Animal rights

[The Doctor]

Can you name a more evolved animal?

I guess it depends on your definition of evolved, for example an animal with a very short lifespan and high reproduction and willingness to mate with family evolves more times than humans, but we have evolved to be the most advanced in terms of brain power and capacity to think and reason and override our instincts with logic, of all known species.

You can't scale animals from best evolved to worst evolved, it's a gross misunderstanding of evolution. Evolution does not produce superior organisms, it produces organisms better suited to their environment. We aren't superior to any other animals, and yet we are - in our brain-power and our ability to learn and solve problems. However

compared to the likes of a Hawk, a shark, a dolphin or a bat or numerous other animals, we are pathetically feeble with our senses.

It is impossible to say we're the most highly evolved animal - we're the most highly evolved animal of the homo genus, by dint of being the only surviving member of that genus, however we are not the most highly evolved animal - none are.

[MooseBreath]

That's a shame. I would like to kill, cook and eat the most evolved animal with some teriyaki sauce, just to assert my authority over the juicy little bitch

[Carl the Llama]

I'm guessing you were trying to prove a point about recent inhumane behaviour towards animals with that video, but instead you've given me a bit more faith in mankind.

The end of the video tells us that this practice is straight up illegal in all 27 EU member states, that includes the UK. In fact it even points out how appalling the US perceive it and states that it's on its way out there too. Happy days.

[Manwell Pablo]

Oz has answered honestly, and played my little hypothetical game, why can't you? It is perfectly plausible that we could develop a medically safe vegetarian milk formula.

The point I'm trying to make is that you would both probably agree to the same thing if you had the same information, Oz would never knowingly harm his children or anyone through forcing strict vegan principles on them, if the only alternative is a meat based product then he would take it, he has stated that before, but in this world we have managed to replace the majority of animal based products with synthetic and vegetable based alternatives.

If you say that some of these products aren't safe then you have to question why companies are allowed to make them and promote them to people like Oz and encourage them to risk the health and safety of themselves and their family, and not berate Oz for believing that a product made and sold as a baby formula is safe. Likewise Oz should not berate you for believing Cow's milk is a safe alternative to breast milk, when he says that it is not safe.

If people are endangering human lives by selling unfit for purpose baby formula, or encouraging mothers to feed their babies cow's milk when it is not safe, then that is a much greater issue than point scoring on an internet forum.

I have, read. I said I would stick with my opnion, despite the fact that I don't support any of his arguements around meat or anything else there are still other more important issues ( like the flu example, another unanswered question)

And it's not safe, even the most hardened Vegan would have to admit it can deform and kill and number of children especially those born with problems or even the millions born prematurely every year, who funnily enough are normally the babys that have the most trouble breast feeding.

Fourth time of asking Oz, as I have noticed you are doing your best to dodge the quesion, if as you say you support human life over animal rights you are in favour of us breeding cattle for milk then?

[ozleicester]

I have, read. I said I would stick with my opnion, despite the fact that I don't support any of his arguements around meat or anything else there are still other more important issues ( like the flu example, another unanswered question)

And it's not safe, even the most hardened Vegan would have to admit it can deform and kill and number of children especially those born with problems or even the millions born prematurely every year, who funnily enough are normally the babys that have the most trouble breast feeding.

Fourth time of asking Oz, as I have noticed you are doing your best to dodge the quesion, if as you say you support human life over animal rights you are in favour of us breeding cattle for milk then?

Ill answer AGAIN... Flu, we can develop alternative testing/development, we just dont want to spend the money, therefore it suggests that money/ human pleasure is more important than animals lives, i disagree with this and believe we should spend the money needed to develop alternative treatments,

By the way, most Flu vaccines are a waste of your time and money as most strains of the Flu are not covered, they guess/research which flu strains are likely and cover that one and a couple of similar ones..of course, the flu changes and the vaccine is rendered useless....and the ill treatment of animals and your money and time was wasted. http://chemistry.abo...a/aa011604a.htm

Even the most vocal mouthpiece and easily led, would have to admit that cows milk can kill and seriously harm some babies and children and is in general not good for humans.

Alternatives to cows milk/formula's are available and more could be developed if we were prepared to invest. so i support the use of alternatives where available, and i support the gradual replacement of animal based products with cruelty free alternatives.

Now i have answered your questions...all of them,.... you are welcome to disagree, but im not going to continually repeat myself. If you wish to ask new questions im happy to discuss

AGAIN...

This is not a "line in the sand" situation, its not a case of on the 1st of Feb, its all outlawed, its a progression toward ending the cruelty and respecting that an animals life is more important than money or human pleasure.

[Guest MattP]

Just about to wat a beef in yorkshire here, can I have a video of some cows being mistreated to make it complete?

