ozleicester Posted 31 January 2013 Author Posted 31 January 2013 Vegetarians 'cut heart risk by 32%' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21258509 Ditching meat and fish in favour of a vegetarian diet can have a dramatic effect on the health of your heart, research suggests. A study of 44,500 people in England and Scotland showed vegetarians were 32% less likely to die or need hospital treatment as a result of heart disease. Differences in cholesterol levels, blood pressure and body weight are thought to be behind the health boost. The findings were published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition Here's a report from the BMJ. Not much difference for cancers I'm afraid. Though veggies gain an extra 8 years on average at the end of their lives. As we'll all be decrepit at that age anyways, I'll stick to my regular balanced meat and veg diet. Heart disease generally isn't caused by the actual meat, but primarily by the way it's processed or cooked. 32%... that really is a huge figure...i think i heard recently about warning for fizzy drinks etc... i cant imagine they are as damaging as meat? Do keep in mind our overall decrepit-ness will also be less as a result of a healthier diet. An interesting little piece on animal intelligence can be found here I am beginning to think the only barrier to eating something, is its ability to communicate, i wonder if my sprout or your pig were to have a conversation prior to chopping and chewing... would we be comfortable eating them? Oh, and yes i know that the lord Douglas Adams has already addressed the issue....
OzFox Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 Here's a report from the BMJ. Not much difference for cancers I'm afraid. Though veggies gain an extra 8 years on average at the end of their lives. As we'll all be decrepit at that age anyways, I'll stick to my regular balanced meat and veg diet. Heart disease generally isn't caused by the actual meat, but primarily by the way it's processed or cooked. Suppose it depends on whether you want to live fast and die young(er), or end up in an old people's home propped up by medical science. Having just spent the weekend in one watching a relative fall part at the seams, I think I'll choose the former.
sphericalfox Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 Suppose it depends on whether you want to live fast and die young(er), or end up in an old people's home propped up by medical science. Having just spent the weekend in one watching a relative fall part at the seams, I think I'll choose the former. You do realise old vegans/veggies go into homes too don't you? They also suffer the same indignities of old age regardless of whether they looked at a yummy steak in their lives. No disrespect to your relative, or yourself, but if you have kids and you get to that age, there's a very high possibility that regardless of your diet you'll be falling apart at the seams in a home. For me it's nothing more than guilty conscience. Whether an animal is killed humanely or not, it comes down to guilt. Coping with the fact that another animal has to die to feed you. Everything else is bullshite. Some peoples tolerance of guilt is higher than others in certain areas.
OzFox Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 You do realise old vegans/veggies go into homes too don't you? They also suffer the same indignities of old age regardless of whether they looked at a yummy steak in their lives. No disrespect to your relative, or yourself, but if you have kids and you get to that age, there's a very high possibility that regardless of your diet you'll be falling apart at the seams in a home. For me it's nothing more than guilty conscience. Whether an animal is killed humanely or not, it comes down to guilt. Coping with the fact that another animal has to die to feed you. Everything else is bullshite. Some peoples tolerance of guilt is higher than others in certain areas. That was my point. That if the research is to be believed and you follow a veggie diet, you're arguably more likely to live longer and end up falling apart in a home. Not my idea of fun, so if there's any prospect of me ending up like that I'll be hitting the MattP diet and hoping for the worst
Manwell Pablo Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 32%... that really is a huge figure...i think i heard recently about warning for fizzy drinks etc... i cant imagine they are as damaging as meat? Do keep in mind our overall decrepit-ness will also be less as a result of a healthier diet. An interesting little piece on animal intelligence can be found here I am beginning to think the only barrier to eating something, is its ability to communicate, i wonder if my sprout or your pig were to have a conversation prior to chopping and chewing... would we be comfortable eating them? Oh, and yes i know that the lord Douglas Adams has already addressed the issue....
Captain... Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 For me it's nothing more than guilty conscience. Whether an animal is killed humanely or not, it comes down to guilt. Coping with the fact that another animal has to die to feed you. Everything else is bullshite. Some peoples tolerance of guilt is higher than others in certain areas. But this is the sticking point, the animal doesn't have to die to feed you, you can feed yourself perfectly well without killing them.
sphericalfox Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 But this is the sticking point, the animal doesn't have to die to feed you, you can feed yourself perfectly well without killing them. You're right. I don't have to kill any animal. That's what the abattoir is for.
