game, which further decreases the chances of youngsters making it. Even at youth level some teams are paying money to transfer in players for cup finals. In my area a team was punished for it, but they bought a player from a north devon team and claimed that they were a player who was already registered for the club. It is rumored that the team payed £50 for that players services for that one match. Crazy!
Thracian Posted 27 January 2011 Posted 27 January 2011 In the last 10 years, all the folowing have come up through the academy and have either played for the city, or have been on the bench, including :- Conrad logan Joe Mattock, Richard Stearman, Damien Delaney, Alan Sheehan, Matt Heath, Jordon Stewart Andy King, Steve Dawson, James Wesolowski, Max Gradel Matt Piper Chris O'Grady Others I can think of include, Tommy Wright Leon McSweeney and Tomi Petrescue I believe nearly all are still playing as pros. What is a bit of a concern is that since Alan Hill was sacked as Academy Director, about 5 or 6 years ago, not a lot have come through since then. Alan was one of Brian Cloughs backroom staff and was very knowledgable, as weel as being a good bloke to work for. Not sure if they ever got on our bench but two others playing league football are Billy McKay (Northampton) and Louis Dodds (Port Vale). Ex players to come through, include Peter Shilton Simon Morgan, Richard Smith, David Nish, Steve Whitworth Julian Joachim, Graham Cross Alan Woollett, HowardRiley Gary Lineker, Emile Heskey
B52 Posted 27 January 2011 Posted 27 January 2011 Man Utd were the last to do it when Hansen said you don't win anything with kids. It is possible, but takes guts and confidence from the owners to manage this policy. Man City has 8 players from the academy still in first team........ Maybe not so often in the first 11.
Greg2607 Posted 27 January 2011 Posted 27 January 2011 But the reality here is that not every player WILL make it, when you look to the upper echelons of the premier league, how many players in the top 4's academy have broken through to end up playing REGULARLY in the first 11? take Liverpool as an example, are the most recent two that have gone on to any level of success Gerrard and Carragher? How about Man Utd?, Chelsea? Ok, I accept that these clubs operate in a different sphere to Leicester, and yes, maybe we SHOULD have been trying to blood our youngsters more readily, however, with the managerial change that we have endured since Martin O'neil left, how on earth could we have produced talent that would fit into the first team? each manager that came on board had a need for immediate results and each bought a different philosphy on how the game should be played. Surely, one of sways to develop talent that will eventually go through and progress to the first team is to ensure a consistent message, a consistent style of play, consistent "footballing beliefs". We haven't even been able to do that with the first team. So no, our academy ISN'T rubbish, we produce players that gain honours at international level (both junior and full hounours), we produce players who have gone on to enjoy professional footballing careers. It is unrealistic to think we will produce 10 "emile heskeys" or "andy kings"...... Name a team that has done this Consistently AND achieved major success.......you wont.
hackneyfox Posted 27 January 2011 Posted 27 January 2011 Man U have of course had Ferguson at the helm for years but the academies are meant to be run without outside influence from the current manager aren't they, that's the point of having their own manager/director
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