[Jimothy]

Ill answer AGAIN... Flu, we can develop alternative testing/development, we just dont want to spend the money, therefore it suggests that money/ human pleasure is more important than animals lives, i disagree with this and believe we should spend the money needed to develop alternative treatments,

By the way, most Flu vaccines are a waste of your time and money as most strains of the Flu are not covered, they guess/research which flu strains are likely and cover that one and a couple of similar ones..of course, the flu changes and the vaccine is rendered useless....and the ill treatment of animals and your money and time was wasted. http://chemistry.abo...a/aa011604a.htm

Even the most vocal mouthpiece and easily led, would have to admit that cows milk can kill and seriously harm some babies and children and is in general not good for humans.

Alternatives to cows milk/formula's are available and more could be developed if we were prepared to invest. so i support the use of alternatives where available, and i support the gradual replacement of animal based products with cruelty free alternatives.

Now i have answered your questions...all of them,.... you are welcome to disagree, but im not going to continually repeat myself. If you wish to ask new questions im happy to discuss

AGAIN...

This is not a "line in the sand" situation, its not a case of on the 1st of Feb, its all outlawed, its a progression toward ending the cruelty and respecting that an animals life is more important than money or human pleasure.

Just one question. Your catch phrases seem to be "There are replacements" and "There are alternatives". What exactly are these replacements/alternatives? Because you never seem to actually mention what they are, just that they exist.

[ozleicester]

Just one question. Your catch phrases seem to be "There are replacements" and "There are alternatives". What exactly are these replacements/alternatives? Because you never seem to actually mention what they are, just that they exist.

Which specific things would you like alternatives for?

Food? ... http://www.chooseveg.com/vegan-substitutes.asp

[Guest MattP]

Which specific things would you like alternatives for?

A T-Bone Steak.

[leicsmac]

Just about to wat a beef in yorkshire here, can I have a video of some cows being mistreated to make it complete?

You, sir, are a twisted human being.

[Zingari]

You, sir, are a twisted human being.

hmm , are they anything like KFC chicken twisters ?

[leicsmac]

hmm , are they anything like KFC chicken twisters ?

Little bit gamier, little bit stringier.

[Manwell Pablo]

Which specific things would you like alternatives for?

Food? ... http://www.chooseveg...substitutes.asp

Ah your faviourate subject.

AGAIN, your arguement is basically = something will come up, we'll develop something, it's not that easy, we can't just decide to invent something otherwise we'd have a cure for cancer by now. I'm aware Cows milk can be bad for children please stop saying that, it can be good for some however, I'd say the same of Soy milk in certain situations, however in this world people can pick the best product for their baby, in your world, their stuck with one choice and that one choice could cause severe problems or possibly in some cases be fatal, especially to premature babys, who are often the ones who struggle to breast feed, medical fact. Just for the sake of a few cows being fed and looked after.

But as it seems your answer is you believe in a fictional make believe safe Soy Milk product that is yet to be invented sort of sums up you and your whole arguement nicely which as we are going round in circles I'll ask you another question. In an already economically struggling world do you not think the trillions of pounds that would need to be invested into researching, developing, and implementing replacements for aninimal dependant products over decades could be better spent on the research of cures for disease killing millions world wide such as cancer and AIDS.

[Captain...]

Ah your faviourate subject.

AGAIN, your arguement is basically = something will come up, we'll develop something, it's not that easy, we can't just decide to invent something otherwise we'd have a cure for cancer by now. I'm aware Cows milk can be bad for children please stop saying that, it can be good for some however, I'd say the same of Soy milk in certain situations, however in this world people can pick the best product for their baby, in your world, their stuck with one choice and that one choice could cause severe problems or possibly in some cases be fatal, especially to premature babys, who are often the ones who struggle to breast feed, medical fact. Just for the sake of a few cows being fed and looked after.

But as it seems your answer is you believe in a fictional make believe safe Soy Milk product that is yet to be invented sort of sums up you and your whole arguement nicely which as we are going round in circles I'll ask you another question. In an already economically struggling world do you not think the trillions of pounds that would need to be invested into researching, developing, and implementing replacements for aninimal dependant products over decades could be better spent on the research of cures for disease killing millions world wide such as cancer and AIDS.

Well considering a lot of cancer is caused by Obesity and dietary issues, too much Salt and Red Meat, not enough fruit and Veg and Fibre, then surely exploring meat free alternatives will aid in our battle against Cancer.

[Manwell Pablo]

Well considering a lot of cancer is caused by Obesity and dietary issues, too much Salt and Red Meat, not enough fruit and Veg and Fibre, then surely exploring meat free alternatives will aid in our battle against Cancer.

There is a direct link between veganism and colon cancer.

[Zingari]

There is a direct link between veganism and colon cancer.