Captain... Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 You're right. I don't have to kill any animal. That's what the abattoir is for. Ok, no animal has to die for you to be able to feed yourself.
Rincewind Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 W Ok, no animal has to die for you to be able to feed yourself. Thought of HGTTG when I saw this but someones already posted the part I was thinking of. Was Douglas Adams for or against eating animals or was it just his offbeat humour? It's the sort of thing I wish I had written but I am not a great writer like he was. Meant to quote the vid as well.
Manwell Pablo Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 Ok, no animal has to die for you to be able to feed yourself. You have to stop eating them yourself before you can start lecturing other people!
purpleronnie Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 Its difficult to know what to believe one day eggs are good for you the next they aint, just a quick google will show reports that eating meat has no affect on heart disease:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1358523/Red-meat-good-After-warnings-Sunday-roast-linked-heart-disease.html
Captain... Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 You have to stop eating them yourself before you can start lecturing other people! Not lecturing anyone just saying that is the whole argument in a nutshell. Coping with the fact an animal has to die to feed you, anyone, even Oz can cope with that, as it is a necessity, me or the animal, even the most hardened Vegan would kill the animal, but now it is not the case, it is not a case of animals having to die to feed us (exceptions being baby formula for those whose parents can't breast feed, eskimos, etc). We choose to let animals die to feed us, and the question is should we? As SF says tongue in cheek, he doesn't kill any animals the abattoir does, but they kill on his/our behalf.
Manwell Pablo Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 Not lecturing anyone just saying that is the whole argument in a nutshell. Coping with the fact an animal has to die to feed you, anyone, even Oz can cope with that, as it is a necessity, me or the animal, even the most hardened Vegan would kill the animal, but now it is not the case, it is not a case of animals having to die to feed us (exceptions being baby formula for those whose parents can't breast feed, eskimos, etc). We choose to let animals die to feed us, and the question is should we? As SF says tongue in cheek, he doesn't kill any animals the abattoir does, but they kill on his/our behalf. Not how it seemed but fair enough.
Manwell Pablo Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 Its difficult to know what to believe one day eggs are good for you the next they aint, just a quick google will show reports that eating meat has no affect on heart disease:- http://www.dailymail...rt-disease.html Captain Planet doesn't give a F8ck about heart disease anyway. He's just after anything that even vaguely shows eating meat in a bad light to A) Back up his vegan crusade B) keep this topic on the first page of the board so people read his self important opinions. At the end of the day he's a animal rights activist that activiely mis-treats animals, and it's got to the stage where people just take the piss out of him whenever he posts something in here, so it's pointless trying to engage him in a sensible conversation.
Captain... Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 Not how it seemed but fair enough. No worries, busier today, so I'm not going to get into arguments...
Manwell Pablo Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 No worries, busier today, so I'm not going to get into arguments...
OzFox Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 Keep your pussy locked up ozleicester. He's a vicious killer. Scientists from the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute and the Fish and Wildlife Service estimated that domestic cats in the United States kill a median of 2.4 billion birds and 12.3 billion mammals a year The estimated kill rates are two to four times higher than mortality figures previously bandied about, and position the domestic cat as one of the single greatest human-linked threats to wildlife in the nation. More birds and mammals die at the mouths of cats, the report said, than from automobile strikes, pesticides and poisons, collisions with skyscrapers and windmills and other so-called anthropogenic causes. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/science/that-cuddly-kitty-of-yours-is-a-killer.html?_r=0 There's actually a "cat curfew" in parts of Sydney, designed to keep the little fvckers inside between dusk and dawn. Not that cat owners pay any attention to it of course
Rincewind Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 Eating a tub of pasta (non meat) atm. £1 half price from Tesco. Back to carnivore later. A couple of meat pasties.
Manwell Pablo Posted 31 January 2013 Posted 31 January 2013 Keep your pussy locked up ozleicester. He's a vicious killer. Scientists from the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute and the Fish and Wildlife Service estimated that domestic cats in the United States kill a median of 2.4 billion birds and 12.3 billion mammals a year The estimated kill rates are two to four times higher than mortality figures previously bandied about, and position the domestic cat as one of the single greatest human-linked threats to wildlife in the nation. More birds and mammals die at the mouths of cats, the report said, than from automobile strikes, pesticides and poisons, collisions with skyscrapers and windmills and other so-called anthropogenic causes. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/science/that-cuddly-kitty-of-yours-is-a-killer.html?_r=0 There's actually a "cat curfew" in parts of Sydney, designed to keep the little fvckers inside between dusk and dawn. Not that cat owners pay any attention to it of course It's one thing, as a concious human being, to make a decision not to harm animals. You cannot force it upon a creature who is not capable of thought. Cats instinctively hunt, it is nature, they have no choice. If your going to own a animal you have a duty to look after it properly, he clearly doesn't as the body language which he himself has described is that of a cat depressed out of it's tiny mind. Even he knows, this is why everytime it is bought up he ignores it completley or you will see all thought and structure leave the replying post and it will be replaced by a defensive, pedantic, childish remarks and an attempt to drag the conversation back why we're all evil for eating meat.
OzFox Posted 1 February 2013 Posted 1 February 2013 It's one thing, as a concious human being, to make a decision not to harm animals. You cannot force it upon a creature who is not capable of thought. Cats instinctively hunt, it is nature, they have no choice. If your going to own a animal you have a duty to look after it properly, he clearly doesn't as the body language which he himself has described is that of a cat depressed out of it's tiny mind. Even he knows, this is why everytime it is bought up he ignores it completley or you will see all thought and structure leave the replying post and it will be replaced by a defensive, pedantic, childish remarks and an attempt to drag the conversation back why we're all evil for eating meat. I can't vouch for ozleicester's kitty, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a depressed cat. From my observation they seem to spend 20 hours a day sleeping, and the rest of it eating and killing stuff. Looks like quite a nice life. Sure you can't stop them following their instinct and hunting, but you can limit their opportunity. I think that was the idea of the cat curfew here - to keep them away from nocturnal wildlife. Unfortunately it relies on owners to enforce it, and judging by all the pussy activity in my street that ain't happening
ozleicester Posted 1 February 2013 Author Posted 1 February 2013 Number of comments in this topic over the last 2 days OZ - 1.... (or 2 if you include this one) Man Pab - 6................ who's keeping it on the front page? thanks for your help This topic is about and titled "animal rights", ive never accused anyone of being evil fior eating animals... if you feel evil for eating animals, thats your problem not mine. http://www.bps.org.uk/networks-and-communities/groups/member-networks Cat - depressed How absurd, it is healthy, happy and living out its life better than i do...and, isnt out killing for fun....cant really say any of the same for you now can we? note i didnt quote man pab in this, as i didnt want to be accused of dragging him back in
The Doctor Posted 1 February 2013 Posted 1 February 2013 Cat - depressed How absurd, it is healthy, happy and living out its life better than i do...and, isnt out killing for fun....cant really say any of the same for you now can we? Is it actually happy? You're keeping it locked up inside - cats are independent little buggers who's instincts are to explore and to hunt, trying to tell them not to is like telling Lemmy not to be incredibly cool, it's not possible. While we may have domesticated it to some degree, the instincts to hunt are still there, you keeping it locked up is mistreating it.
Manwell Pablo Posted 1 February 2013 Posted 1 February 2013 Number of comments in this topic over the last 2 days OZ - 1.... (or 2 if you include this one) Man Pab - 6................ who's keeping it on the front page? thanks for your help This topic is about and titled "animal rights", ive never accused anyone of being evil fior eating animals... if you feel evil for eating animals, thats your problem not mine. http://www.bps.org.u...member-networks Cat - depressed How absurd, it is healthy, happy and living out its life better than i do...and, isnt out killing for fun....cant really say any of the same for you now can we? note i didnt quote man pab in this, as i didnt want to be accused of dragging him back in You really are tool, I am referring to the fact that every time this drops off you bring back to life with another animal story no one cares about. If you stopped bothering us with this shit this topic would be gone within a week, why don't you give it a go? You've compared meat eaters to Nazi's and the KKK so I'd say that's comparison enough wouldn't you, unless you don't view these groups as evil? If you say so, unfortuantley for you you've already unwittingly told us it's not "doing fine" by describing its daily actions which are classic cat bored out of it's brain behaviour. I really think you should give it to somebody who can look after it properly instead of mis-treating him quite so badly. Thank you for proving my point regarding childish remarks and attempting to draw the conversation back on to meat eating though.
MooseBreath Posted 1 February 2013 Posted 1 February 2013 So his justification for harming an animal is to prevent it from harming other animals? Flawless, absolutely flawless.
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