Vegans have a lower risk of colon cancer don't they ?

[Manwell Pablo]

Vegans have a lower risk of colon cancer don't they ?

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/142427.php

[Captain...]

http://www.medicalne...cles/142427.php

Not necessarily diet related, could be because they spend so much time talking out of their arse...

[Manwell Pablo]

Not necessarily diet related, could be because they spend so much time talking out of their arse...

You should put that to the researchers think I you're on to something .

[Guest MattP]

Who cares anyway?

I'd rather take my chances with a higher risk of cancer than actually become a veggie.

To do the opposite would be like spending a weekend wanking at the playboy mansion because you are scared of catching the clap.

[James.]

Who cares anyway?

I'd rather take my chances with a higher risk of cancer than actually become a veggie.

To do the opposite would be like spending a weekend wanking at the playboy mansion because you are scared of catching the clap.

That'd still be a pretty good weekend though. Certainly better than spending it not eating meat.

[Manwell Pablo]

Who cares anyway?

I'd rather take my chances with a higher risk of cancer than actually become a veggie.

To do the opposite would be like spending a weekend wanking at the playboy mansion because you are scared of catching the clap.

Think I'd rather have a higher risk of any other cancer than have a higher risk of having arse cancer.

Give me a steak and a stroke any day of the week over that shit.

[ozleicester]

There is a direct link between veganism and colon cancer.

Even the article you quoted shows that Veggies are healthier and less at risk of cancer than non veggies

If you were (as you imply) actually concerned about the health and well being of the worlds population, then you have no alternative but to support a veggie lifestyle.

A vast array of studies from top universities and independent researchers has found that eating the flesh of chickens, cows, and other animals promotes cancer. Here are a few:

• One study compared cancer rates of vegetarians and meat-eaters in 34,000 Americans. The results showed that those who avoided meat, fish, and poultry had dramatically lower rates of prostate, ovarian, and colon cancer compared to meat-eaters.
  
• An 11-year-long German study involving more than 800 vegetarian men found that their cancer rates were less than half those of the general public. The lowest cancer rates were found in those who had avoided meat for 20 years or more.
  
• A 2007 study of more than 35,000 women published in the British Journal of Cancer found that women who ate the most meat had the highest risk of breast cancer.
  
• A study comparing the dietary habits of men in 32 countries found that the highest risk factors for prostate cancer mortality were meat and dairy products. By contrast, another study of men diagnosed with prostate cancer showed that a diet rich in fruits, vegetables, and grains can slow or even halt the progression of the disease.
  
• Scientists from the Bremen Institute for Prevention, Research, and Social Medicine and theGerman Cancer Research Center observed in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that "the relationship between a vegetarian and fiber-rich diet and a decreased risk for colon cancer has been reported in many studies."
  

Dr. T. Colin Campbell, arguably the foremost epidemiological researcher alive today, believes that animal proteins are the prime carcinogen in meat and dairy products. He points out that "human studies also support this carcinogenic effect of animal protein, even at usual levels of consumption. … No chemical carcinogen is nearly so important in causing human cancer as animal protein."

And should we even start with climate change? which if it continues could (reports suggest) see the deaths of up to 100 MILLION people by the year 2030. If you want to save millions from dying, then a veggie lifestyle is something you can actually do...as opposed to guessing which virus is going to strike next and then trying to guess how to prevent it....

London, 5 June 2012 – A paper by WPF scientists published in the International Journal of Climate Change states that by addressing the largest source of shorter-lived climate forcers, livestock production, can help limit global warming to under 2 degrees Celsius. Reducing livestock production and returning pastures to native forests, woodlands and grasslands is the most affordable and effective means of achieving this goal.

“Shorter Lived Climate Forcers: Agriculture Sector and Land Clearing for Livestock†expands on a June 2011 report released by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) titled “Integrated Assessment of Black Carbon and Tropospheric Ozone.â€

Of course i have only mentioned the potential death of millions due to climate change, perhaps i should mention the climate change refugees. Those people who are up in arms about the number of immigrants now, have really got a shock coming their way, when millions of climate change refugees come in search of places they can survive.

so in summation,

If you want to, reduce cancer, live a longer healthier life - Go Veg

If you want to reduce the number of refugees - Go Veg

If you want to prevent the unnecessary death of millions - Go Veg

Oh and if you want to reduce animal cruelty - Go Veg

[Guest MattP]

so in summation,

If you want to, reduce cancer, live a longer healthier life - Go Veg

If you want to reduce the number of refugees - Go Veg

If you want to prevent the unnecessary death of millions - Go Veg

Oh and if you want to reduce animal cruelty - Go Veg

and if you want to eat really nice food and not look like a stick - don't.

[lavrentis]

MEAT = TESTOSTERONE

LEMME HEAR YOUR WAR CRY